Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Were you on the Casey Anthony Jury? Just wondering. Because "feelings" got THAT baby killer set free, too. Glad you're OK with it, though. After all, she was "just" assaulted and killed.

I meant just as in timely not merely. Sorry.

Is there a need to bring The CA case into this? Completely different case.

 

[DeeDee249]

Is it any different from you supposing what J and P were doing? That is not fact if you think they did it, its all supposition. Why do I need to make up facts about what the intruder was doing to believe there was one?

Tell me what evidence you have that P and J were involved? There is none. There is just thoughts, hearsay, impressions.

So Im not going to make up facts because I don't know. Im okay with that.

I don't understand a mind that would do such a thing.

Well for one, fibers from BOTH parents were AT THE CRIME SCENE- on objects associated with the death of their daughter and ONLY that. On the sticky side of the tape (the part against her lips), IN the KNOT of the ligature, INSIDE her panties and in the paint tote that contained the brush end of the broken paintbrush use to wind the cord. This is not hearsay or opinion. This is FACT.
FOUR people came home alive that night. Only three woke up alive the next day.
When that happens, and not just in this case, ALL those who were present in the house at the time are suspects until another suspect is NAMED. That has not happened. There is ZERO evidence of an intruder. The DNA is degraded and useless, and the coroner used unsterile procedures to obtain samples from her nails. DNA from an intruder THAT night would not be degraded. It would be fresh and have enough markers for a full profile.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

It's different because we DO have evidence - and all of the items used in the crime were from their home, used in their home, while they were home!

What evidence?

For you to ask that question, it sounds like you think we just FEEL like they are guilty, and you FEEL they aren't... We shouldn't have to link all the evidence here for you, but you can start at A Candy Rose and see/read for yourself.

Im not trying to be argumentative. Im really not.
Following the case from the beginning I just have never had that "AHA IT was the Ramseys" feeling. NEVER.

They have not shown me evidence that says only the ramseys could have done this.

Im not running away. My battery is dying in my laptop.

I hope I have not offended anyone. That was not my intention.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Sorry. Completely disagree. I don't believe for one minute that JB was abused. I think a lot of parents like to pick on other peoples parenting styles. There are a lot of people that like to jump on the hating bandwagon with popular opinion.

I just don't buy it. I think people want to believe she was a monster. But I think in all the "information" about her as a mother, Most of it is supposition and smear to fit in with the RDI theorist.

Sorry. Til you show my a medical report, an incident report, Something from her school related to abuse, all you have is hearsay and speculation.

You need to go online and look at the videos and photos of the bruises on JonBenet. Look at the inside of her right arm. Not in just one, but in several of the videos you can see old finger bruises. In the same place where Pasty has her hand clenched onto JonBenet arm in the Christmas morning photos.

JonBenet was an abused child.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Is it any different from you supposing what J and P were doing? That is not fact if you think they did it, its all supposition. Why do I need to make up facts about what the intruder was doing to believe there was one?

Tell me what evidence you have that P and J were involved? There is none. There is just thoughts, hearsay, impressions.

So Im not going to make up facts because I don't know. Im okay with that.

I don't understand a mind that would do such a thing.

The facts are all here, keep reading. Most of us have spent well over a decade researching and reading every scrap available on this case.

Sorry I do not understand what you're saying here when you stated..."I don't understand a mind that would do such a thing." Are you talking about those of us that follow this case? Are you talking about sexually assaulting a child? Sexually assaulting and murder?

An opinion reached and held onto with a death grip should be based on more than wishful thinking, don't you think? A true opinion on such matters should only be reached after care consideration of all the evidence. Wouldn't you agree?

It's kinda like saying you believe the world is flat because you can only see to the horizon.


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[OpenMind4U]

Is it any different from you supposing what J and P were doing? That is not fact if you think they did it, its all supposition. Why do I need to make up facts about what the intruder was doing to believe there was one?

Tell me what evidence you have that P and J were involved? There is none. There is just thoughts, hearsay, impressions.

So Im not going to make up facts because I don't know. Im okay with that.

I don't understand a mind that would do such a thing.

Agree with you on this one!!! Therefore, JBR UNSOLVED murder continue to 'fascinate' so many people here and other forums, on TV and radio, among professional experts, writes and LE personnel around the world!!! Like a huge puzzle with hundreds of missing pieces. And many of us (the followers of this 'cold' case) still using our feeling based on the known facts. Yes, sometimes we're 'assuming' and 'speculating' to fill-out these missing pieces. But everyhing what we're discussing here is based on known FACTS. A lot of 'facts' are hidden from the public for the legal and juristiction reasons. So, my advice to you - please get to know the FACTS. Read Ramseys depositions and watch/read their interviews. And you'll learned all Ramsey LIES and contradictions...by reading AR (autopsy report) and it's analysis - you'll learn the sexual side of this crime (the acute and the chronic one)...IMO, the best start is to read PMPT book. And after, go to FFJ and read their 'library'....and after, read ST book....and hopefully, by the time you'll read Kolar's book - your feeling, knowledge and open mind will be in piece with each other....

 

[Whaleshark]

The facts are all here, keep reading. Most of us have spent well over a decade researching and reading every scrap available on this case.

Sorry I do not understand what you're saying here when you stated..."I don't understand a mind that would do such a thing." Are you talking about those of us that follow this case? Are you talking about sexually assaulting a child? Sexually assaulting and murder?

An opinion reached and held onto with a death grip should be based on more than wishful thinking, don't you think? A true opinion on such matters should only be reached after care consideration of all the evidence. Wouldn't you agree?

It's kinda like saying you believe the world is flat because you can only see to the horizon.


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I think Prpl is saying that he/she doen't understand a mind that 'would make up facts when they don't know' ... To answer, or not answer, the question posed about what the intruder had to be doing all the time in the home in-between the head bash and strangling, since it was estimated to be 90-min. apart

 

[Linda7NJ]

I think Prpl is saying that he/she doen't understand a mind that 'would make up facts when they don't know' ... To answer, or not answer, the question posed about what the intruder had to be doing all the time in the home in-between the head bash and strangling, since it was estimated to be 90-min. apart

Ooooooh! I was confused, yes that makes perfect sense. Hard to tell on my phone, it looked like a separate unrelated thought because I believed it was a new paragraph and unrelated to the previous one. Thank you

So my responce to prpl is.....if I go downstairs right now and discover the last piece of pie was eaten, the logical conclusion I will formulate is ...my son or my husband ate it. Three people live here, we're the only ones home, i didn't eat it. I also know the last time I saw that piece of pie was at 9pm. Would it be logical to believe that an intruder ate it?


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[txsvicki]

I think whoever killed jonbenet with the garrotte knew that the old cancer supplies were in jar's room and left the drawers open when getting latex gloves.

 

[OpenMind4U]

Im not trying to be argumentative. Im really not.
Following the case from the beginning I just have never had that "AHA IT was the Ramseys" feeling. NEVER.

They have not shown me evidence that says only the ramseys could have done this.

Im not running away. My battery is dying in my laptop.

I hope I have not offended anyone. That was not my intention.

For sure, you didn't offend me...and to answer your previous question in regards P or J facts of their quilt, I don't know where to start...If I say that both of them are liers - someone would argue with me that they're simply forget the details due to horrific experience. If I say that evidence (fibers) on JBR body is from both Ramsy clothes - someone would argue that it's simply the transfers. Each individual 'fact' could be argued away. But ALL the facts, together point to only one conclusion for me. Today, I cannot tell you FOR SURE which of the Ramsey (Patsy, John, Burke) did which action in that night. I only know FOR SURE: Ramsey (John and Patsy) knows the killer; Ramsey (Patsy and/or John) involved in 'staging'; Ramsey (John and Burke) will never be prosecuted.

 

[Whaleshark]

Ooooooh! I was confused, yes that makes perfect sense. Hard to tell on my phone, it looked like a separate unrelated thought because I believed it was a new paragraph and unrelated to the previous one. Thank you

So my responce to prpl is.....if I go downstairs right now and discover the last piece of pie was eaten, the logical conclusion I will formulate is ...my son or my husband ate it. Three people live here, we're the only ones home, i didn't eat it. I also know the last time I saw that piece of pie was at 9pm. Would it be logical to believe that an intruder ate it?


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I'm on my phone too.... And it was a new paragraph sentence, but I still read it as related, just a definitive associated statement... But she could have been saying a general statement too, about a mind that would do the crime... Could be wrong, but I think it was about supposedly making up facts when u don't know...

And I liked your analogy... Good point. I guess the difference would have to be the one and only supposed piece of intruder evidence - a ransom note - someone needed to ask for ransom for return of the pie... After leaving it there, eaten but only crumbs left, anyway...

 

[OpenMind4U]

I'm on my phone too.... And it was a new paragraph sentence, but I still read it as related, just a definitive associated statement... But she could have been saying a general statement too, about a mind that would do the crime... Could be wrong, but I think it was about supposedly making up facts when u don't know...

And I liked your analogy... Good point. I guess the difference would have to be the one and only supposed piece of intruder evidence - a ransom note - someone needed to ask for ransom for return of the pie... After leaving it there, eaten but only crumbs left, anyway...

...it's how I understood her statement...ooops, I could be wrong......regardless, looks like she/he is honest person. Confused, but honest. I'm sure she didn't mean to say 'just killed and sexually abused' in her previous post....she was refering to 'facts' discussion...JMO

 

[dodie20]

Sorry. Completely disagree. I don't believe for one minute that JB was abused. I think a lot of parents like to pick on other peoples parenting styles. There are a lot of people that like to jump on the hating bandwagon with popular opinion.

I just don't buy it. I think people want to believe she was a monster. But I think in all the "information" about her as a mother, Most of it is supposition and smear to fit in with the RDI theorist.

Sorry. Til you show my a medical report, an incident report, Something from her school related to abuse, all you have is hearsay and speculation.

This went beyond a parenting 'style'. Most of the 'information' came from their friends and from their own selves. A lot of parenting 'style' was going on in that family, and the pageants were the least of their problems. From the evidence I've seen, IMO, there was no intruder., If you know the answers to some of the unanswered questions, I'm willing to listen, and If those answers make sense, and clear the Rs, then so be it. 1st of all, I'd like to know why they changed their stories so much, If there's a logicl explanation, and this has all been a big misunderstanding, I'd like to stop suspecring innocent people, but I'm going to need more than 'a feeling'. BTW, PR, in an early interview, said she thought there were 2 people involved, so that may be where your feeling came from. moo

 

[sandover]

I was PDI for a long time (you can find my old "theory" under members' theories).

Now having studied docg's theory, it is abundantly clear to me that JDI, and in the way he describes.

So overwhelming is his argument that I now believe ALL OTHER THEORIES should be put on hold, since they are almost literally impossible, and we should ALL devote our time to going over the available evidence IN LIGHT OF docg's theory to either improve it or find contradictions that delegitimize it.

I have to say, it saddens me deeply that Kolar's book has given support to BDI, which is not what happened on that horrible night. This is a massive waste of time and energy, the least likely of any of the Ramsey-did-it scenarios.

I urge everyone to immerse themselves in docg's theory. I believe that if you do it with an open heart, you'll see he's right.

I was passionately PDI for a long time and I know it's hard to disinvest a theory you've worked on for years. But it's time we band together and really investigate and examine docg's extraordinary work.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I was PDI for a long time (you can find my old "theory" under members' theories).

Now having studied docg's theory, it is abundantly clear to me that JDI, and in the way he describes.

So overwhelming is his argument that I now believe ALL OTHER THEORIES should be put on hold, since they are almost literally impossible, and we should ALL devote our time to going over the available evidence IN LIGHT OF docg's theory to either improve it or find contradictions that delegitimize it.

I have to say, it saddens me deeply that Kolar's book has given support to BDI, which is not what happened on that horrible night. This is a massive waste of time and energy, the least likely of any of the Ramsey-did-it scenarios.

I urge everyone to immerse themselves in docg's theory. I believe that if you do it with an open heart, you'll see he's right.

I was passionately PDI for a long time and I know it's hard to disinvest a theory you've worked on for years. But it's time we band together and really investigate and examine docg's extraordinary work.

There is no doubt that being a close female relative of JR's carries a high risk of early death.

 

[OpenMind4U]

I was PDI for a long time (you can find my old "theory" under members' theories).

Now having studied docg's theory, it is abundantly clear to me that JDI, and in the way he describes.

So overwhelming is his argument that I now believe ALL OTHER THEORIES should be put on hold, since they are almost literally impossible, and we should ALL devote our time to going over the available evidence IN LIGHT OF docg's theory to either improve it or find contradictions that delegitimize it.

I have to say, it saddens me deeply that Kolar's book has given support to BDI, which is not what happened on that horrible night. This is a massive waste of time and energy, the least likely of any of the Ramsey-did-it scenarios.

I urge everyone to immerse themselves in docg's theory. I believe that if you do it with an open heart, you'll see he's right.

I was passionately PDI for a long time and I know it's hard to disinvest a theory you've worked on for years. But it's time we band together and really investigate and examine docg's extraordinary work.

I could only agree that docg theory has very interesting angles...but IMO he's wrong in regards that John wrote RN. The STYLE, the MANNER of how RN was structured doesn't fit John's psyhological profile. Again, JMO. John is introverted person, CEO, non-emotional, manipulated, cold-head person. He would NEVER write this silly 'War and Piece' epic! His RN would be straight to the point, scary, DIRECTIVE and SHORT! So, IMO, John didn't write this RN. Another thing which I don't agree with docg is 911 call. IMO, the 911 call was played perfectly by the only person who MUST 'perform' this role: Patsy. If John called 911 - it would sounds almost as 'non-urgent' and minimized the 'staging' effort.

You see, all elements of JBR murder case (head blow, strangulation, acute sexual assult) -screams RAGE to me. Now, on apposite site, look at some 'staging' elements (RN, re-dressing, cleaning)...Would you say they have some 'kindness' in them??? However, I still wondering why strangulation (such a cruel method!) was choosen for 'staging': to emphasize the cruelty of the kidnappers or to HIDE something else??? ...nothing is one-dimentional in this puzzle.:banghead:

Bottom line, IMO, JDI is not the right answer for me. JDI theory has as many holes as PDI and BDI...

 

[OpenMind4U]

Silly me...I was asking myself a question for soooo long: why use strangulation for the staging? And just got a possible answer: Ramsey didn't know that JBR head was broken!!! They couldn't see the damage, right? Maybe they (PR or JR or BR) were thinking that JBR NECK was broken?!!!! It was no blood, JBR was in comotose non-responsive condition and they (he, she, whoever) thought: NECK is broken. Hence, strangulation to 'cover' (the reasoning of) the broken neck??!!! What do you think?.....

 

[dodie20]

I was PDI for a long time (you can find my old "theory" under members' theories).

Now having studied docg's theory, it is abundantly clear to me that JDI, and in the way he describes.

So overwhelming is his argument that I now believe ALL OTHER THEORIES should be put on hold, since they are almost literally impossible, and we should ALL devote our time to going over the available evidence IN LIGHT OF docg's theory to either improve it or find contradictions that delegitimize it.

I have to say, it saddens me deeply that Kolar's book has given support to BDI, which is not what happened on that horrible night. This is a massive waste of time and energy, the least likely of any of the Ramsey-did-it scenarios.

I urge everyone to immerse themselves in docg's theory. I believe that if you do it with an open heart, you'll see he's right.

I was passionately PDI for a long time and I know it's hard to disinvest a theory you've worked on for years. But it's time we band together and really investigate and examine docg's extraordinary work.

I've been back and forth so much, I can't rule anybody out. I need something definitive. Actually, PR, seems like the least likely. For her to be guilty, she would have had to possess a horrible temper, a deep seeded rage, and been abusing JBR, in a systematic, and in the weirdest way immaginable. Yes, it's possible, and I can see how that all would lead to murder, (could there be any other conclusion?), but it is a hard scenario to wrap my brain around. But, she sure acted guilty at times, and accepted that she would probably be arrested, and then there's the ransom note, which by all accounts, looks and sounds like her writing. BR, IMO, also acted abnormally, after JBR's death, and his psychological interview, was disturbing, to say the least. But, was this because he was guilty of something, or because he witnessed or knew something, or because he was reacting to being abused too? ...all reasons, that would cause abnormal behavior. But, kids do abuse and kill their younger siblings. I personally know a woman who got married at 15, to get away from her brother, who was consistently raping her. Her parents refused to do a thing about it. My oldest daughter, used to spend a lot of time at her best friend's house. One day, the friend texted and said the police were looking for her sister in law's 16 year old brother, (who spent a lot of time around my daughter and friend). He had raped and then cut his 9 year old, sister's throat, and then ran away. His sister survived, and told the cops. I have no doubt that he had been abusing her, but had reached the point where he needed 'more'...so, he cut her throat. He was sent to juvie, probably because their 'loving'[ parents, refused to cooperate , and begged for mercy. There was no sense in him not being locked up forever. So, it's just plain dumb, to think siblings love each other, and are incapable of murder. But, when I really consider BR a suspect, too many questions are left unanswered. Awhile back, after PR died, I really started thinking about what was logical and most likely, and actually, the most obvious conclusion, doesn't require a lot of 'out there' speculation. I went and read docg's blog, and his theory Does make the most sense. My only problem, is the ransom note. Like I said, I need something definitive. I'd like to see documentation of who all ruled JR out, as the writer.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

...it's how I understood her statement...ooops, I could be wrong......regardless, looks like she/he is honest person. Confused, but honest. I'm sure she didn't mean to say 'just killed and sexually abused' in her previous post....she was refering to 'facts' discussion...JMO

BBM.. Lol.. Thanks! I am confused. Not about how I feel about the case but by all the information and trying to figure what is real and what is not.

For me it goes back to day 1. I just don't see them coming home from a Christmas party and killing their child. Not for a minute. What could have provoked such a thing?

I think there are a lot of theories that grasp at straws. I think people want to wrap it in a neat bow, but I don't see it. The only thing that makes sense to me is an intruder.

 

[Whaleshark]

And again, I think having the intruder 'make the most sense' IS wrapping it in a neat bow...

...not the other way around....

Because since it is harder to 'imagine' them killing her, or what might have happened that night, yes, one has to let go of some innocence and ideals about the perfect family, and deal with reality and possibilities.

no neat bows.