Killer Cults?

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Capt. said:
If I have read the post wrong then I apologize to nursebeeme. I have reported all that I should legally and withheld all that I legally should. I really have few generalizations to share as most my experience is with this particular group and with past members that want to stay that way. It would be very easy for me to go into depth of the extremes I have heard, seen, or learned, but I see no reason to become a lightening rod for those that think it is unbelievable, plus that's not what this thread is for. Debate is not what I'm after, nor am I trying to make someone believe.

If you would like insight from a survivor of abuse, please go to this site.

http://lynnsart.net
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Capt- If you can, there are those of us on this thread for exactly what you are willing to share, your experience. I personally feel your indepth knowledge is exactly what this thread was designed for. Please don't do the "pillbug"- share:blowkiss:
 
Thanks for sharing that site, Capt. It is fascinating and disturbing. I won't say I don't believe it because after some of the things we have seen on this site alone...the freaks are out there. People doing horrific things we could not imagine before we started studying cases is almost mindboggling. When I swear I have seen all the depravity a human can come up with...another case hits the desk. They are all quite unbelievable before facts come to the surface. Then it just goes directly to sickening.
 
Capt, you are doing right by following procedure with Hippa laws.
Also, if any information you know could put you personally, or your family in harm's way, do not risk it.
 
Another problem is, giving information that can place someone in danger by identifing methods and situations related to that person by others in the group. I'll give what I feel I can give safely for those involved. I am sure if one of the group read what I have wrote so far, they would know I am talking about them. Because this was in a health care situation, I am more concerned with the individuals health than I am trying to solve some crime which if I did, would only be by some "ham fisted" attempt.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching
Welcome to WS, Capt.! You have certainly caught my attention here. I understand the rules, but if you are not discussing specific medically related issues or divulging the origins...you would not be going against HIPAA. Then again, I am not a lawyer.

Generalizing the concept of this widebased cult theory, is it associated with a "hazing" process to prove their loyalty or to enter a cult? Are they professional people (college graduates)? Are they related to colleges in such a way that would put them in contact with the victims besides being in a bar?

I would say most if not all are college graduates and professional people. They do not need the colleges for victims. It is my belief that their own group provides many victims. Might be able to call it hazing after a year or so. More so, I do feel they want the members to "believe" they are guilty of a felony for control over them.
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Sorry if I seemed like I was flaming, capt. When you stated the above it sure came off that you had more specific knowledge....enough to perhaps prevent another crime. I can see, and respect, that you are protecting the trust in your therapeutic relationship.

Sorry again.
 
Okay..let's get real here for just a moment..

We all know that no single individual, or even a pair, could have accomplished this large scale operation on their own over this many years..

I believe that we are looking at a group of individuals who are using this method, so far undetected, as an initiation. Be they cult or gang..they are evil.. and I am still thinking that they are a combo of both..a cult you can never leave..a gang you can never leave..because you have participated in the ultimate horror..killing someone for no reason other then to kill..no social issue, no ethnic issue, no war..just to kill to..and prove that you are one with them.

Sad comment on our world society in general..because I think that if people would look..similiar things are going on around the world.
 
I agree with DD, absolutely. Before I post this, I want to remind all on here that this is a cult theory thread, and I would not post this anywhere but here as a result.
But if your running down the above, meaning working through the theory to either disprove or conclude, and you consider the input on this thread already; we need to entertain the possibility that in all these cases, it is probable that more than one of the victims may have been a previous participant- that's how some of these cults work, they sacrifice one of their own to keep others in line- anybody have any thoughts on that?
 
I agree Blink. These murders of young, intelligent, athletic men who are, by that description alone, a conquest of sorts for this group. To show ultimate control, over the men murdered and the others in the group. And at this point even ultimate control over society and LE as they have not been caught yet. In fact not even detected.

I think it is possible that one or two of the vics knew these people and either chose to leave or not participate..but this is not a group where those are choices. You either chose to belong and belong for life or you are dealt with in a heinous manner.
 
DeltaDawn said:
I agree Blink. These murders of young, intelligent, athletic men who are, by that description alone, a conquest of sorts for this group. To show ultimate control, over the men murdered and the others in the group. And at this point even ultimate control over society and LE as they have not been caught yet. In fact not even detected.

I think it is possible that one or two of the vics knew these people and either chose to leave or not participate..but this is not a group where those are choices. You either chose to belong and belong for life or you are dealt with in a heinous manner.
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I think this happens in these "groups"- it was verified on this thread by a professional. It is the last thing anyone wants to think about but isn't that then how they continue to function undetected??
 
Hmmm...until you mentioned it, Blink...I had not thought of that possibility. I definitely have something to ponder now.
 
I think it also lies in the nights when 2 abductions and murders take place states apart. It is almost like a hit. And either those dates or those individuals have a very specific meaning to this group..otherwise why 2 on one given date?
 
Gangs are getting rather sophisticated even hiring PIs to check up on members:

An established source with excellent internal access to the MS-13 gang reported members are using private investigators to investigate members who are suspected to be cooperating with law enforcement. Purportedly in one case, two MS-13 members hired a private investigator to look into the source of the information for the most recent gang enforcement action in Los Angeles. Information obtained by the private investigator is used to place "green lights" on identified individuals who are working with law enforcement.

~snip~

Documented communication between gang members in El Salvador and the leaders of MS-13 cliques in Maryland, just outside the U.S. capital, suggests a high level of central command as well. As Virginia contains a heavy MS-13 presence in the National Capitol Region it is possible this practice is being utilized in Virginia as well.

http://www.ogia.us/news/ms13.htm
 
DeltaDawn said:
I think it also lies in the nights when 2 abductions and murders take place states apart. It is almost like a hit. And either those dates or those individuals have a very specific meaning to this group..otherwise why 2 on one given date?
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DD- can you say which ones you are referring to? I'm not sure I am following you- are you saying there are 2 murders occurring simultaneously states apart?
 
Hi Blink..yes that is what I mean. Here are some names to start. These are from Shadowraith.
1997-12-31: Ryan Getz, Student, 21, East Lansing, MI [Drowning]
​
1997-12-31: Larry Andrews, N/A, 22, NYC, NY [Drowning]
​
2006-04-01: Wade Michael Lurk, Student, 17, Ste. Genevieve, MO [Drowning]
​
2006-04-01: Brian Shaffer, Student, 27, Columbus, OH
[Missing]


I think Fran has more in her timeline from this year..on the general discussion thread#4, post #241.

I think there are possibly more because the detectives have at times made reference to the fact that /abductions/murders took place states apart on the same date.
​
 
DeltaDawn said:
Hi Blink..yes that is what I mean. Here are some names to start. These are from Shadowraith.
1997-12-31: Ryan Getz, Student, 21, East Lansing, MI [Drowning]
​
1997-12-31: Larry Andrews, N/A, 22, NYC, NY [Drowning]
​
2006-04-01: Wade Michael Lurk, Student, 17, Ste. Genevieve, MO [Drowning]
​
2006-04-01: Brian Shaffer, Student, 27, Columbus, OH
[Missing]


I think Fran has more in her timeline from this year..on the general discussion thread#4, post #241.
​
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Yes, ok, DD- I'm with you, thanks for clarifying for me :)
 
So does anyone have any ideas of a current cult, gang, or group that we might be dealing with? We know that a couple of the members, if we call them that, were in jail from Gannon's appearance on Al Rooney's show on WGY last week. I believe he said they had talked to a couple of the people when they were incarcerated?
 
DeltaDawn said:
So does anyone have any ideas of a current cult, gang, or group that we might be dealing with? We know that a couple of the members, if we call them that, were in jail from Gannon's appearance on Al Rooney's show on WGY last week. I believe he said they had talked to a couple of the people when they were incarcerated?
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UM, creepy-*ss comments from Huff's site:

http://www.4p2.org/

From Huff site, Georgie:

Ok, did some more research on four pi, what the hell IS the smiley face doing on 4p2? This is from rigorousintuition.blogspot.com- On July 13, 1970, CA highway patrol arrested two men on suspicion of hit and run. Stanley Baker and his buddy admiited to fleeing the scene, and also to being cannibals. Human finger bones were found in their pockets, belonging to a victim whose mutilated body was also missing the heart, which Baker said he ate. Get this-"Baker claimed he had been recruited into a neo-Nazi cult while in a Wyoming college, which he identified as the "Four Pi Movement", also known as 4P. It was a splinter of the Process Church, which itself had broken away from the Church of Scientology. The name was derived from the Processean symbol of 4 P's arranged in a stylized Swastika, representing Jehovah, Jesus, Lucifer and Satan. (Members were urged to pick one that they could identify with and devote themselves to that deity). Four P rituals were conducted on the basis of a stellar timetable, including the sacrifice of Doberman and German Shepard dogs." 4p2=Smiley Face gang???

From the same poster, 2 diff sign ins:
~snip~

I get the "Neo Process Church of Final Judgment"
I get the "4p2" "4pi squared"
I get the German shepherd fixation
I get the four pi symbol
I get the "As it is" and "So be it"
I get the "now taking requests for entry"
I get the "Manson2" reference
I get the David Berkowitz symbol

SO WHAT IS THE SMILEY DOING THERE??
(it is the famous red smiley, not the dot-nose smiley's)

Is the a joke site or is this somebody recruiting for four pi?
Whats the deal here? Anybody...~snip~
Nognihc Dnarg Siht Llik Su Tel
 
Blink I am right there speculating with you. I do not think this is gang involvement.

I do believe that this is a cult that is active across the US..that is an off-shoot of The Process and Manson2 and that Berkowitz may know more then he has ever publically revealed.

Berkowitz was part of a satanic cult that was an off-shoot of the Process Church and Mansion2. In the park in their local area they would sacrifice German Shepard dogs. The police locally were aware of this cult and the German Shepard sacrifices. This group is also who was involved in Son of Sam Killings, along with Berkowitz. In the mid to late 90's Berkowitz started to talk to local LE and DA from prison about this group and other things he knew of happening. He was sliced from one side of this neck to the other right after that..yes while still in prison... and has refused for his family's sake to ever talk again about these groups. He fears for their safety. That tells you something. Berkowitz does not want to leave prison..he knows he is safer there then on the streets.

Through this case I have often wondered if the person that was interviewed in prison was Berkowitz. They know he knows alot because he was even able to tell them the dates one of his friends was murdered..it was after he was in jail..the friend was no longer in NY but in the midwest..Wisconsin or Minnesota I believe. This friend and his brother both were members of the same cult. His friend's brother is also dead , of a one vehicle accident........ Berkowitz is in prison in NY.

These people and their warped ideas do exist.

Previously many sites that featured Charles Manson also featured a smiley face...in the last month or two that has been taken off their sites..........Hmmmm.
 
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