Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I believe they (S's) became quite the Ramsey bulldogs too.

Can you explain this for me? Does this mean they stood up for them? They were clearly their allies? What does this mean?

 

[Darlene733510]

I always thought that it was unusual that PR didn't call the Stines to come to the house that morning.. JR said they were not good friends, but why did they stay at the Stines. Something fishy there, and maybe it is related to DS and BR. SS was Parsy's Pit Bull, that association was really weird. The whole thing reeks of cover up for something we don't know, and will probably never find out about.

 

[Venom]

She became known as the R's public relations "guide."
She also was e mailing several people impersonating Chief Beckner.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

She became known as the R's public relations "guide."
She also was e mailing several people impersonating Chief Beckner.

That is interesting.. Is there proof of the emails? That is a pretty hard thing to fake. You would need his Email addy and all..

I don't see anything wrong with her helping R's out. Some one does not have to be your best friend to stand up for you.

 

[BBB167893]

Nice essay.

It OUGHT to be! I've worked on this for five years.

It is a matter of perspective and nothing more. It is a matter of taking the facts that are real facts and evidence and applying it to the crime. There are more than a few things that play either way. When I look at the total, It adds up to too much doubt to put the R's in the cross hairs. It just is not there.

That's my point, Scarlett. Each single piece of evidence can be argued a lot of different ways, but when you look at the WHOLE thing, it only goes one way. That's what the FBI told the police, btw.

I think it takes character to stand up and be counted when other people just want you to sweep it all in their direction. That is just momentum not forward progress.

Yeah, that's the argument that Dershowitz made. Which should tell you something.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

It OUGHT to be! I've worked on this for five years.



That's my point, Scarlett. Each single piece of evidence can be argued a lot of different ways, but when you look at the WHOLE thing, it only goes one way. That's what the FBI told the police, btw.



Yeah, that's the argument that Dershowitz made. Which should tell you something.

It only goes one way to YOU. It does not to me.

 

[Venom]

That is interesting.. Is there proof of the emails? That is a pretty hard thing to fake. You would need his Email addy and all..

I don't see anything wrong with her helping R's out. Some one does not have to be your best friend to stand up for you.

I'm not making it up. From http://www.acandyrose.com/s-susan-n-glenn-stine.htm

2003-06-04: BPD Press Release: Unlawful e-mails sent under Chief Beckner's name

Wednesday, June 4, 2003
Contact: Mark Beckner, Police, (303) 441-4370
Jodie Carroll, Media Relations, (303) 441-3155
City Web site: www.ci.boulder.co.us

Unlawful e-mails sent under Chief Beckner's name

The Boulder Police Department recently became aware that someone was unlawfully sending e-mails using the name of Chief Beckner. On April 25, 2003, Rocky Mountain News columnist Charlie Brennan received an e-mail titled as being from "Chief Beckner" complementing Mr. Brennan for a recent column he had written on the JonBenet Ramsey case. According to embedded information within the message, the e-mail was sent from a MSN Hotmail account, [email protected]. The e-mail was then signed off with "Regards, Mark." Please see below message text:

From: Chief Beckner [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 1:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Great articles!

Charlie,

Just want you to know I thought those two articles you wrote today were excellent. You got everything right, as you always do.

Thanks for all your support. Eventually, we'll be proven right.

Regards,
Mark

Being skeptical of the message's authenticity, Mr. Brennan telephoned Chief Beckner to ask him about the message. Chief Beckner confirmed that he did not send the message. The Chief was alarmed that someone was apparently using his title and name without authorization to communicate about the JonBenet Ramsey case with members of the media.

Search warrants were obtained and executed for MSN Hotmail in California. According to MSN Hotmail, the [email protected] account was established in 2000. The account creator provided information stating that the owner was "Chief Beckner" from "Boulder, Colorado," and furthermore, provided an accurate birth year for the Chief.

Further investigation led police to the Internet Protocol (IP) numbers from where the suspect had been accessing the [email protected] account. Since early March 2003, all access to the [email protected] account were from a single Netcom (now owned by Earthlink) dial-up account.

A search warrant was obtained and executed for Earthlink in Georgia. According to Earthlink's records, the account holder that has been accessing the [email protected] e-mail account is Susan B. Stine, 5760 Long Grove Drive, Atlanta, Georgia. Susan Stine is known as a close friend of John and Patsy Ramsey and has been interviewed as a witness in reference to the Ramsey investigation.

The search warrants also yielded other messages that had been received by the [email protected] account. A number of these messages indicate that the [email protected] user had been attempting to convince others that he/she was Chief Mark Beckner. Others appeared to be nonsensical. Please note that investigators were able to confirm that the messages to and from Rocky Mountain News reporter Charlie Brennan and Rita Johnson were received/sent by those individuals. The other messages were not confirmed as received or sent by those parties.

At the request of the Boulder Police Department, members of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation (GBI) went to Ms. Stine's residence in an attempt to interview her on June 3, 2003. However, she refused to talk with the GBI agent.

Chief Mark Beckner is alarmed by the discovery that his name and position as Boulder Police Chief has been used in an effort to communicate with others. "Given the history of the Ramsey case and the concerns we have had with information being distributed to the public, often times inaccurate information, this discovery is disturbing," stated Chief Beckner. "I want the media and public to know that if they have received communications from this e-mail address purporting to be me, that it is bogus. My official e-mail address is public and is [email protected]."

Under Colorado law, Criminal Impersonation is a class 6 felony and Impersonating a Police Officer is a Class I Misdemeanor.

The Boulder Police Department and the Boulder County District Attorney's Office have agreed to issue a letter to Susan Stine advising her of the unlawful conduct and that the use of Chief Beckner's name in such a manner must cease immediately. The [email protected] account has been frozen by MSN Hotmail.

The Boulder Police Department would like anyone receiving e-mail messages from any reported member of the Boulder Police Department to know that official e-mail addresses use the members last name and first initial followed by @ci.boulder.co.us. If you are not sure that a message is legitimate, please call the department member to confirm that they did in fact send the message. "We are concerned that there could be other messages out there reportedly from either me or other department members that are fake in an attempt to either receive information or communicate false information," stated Beckner.

On June 3, 2003, Chief Beckner did receive an e-mail from Susan Stine in which she apologized for using the hotmail account, describing it as a sophomoric prank and apologizing for any distress she may have caused.

Anyone with additional information is encouraged to call Boulder Police Detective Jim MacPherson at (303) 441-3330.



It's also talked about here. http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682472/Family Friends

 

[BOESP]

She became known as the R's public relations "guide."
She also was e mailing several people impersonating Chief Beckner.

Impersonating an officer. That's a chargeable offense where I live. Beckner probably considered the source and decided to save his time and the taxpayer's money. I doubt her comments carried any weight with anyone but herself anyway.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I'm not making it up. From http://www.acandyrose.com/s-susan-n-glenn-stine.htm

2003-06-04: BPD Press Release: Unlawful e-mails sent under Chief Beckner's name

Wednesday, June 4, 2003
Contact: Mark Beckner, Police, (303) 441-4370
Jodie Carroll, Media Relations, (303) 441-3155
City Web site: www.ci.boulder.co.us

Unlawful e-mails sent under Chief Beckner's name

The Boulder Police Department recently became aware that someone was unlawfully sending e-mails using the name of Chief Beckner. On April 25, 2003, Rocky Mountain News columnist Charlie Brennan received an e-mail titled as being from "Chief Beckner" complementing Mr. Brennan for a recent column he had written on the JonBenet Ramsey case. According to embedded information within the message, the e-mail was sent from a MSN Hotmail account, [email protected]. The e-mail was then signed off with "Regards, Mark." Please see below message text:

From: Chief Beckner [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 1:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Great articles!

Charlie,

Just want you to know I thought those two articles you wrote today were excellent. You got everything right, as you always do.

Thanks for all your support. Eventually, we'll be proven right.

Regards,
Mark

Being skeptical of the message's authenticity, Mr. Brennan telephoned Chief Beckner to ask him about the message. Chief Beckner confirmed that he did not send the message. The Chief was alarmed that someone was apparently using his title and name without authorization to communicate about the JonBenet Ramsey case with members of the media.

Search warrants were obtained and executed for MSN Hotmail in California. According to MSN Hotmail, the [email protected] account was established in 2000. The account creator provided information stating that the owner was "Chief Beckner" from "Boulder, Colorado," and furthermore, provided an accurate birth year for the Chief.

Further investigation led police to the Internet Protocol (IP) numbers from where the suspect had been accessing the [email protected] account. Since early March 2003, all access to the [email protected] account were from a single Netcom (now owned by Earthlink) dial-up account.

A search warrant was obtained and executed for Earthlink in Georgia. According to Earthlink's records, the account holder that has been accessing the [email protected] e-mail account is Susan B. Stine, 5760 Long Grove Drive, Atlanta, Georgia. Susan Stine is known as a close friend of John and Patsy Ramsey and has been interviewed as a witness in reference to the Ramsey investigation.

The search warrants also yielded other messages that had been received by the [email protected] account. A number of these messages indicate that the [email protected] user had been attempting to convince others that he/she was Chief Mark Beckner. Others appeared to be nonsensical. Please note that investigators were able to confirm that the messages to and from Rocky Mountain News reporter Charlie Brennan and Rita Johnson were received/sent by those individuals. The other messages were not confirmed as received or sent by those parties.

At the request of the Boulder Police Department, members of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation (GBI) went to Ms. Stine's residence in an attempt to interview her on June 3, 2003. However, she refused to talk with the GBI agent.

Chief Mark Beckner is alarmed by the discovery that his name and position as Boulder Police Chief has been used in an effort to communicate with others. "Given the history of the Ramsey case and the concerns we have had with information being distributed to the public, often times inaccurate information, this discovery is disturbing," stated Chief Beckner. "I want the media and public to know that if they have received communications from this e-mail address purporting to be me, that it is bogus. My official e-mail address is public and is [email protected]."

Under Colorado law, Criminal Impersonation is a class 6 felony and Impersonating a Police Officer is a Class I Misdemeanor.

The Boulder Police Department and the Boulder County District Attorney's Office have agreed to issue a letter to Susan Stine advising her of the unlawful conduct and that the use of Chief Beckner's name in such a manner must cease immediately. The [email protected] account has been frozen by MSN Hotmail.

The Boulder Police Department would like anyone receiving e-mail messages from any reported member of the Boulder Police Department to know that official e-mail addresses use the members last name and first initial followed by @ci.boulder.co.us. If you are not sure that a message is legitimate, please call the department member to confirm that they did in fact send the message. "We are concerned that there could be other messages out there reportedly from either me or other department members that are fake in an attempt to either receive information or communicate false information," stated Beckner.

On June 3, 2003, Chief Beckner did receive an e-mail from Susan Stine in which she apologized for using the hotmail account, describing it as a sophomoric prank and apologizing for any distress she may have caused.

Anyone with additional information is encouraged to call Boulder Police Detective Jim MacPherson at (303) 441-3330.



It's also talked about here. http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682472/Family Friends

I did not think you were making it up, I just wanted to know if it was factual or rumor. Thanks for the information..

That is quite something.. takes chutzpah to attempt such a thing. And stupidity.

Thanks for the post with all the info. Much appreciated.

 

[Chelly]

Interesting that you posted this Venom. I just spent the last 15 minutes reading through old posts here with the word "lies" in the heading. Under one of the posts there is a cut and paste for one of John Ramsey's interviews. It concerns him answering questions about who was in the Ramsey circle of friends. He specifically states that the Stines, both Susan and her husband, were not close friends of the Ramseys. They were more like acquaintances, or less, according to John's statements.

Isn't that odd the Ramseys would stay at the Stines several nights right after JonBenet's death when they didn't consider the Stines as friends? Iirc, John Ramsey even gave Mr. Stine a job in Georgia after the Ramseys left Colorado.

Really odd behavior to have to stay with non-friends when John gave such a long list of their genuine friends.

Odd and interesting. Even more odd and interesting after the murder, Susan Stein became PR's bulldog.
But, Before the murder, the Stine's son played with JB and BR.........................

 

[i.b.nora]

The Stines were the last people to see JonBenet alive when the Ramseys stopped by their house to drop off a gift on their way home from the party at the Whites.

Also, the Whites had a houseful of relatives during that Christmas holiday which might be one of the reasons why the Ramseys did not stay with them.

 

[Chelly]

The Stines were the last people to see JonBenet alive when the Ramseys stopped by their house to drop off a gift on their way home from the party at the Whites.

Also, the Whites had a houseful of relatives during that Christmas holiday which might be one of the reasons why the Ramseys did not stay with them.

Always thought it odd that the R's would bunk with the Stines in that small house for so long especially when the R's owned a condo not far away they could have lived in.

 

[i.b.nora]

Always thought it odd that the R's would bunk with the Stines in that small house for so long especially when the R's owned a condo not far away they could have lived in.

The Ramsey's owned a condo nearby??? What? Where? Do you have a link? I have no memory of them owning a condo there. Oh wait, Donald Paugh's condo? Did they own it, or just rent it? I will need to refresh my memory.

EDIT: Nevermind. Found the info I was questioning here:

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-donald-nedra-paugh.htm

 

[BOESP]

The Stines were the last people to see JonBenet alive when the Ramseys stopped by their house to drop off a gift on their way home from the party at the Whites.

Also, the Whites had a houseful of relatives during that Christmas holiday which might be one of the reasons why the Ramseys did not stay with them.

Thanks for the suggestion on the White's full house. I understand and agree that makes sense.

I don't understand why the Stines being the last stop the Ramseys made before going home the night of the 25th has anything to do with the Ramseys staying days on end with the Stines. John Ramsey was plain and firm that the Stines were not in their circle of friends (although, imo, the Ramseys behavior shows otherwise). Could you give us your thoughts on your above statement? TIA

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I don't think it is odd they stayed with the stines. One does not have to be friends with someone to take them up on their kindness in a time of need.

I think it may have been a good place for them to feel safe and yet not intruded upon.

 

[Venom]

Thanks for the suggestion on the White's full house. I understand and agree that makes sense.

I don't understand why the Stines being the last stop the Ramseys made before going home the night of the 25th has anything to do with the Ramseys staying days on end with the Stines. John Ramsey was plain and firm that the Stines were not in their circle of friends (although, imo, the Ramseys behavior shows otherwise). Could you give us your thoughts on your above statement? TIA

There's a theory of someone linked to the S's who may have been involved.

 

[i.b.nora]

Thanks for the suggestion on the White's full house. I understand and agree that makes sense.

I don't understand why the Stines being the last stop the Ramseys made before going home the night of the 25th has anything to do with the Ramseys staying days on end with the Stines. John Ramsey was plain and firm that the Stines were not in their circle of friends (although, imo, the Ramseys behavior shows otherwise). Could you give us your thoughts on your above statement? TIA

Well, I don't really know why they stayed "days on end" with the Stines. And John seemed to act dumb most of the time regarding what he knew and didn't know. They may not have been best friends with the Stines, but the Stines had been to their Christmas party that year and Burke was the same age, and in the same grade at the same school as the Stine's son. I think the kids were best friends, for a while at least. So, the families did socialize some, even though John didn't seem to understand what the idea of socializing meant apparently.

Whatever the situation was prior to the murder of JonBenet, it didn't take long for the Stines and the Ramseys to beome fast friends after the murder.

From A Candy Rose at: http://www.acandyrose.com/s-susan-n-glenn-stine.htm

Video Deposition of John Ramsey October 20, 1998

Page 81
"2 Q. What were the circumstances under which you met
3 the Stine family?
4 A. I think it was probably through school. Doug
5 and Burke were the same age, same class, same grade, and
6 that's probably where we met.
7 Q. Since the tragedy, you've stayed in other
8 families' homes other than your former home on 15th
9 Street; is that correct?
10 A. Uh-huh.
11 Q. Whose homes have you stayed in?
12 A. We stayed in Jay Elowsky's home for a period of
13 time. We've stayed in the Stines'. Both of those were
14 for extended periods. We've stayed at people's houses,
15 you know, a day or the two at a time.
16 Q. Who would that include?
17 A. Well, the Westmorelands in Atlanta for a few
18 days; my brother's house; my parents-in-law's home.
19 Q. Where is that?
20 A. It's in Atlanta.
21 Q. Anyone else?
22 A. We stayed at Byron Chrisman's condominium at
23 Snowmass -- not Snowmass, Streamboat for a few days. We

 

[otg]

Thanks for the suggestion on the White's full house. I understand and agree that makes sense.

I don't understand why the Stines being the last stop the Ramseys made before going home the night of the 25th has anything to do with the Ramseys staying days on end with the Stines. John Ramsey was plain and firm that the Stines were not in their circle of friends (although, imo, the Ramseys behavior shows otherwise). Could you give us your thoughts on your above statement? TIA

BOESP, I know the question wasn't posed to me, but the Ramsey/Stine connection has always fascinated me. Not that I have any answers -- just questions.

Why did JR deny any closeness with the Stines, yet he and Patsy had gone on a trip to New York with them just before JonBenet's death without any kids? In fact, IIRC, this trip happened while JonBenet was in the Christmas parade in Boulder, and it caused them to miss it. Does anyone here go on out-of-town, overnight trips with another couple, leaving their kids behind to be looked after by someone else, that they're "not close with"?

The Stine house was the last stop for present drops on Christmas night before they went home for the night. No one seemed to be able to remember if BR went to the door or not, even though JR claimed the only connection was that BR and DS were "buddies" (JR's words).

Why was everyone and their cousin called over to the "Ramsey Kidnapping Party" -- except for the Stines?

If the Stines were not in their inner circle of friends, why would they choose their house to stay at after the BPD told them not to leave town?

When BR was sent back to school, why did they choose the pitbull to escort the kids back and forth?

Why would the pitbull risk jail time for herself in her attempts to sway public opinion by impersonating a police officer (the Chief yet), or to get back at a reporter by stealing his ID and refusing to return it until the police told her she had to?

And of course, why would both of the Stines quit their jobs with the university to follow the Ramseys to Atlanta?

Like I say... I don't have the answers -- just lots of questions.

 

[BOESP]

There's a theory of someone linked to the S's who may have been involved.

Thanks, Venom. I'm familiar with that theory. :wink:

So, if I am reading you correctly, you are saying that you think John Ramsey's "we aren't friends of the Stines" could be a statement to create distance between the two couples?

 

[BOESP]

BOESP, I know the question wasn't posed to me, but the Ramsey/Stine connection has always fascinated me. Not that I have any answers -- just questions.

Why did JR deny any closeness with the Stines, yet he and Patsy had gone on a trip to New York with them just before JonBenet's death without any kids? In fact, IIRC, this trip happened while JonBenet was in the Christmas parade in Boulder, and it caused them to miss it. Does anyone here go on out-of-town, overnight trips with another couple, leaving their kids behind to be looked after by someone else, that they're "not close with"?

The Stine house was the last stop for present drops on Christmas night before they went home for the night. No one seemed to be able to remember if BR went to the door or not, even though JR claimed the only connection was that BR and DS were "buddies" (JR's words).

Why was everyone and their cousin called over to the "Ramsey Kidnapping Party" -- except for the Stines?

If the Stines were not in their inner circle of friends, why would they choose their house to stay at after the BPD told them not to leave town?

When BR was sent back to school, why did they choose the pitbull to escort the kids back and forth?

Why would the pitbull risk jail time for herself in her attempts to sway public opinion by impersonating a police officer (the Chief yet), or to get back at a reporter by stealing his ID and refusing to return it until the police told her she had to?

And of course, why would both of the Stines quit their jobs with the university to follow the Ramseys to Atlanta?

Like I say... I don't have the answers -- just lots of questions.

otg, your post is something we both can agree on. I see it exactly as you see it and I find it really stupid behavior for John Ramsey to act like he barely knew the Stines, so much so that Ramsey said he knew it sounded odd but they weren't in the Ramseys circle of friends (my paraphrasing).

That bit about following the Ramseys to Atlanta is strange.