Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

[questfortrue]

There is good evidence to suggest that Burke’s testimony before the grand jury was strictly video testimony and that is the way I have always understood it to be.
(There is also some evidence to suggest that it may well have only been portions of his 1998 interview that was played for the jury.)

Kolar doesn’t reveal the method of testimony:
The Boulder Grand Jury was reported to have ended their spring session of 1999 not long after hearing the testimony of Burke Ramsey, JonBenét’s brother, who was 9-years-old at the time of the murder.
Jurors took a summer hiatus of nearly 4 months after their May 25th meeting.

This article is very illuminating:
An attorney representing JonBenét Ramsey's 12-year-old brother reportedly is in town working out a deal to clear the boy's name or arrange a new interview with him that could provide additional information to the grand jury investigating JonBenét's 1996 slaying, according to media reports.
Jim Jenkins, an Atlanta attorney representing Burke Ramsey, is believed to be in negotiations with the Boulder County District Attorney's Office trying to protect his client from having to testify before the grand jury, KOA radio reported. Another report said Jenkins was trying to get the district attorney to clear Burke as a suspect.
Neither report could not be confirmed as of Wednesday night.
Jenkins did not return phone calls, but his wife said he was called out of Atlanta for a business trip for several days.
Jenkins also represents two older Ramsey children, Melinda and John Andrew Ramsey, who are among the few people cleared of the crime.
The grand jury met Wednesday for the first time in two weeks.
The meeting was unusual in that it fell on a Wednesday — the panel usually convenes on Tuesday and Thursdays — and lasted a full day, something that hasn't happened since mid-April.
According to one source, the meeting originally was scheduled for May 11 and then bumped to May 13 for unknown reasons. Prosecutors again rescheduled the session to Tuesday, the source said, and then pushed it up to today, before finally settling on Wednesday.
JonBenét, 6, was found beaten and strangled in the basement of her parents' Boulder home Dec. 26, 1996. Although her parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, remain under suspicion, they maintain their innocence.
Their son, Burke, has been interviewed by investigators at least three times since his sister's death, including a six hour interview last June by Broomfield police Sgt. Dan Schuler. Schuler, a 25-year veteran of the Broomfield police department and specialist in juvenile cases, has a master's degree in psychology and counseling.
Although at least some of those interviews were video-taped and could be shown to the grand jury in lieu of direct testimony, the panel may have new questions about the case since beginning its investigation in September.
Burke was the subject of wide-spread media attention last week after a tabloid reported that he was the focus of the grand jury investigation and that attorneys were working out a plea bargain with his parents. The Ramseys' attorneys and District Attorney Alex Hunter said those reports were false.
Investigators believe Burke's voice might be audible in a 911 recording of Patsy Ramsey's frantic call to police the day JonBenét purportedly was kidnapped and later found dead.
That would conflict with statements by John and Patsy Ramsey that Burke was asleep when the call was made, officials have said.
May 20, 1999
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:5TcUZBeLKlgJ:web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1999/20crmsy.html+&cd=12&hl=en


There is also this:
Witnesses who testified before the Ramsey grand jury include:
* Burke Ramsey, JonBenet's 14-year-old brother, by video

* John Andrew Ramsey and Melinda Ramsey Long, John Ramsey's adult children from previous marriage

* Lou Smit, former Colorado Springs homicide detective

* Susan Stine, friend of the Ramseys

* Ellis Armistead, investigator hired by the Ramseys Linda Arndt, former Boulder detective

* Craig Lewis, editor at "The Globe," was called to testify, but was exempted due to Fifth amendment and his defense in another related lawsuit. Witnesses who may have testified include:

* Glenn Stine, friend of the Ramseys

* Tom and Enid Schantz, owners of Rue Morgue Mystery Bookshop in Boulder

* Richard French, Boulder police officer

* Boulder police detectives Jim Byfield, Jane Harmer, Tom Trujillo, Michael Everett, Carey Weinheimer and Ron Gosage

* Steve Ainsworth, Boulder County sheriff's detective : Linda Hoffmann-Pugh said she believes the grand jury that investigated the beauty queen's death was focusing on the girl's mother.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:npxn_MNBzmIJ:www.rense.com/general11/benet.htm+&cd=1&hl=en

I don't know if this information is accurate or not, but from the Post reporter Marilyn Robinson was this:\
Victim's brother, 12, questioned
By Marilyn Robinson
Denver Post Staff Writer

May 26 - Twelve-year-old Burke Ramsey was secretly questioned last week by the grand jury investigating his sister JonBenet's death. The next day, Boulder authorities publicly reaffirmed that he's not a suspect, only a witness.

Burke, 9 years old when his sister's body was found beaten and strangled in the basement of her parents' Boulder home in 1996, was subpoenaed to appear before the 12 grand jurors last Wednesday, according to a 9News report from Paula Woodward. His attorney, Atlanta-based Jim Jenkins, also attended the hearing, but the questions came only from the jurors, Woodward reported.

Burke's parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, could have contested the subpoena but did not.

The Boulder District Attorney's office declined comment.

It makes me wonder why the R's did not contest BR subpoena. Is this a factual report?

 

[SapphireSteel]

I don't know if this information is accurate or not, but from the Post reporter Marilyn Robinson was this:\
Victim's brother, 12, questioned
By Marilyn Robinson
Denver Post Staff Writer

May 26 - Twelve-year-old Burke Ramsey was secretly questioned last week by the grand jury investigating his sister JonBenet's death. The next day, Boulder authorities publicly reaffirmed that he's not a suspect, only a witness.

Burke, 9 years old when his sister's body was found beaten and strangled in the basement of her parents' Boulder home in 1996, was subpoenaed to appear before the 12 grand jurors last Wednesday, according to a 9News report from Paula Woodward. His attorney, Atlanta-based Jim Jenkins, also attended the hearing, but the questions came only from the jurors, Woodward reported.

Burke's parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, could have contested the subpoena but did not.

The Boulder District Attorney's office declined comment.

It makes me wonder why the R's did not contest BR subpoena. Is this a factual report?

The only reason they would not contest was if they were happy for Burke to talk.

The only reason they would be happy for Burke to talk is if they know he doesn't know anything.

:twocents:

 

[UKGuy]

The only reason they would not contest was if they were happy for Burke to talk.

The only reason they would be happy for Burke to talk is if they know he doesn't know anything.

:twocents:

SapphireSteel,
If BR knows zilch, then why are the GJ bothering to question a child who slept through a kidnapping and murder?

BR knows if JonBenet walked into the house on 12/25/1996 and if she snacked pineapple?

He was there, he might even have been in JonBenet's bedroom, not an uncommon occurrence?

The big Q is did the parents take a hit in public to prevent BR being accused of murder?

.

 

[cynic]

I don't know if this information is accurate or not, but from the Post reporter Marilyn Robinson was this:\
Victim's brother, 12, questioned
By Marilyn Robinson
Denver Post Staff Writer

May 26 - Twelve-year-old Burke Ramsey was secretly questioned last week by the grand jury investigating his sister JonBenet's death. The next day, Boulder authorities publicly reaffirmed that he's not a suspect, only a witness.

Burke, 9 years old when his sister's body was found beaten and strangled in the basement of her parents' Boulder home in 1996, was subpoenaed to appear before the 12 grand jurors last Wednesday, according to a 9News report from Paula Woodward. His attorney, Atlanta-based Jim Jenkins, also attended the hearing, but the questions came only from the jurors, Woodward reported.

Burke's parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, could have contested the subpoena but did not.

The Boulder District Attorney's office declined comment.

It makes me wonder why the R's did not contest BR subpoena. Is this a factual report?

Tough to say what's reliable and what's not with respect to anything to do with the GJ because no one in an authoritative position ever comments to affirm or deny.
The one thing that causes me grave concern about this particular report is the name Paula Woodward. She was and is a notorious Ramsey super shill.

 

[SapphireSteel]

SapphireSteel,
If BR knows zilch, then why are the GJ bothering to question a child who slept through a kidnapping and murder?

BR knows if JonBenet walked into the house on 12/25/1996 and if she snacked pineapple?

He was there, he might even have been in JonBenet's bedroom, not an uncommon occurrence?

The big Q is did the parents take a hit in public to prevent BR being accused of murder?

.

At the end of the day, BR was present in the house, so of course he would be questioned. He is/was a witness, even if he didn't see anything. He could also confirm the day's events, eg, we drove here, we drove there.

I fail to see why the Ramseys would go to any effort at all to protect one child, when they staged, throttled and dressed up the other child as she lay dying.

It just isn't consistent.

They would have fought tooth and claw to keep B out of the witness stand if they thought he had any idea about what they'd done.

:cow:

Of course all opinion.

 

[UKGuy]

At the end of the day, BR was present in the house, so of course he would be questioned. He is/was a witness, even if he didn't see anything. He could also confirm the day's events, eg, we drove here, we drove there.

I fail to see why the Ramseys would go to any effort at all to protect one child, when they staged, throttled and dressed up the other child as she lay dying.

It just isn't consistent.

They would have fought tooth and claw to keep B out of the witness stand if they thought he had any idea about what they'd done.

:cow:

Of course all opinion.

At the end of the day, BR was present in the house, so of course he would be questioned. He is/was a witness, even if he didn't see anything. He could also confirm the day's events, eg, we drove here, we drove there.

All that had already been done, i.e. the routine question and answer session via the various interviewers.

I fail to see why the Ramseys would go to any effort at all to protect one child, when they staged, throttled and dressed up the other child as she lay dying.

Possibly because its the only child left?

They would have fought tooth and claw to keep B out of the witness stand if they thought he had any idea about what they'd done.

Not if there was a deal to cite BR as a witness, his failure to appear might end up with him being described as a suspect? His attorney allegedly was going to court prevent any GJ appearance and have BR cited as a witness.

Thats the point maybe he does!

.

 

[DeeDee249]

cynic (or anyone, if they can clarify),

I believe the last date is incorrect. BR testimony was presented in May, 1999. Only reason for pointing that out is to not leave anyone with the misconception that he was questioned again by someone in the DA's office after his GJ appearance.

Also, I've seen different references that make it unclear whether BR's GJ testimony was actually in person, or if it was videotaped prior to the GJ seeing it with "pre-approved" questions. Do we know for sure which is the case, or is this something open to interpretation that we may only find out after Charlie Brennan wins his challenge to the GJ secrecy lease:?

BR did not testify before the GJ in person. He testified by videotape. We do not know whether he had the questions in advance or if they were pre-approved. Usually, people are not permitted to have an attorney present during GJ testimony. But in the case of a minor it may be different. We also do not know (at least I do not know) whether he had parents, attorneys or both present.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

At the end of the day, BR was present in the house, so of course he would be questioned. He is/was a witness, even if he didn't see anything. He could also confirm the day's events, eg, we drove here, we drove there.

I fail to see why the Ramseys would go to any effort at all to protect one child, when they staged, throttled and dressed up the other child as she lay dying.
It just isn't consistent.

They would have fought tooth and claw to keep B out of the witness stand if they thought he had any idea about what they'd done.

:cow:

Of course all opinion.

Perhaps the R's weren't really so much protecting their one remaining (living) child as they were hiding the years of abuse that JBR suffered. And they were the parents who should've been protecting her from this. They were hiding BR's quirkiness for so long that it was a force of habit. The R's kept secrets. No one was to find out how dysfunctional everyone was in that household. Keeping the secrets were paramount day in and day out. It was the force to be reckoned with. Secret-keeping became the daily goal. Pagaent Queen PR knew all about tidying up appearances to make things look a lot better. And it worked for her for a while. She focused on that and put her energies into that mindset all the time. She created illusions and she may have eventually believed in them too. Her skills were finely honed as far back as her young teen in West Virginia.

Illusions can quickly become delusions.

Despite the crime-scene staging (paintbrush) JBR still showed interstitial skin trauma to her sexual region as well as a repetitive history to her Dr's for urinary tract infections.

moo

 

[gramcracker]

Burke's parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, could have contested the subpoena but did not.

The Boulder District Attorney's office declined comment.

It makes me wonder why the R's did not contest BR subpoena. Is this a factual report?

they allowed the CPS interview only because CPS could take BR from the home and investigate the family dynamic (and maybe decide to keep him) if they refused to comply. would there be similar pressure here, because GJ witnesses are subpoena'd? (someone can also request to appear before a GJ, but surely BR did not). I don't think the Rs were unconcerned about his testimony because BR didn't know anything. I think if they were unconcerned it was because time had passed and he was older and had a better understooding of what was at stake, and was even more distanced from the event emotionally than he was in the CPS interview (if that is possible). this family was in the habit of spinning and keeping secrets: JR saying in a TV interview that he was unaware of any bedwetting issues vs having said to the housekeeper "could you change her bed? She's wet it again."

IA that our cynic is right about the "no contest" being spin via the notorious super shill Woodward. tip o' the hat to cynic for finding this as well:

Their son, Burke, has been interviewed by investigators at least three times since his sister's death, including a six hour interview last June by Broomfield police Sgt. Dan Schuler. Schuler, a 25-year veteran of the Broomfield police department and specialist in juvenile cases, has a master's degree in psychology and counseling.

Although at least some of those interviews were video-taped and could be shown to the grand jury in lieu of direct testimony, the panel may have new questions about the case since beginning its investigation in September.

... including a six hour interview last June? arranged by whom? the Rs? Jim Jenkins, BR's atty? the GJ? the date on that article is May '99 so "last June" would be in '98. we know the other two interviews were with Detective Patterson on Dec 26, 1996 at about 2:30pm at FW's house and with child psychologist Dr Bernhard on January 8, 1997 at BPD headquarters. the Patterson interview was very short, basically just verifying that BR didn't know anything because he never woke up

Seven decades of combined service to Broomfield were feted on Tuesday as the Broomfield Police Department honored two of its own for 35 years of service.

Cmdr. Tim Hersee and Court Security Officer Dan Schuler were recognized at a ceremony at police headquarters.

Schuler began his career with the Broomfield Police Department on Oct. 1, 1974 as a youth services officer, before becoming a well-respected detective in the area of crimes against juveniles. He retired from the Police Department in 2004 as a sergeant, and later re-joined the department as a court security officer assigned to the Court Security Unit.

Deland commented that "Schuler's work as a detective working crimes against juveniles resulted in hundreds of suspects who committed horrible crimes against juveniles being brought to justice."

http://www.broomfieldenterprise.com...619/broomfield-pd-honors-two-35-years-service

Broomfield is about 15 miles from Boulder. I guess Broomfield had a juvenile specialist while Boulder did not? I wonder who decided to go outside Boulder, and why. the "crimes against juveniles" angle piques my interest

when BPD declared the house a crime scene just before 2pm (and told JR he couldn't fly to Atlanta) Detective Sgt Mason wanted the Rs and their friends to go to the Holiday Inn so they could be questioned in separate rooms. they all refused, and a patrol car took the Rs to the Fernie house while BR remained at the White house for a few more hours. Mike Bynum, JR's close friend and corporate atty, came to the Fernie house a little after 5pm. JR/John Fernie/Dr Beuf went for a walk around 7pm and they were gone for half an hour. when they came back JR asked Bynum to represent him. the first time I read that I remember thinking it was hinky not only that the decision to hire counsel was made just hours after finding JB's body but also that it was done during a conversation where said counsel was not included, but Dr Beuf was. then at about 8pm JR went for another walk, by himself. what I wouldn't give for some phone records! (there was an attempt to re-write history by claiming that deciding to hire an atty happened much later and only because BPD wasn't playing nice)

 

[Venom]

<snipped>when BPD declared the house a crime scene just before 2pm (and told JR he couldn't fly to Atlanta) Detective Sgt Mason wanted the Rs and their friends to go to the Holiday Inn so they could be questioned in separate rooms. they all refused, and a patrol car took the Rs to the Fernie house while BR remained at the White house for a few more hours. Mike Bynum, JR's close friend and corporate atty, came to the Fernie house a little after 5pm. JR/John Fernie/Dr Beuf went for a walk around 7pm and they were gone for half an hour. when they came back JR asked Bynum to represent him. the first time I read that I remember thinking it was hinky not only that the decision to hire counsel was made just hours after finding JB's body but also that it was done during a conversation where said counsel was not included, but Dr Beuf was. then at about 8pm JR went for another walk, by himself. what I wouldn't give for some phone records! (there was an attempt to re-write history by claiming that deciding to hire an atty happened much later and only because BPD wasn't playing nice)

BBM-That, in my opinion, speaks volumes. Who REFUSES to be questioned when their daughter is found dead in their house?

:twocents:and:moo:

 

[daisymae]

My opinion is and always will be BR. I don't think he will ever be able to lead a normal life carrying around the guilt he must feel knowing he accidentally killed his sister. The kids were downstairs snooping at the presents, parents upstairs sleeping, now, if there weren't sexual overtones in this case, I would say the kids got into a fight and BR pushed her and she came at him and he hit her with something over the head.
However, because of the sexual overtones, BR may have tried to rape her, or had been successful in the past but this time she started screaming and he hits her to stop the screaming. He runs upstairs to get his father and then the cover up begins.
I am completely new at this particular JBR forum therefore I haven't been saturated with all of the evidence. First picture in my opinion, perfectly normal beautiful child photo. Second shot, years later, not so normal. I don't know what the photographer was trying to accomplish with this rather sexualized brother sister photo.
View attachment 37749

View attachment 37750

About thee 2 photos. I'm just not seeing anything sexualized in them like some of you. If these were your neighbors kids or your grandchildren, would you still feel the same? IMO I see a little girl who loves her big brother and think they are very sweet photos. If the situation was different and they were my family photos, I'd proudly display them on the mantel.

 

[Linda7NJ]

About thee 2 photos. I'm just not seeing anything sexualized in them like some of you. If these were your neighbors kids or your grandchildren, would you still feel the same? IMO I see a little girl who loves her big brother and think they are very sweet photos. If the situation was different and they were my family photos, I'd proudly display them on the mantel.

I agree.


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[LinasK]

About thee 2 photos. I'm just not seeing anything sexualized in them like some of you. If these were your neighbors kids or your grandchildren, would you still feel the same? IMO I see a little girl who loves her big brother and think they are very sweet photos. If the situation was different and they were my family photos, I'd proudly display them on the mantel.

Look at the second photo where Burke is in a suit and she is in a wedding gown. Very inappropriate to be in a wedding gown first of all, then look at their pouty facial expressions and the way they are posed with Burke's arms around her and her leaning against him as if they were a teenage couple. This all is what is sexual about this photo. It's just creepy for a family shot, IMO!!

 

[Cailin Rua]

I've never seen that second picture. It looks to me like the cover of Flowers in the Attic. :scared: The makeup, the way she's draped across him, it's just wrong. Neither of them looks happy and Burke looks especially miserable.

Now, when you are photographing anyone, and especially kids, you may just chance on catching a moment like that that really looks "off." But you have to ask yourself what kind of family thinks that's an awesome picture of their young children?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Here are some other...interesting...photos from that same shoot. BTW, Nedra was there.

Sources: http://candycane121.webs.com http://sweetlittlejonbenet.webs.com
http://www.freewebs.com/jonbenet-ramsey-gallery

Is it just a coincidence that this family takes these photos, that are very different from your average family photoshoot, and then their daughter ends up murdered (at one of their hands IMO) about a month later?

 

[Linda7NJ]

I just don't see anything nefarious. Kinda artsy. Nothing disgusting IMO


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[daisymae]

I just don't see anything nefarious. Kinda artsy. Nothing disgusting IMO


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i don't either. All the photos were of the same theme. Mom and daughter were beautifully dressed and looked lovely. IMO I still don't see anything sexual, FWIW. :seeya:

 

[otg]

Here are some other...interesting...photos from that same shoot. BTW, Nedra was there.

You bet she was:

BTW, Judith Phillips, who took this photo (and some of the others) <modsnip>. She posted the following about this particular photo shoot:

It was interesting doing the photo shoot of Patsy and all. I instruct my clients to wear whatever is comfortable and they plan the image they wish to project on film. When Patsy walked into the studio, I was a bit surprised at her outfit and those of Burke, Nedra and JB. I don't recall anyone else that I have ever photographed for the Motherhood book that showed up dressed to the hilt like the Ramsey family. Just an interesting observation.

[ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?p=137607#post137607"]New Globe is Out!! Top Forensic Expert- Mom Did it! - Page 13 - Forums For Justice[/ame]

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I just don't see anything nefarious. Kinda artsy. Nothing disgusting IMO


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I just find it strange that a 5 or 6 year old girl would have as much makeup and hair attention done as her mother.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I just have a question (sorry if this was answered recently here) but how much money did the R's offer as a reward for info leading to the arrest of JBR?
I don't recall......