KS KS - DENNIS LYNN RADER, BTK Serial Killer

[spygirl]

Unless a wife is faced with concrete proof, she won't suspect the husband.

Not I, called the wolf. I wouldn't need concrete proof. All I would need is a clue, and I would be on it.

But really, if there is a serial in your city- would you be analyzing your hubby's behavior in comparision? A man you know, have kids with, argue with, eat with, sleep with?

Yes, I would. If I found a poem like that, lived with the man for however many years they were together by 1977, you bet I would poke around following the other murders. A woman knows her husband better than anyone. She picks up on every nuance. 30 long years they lived under the same roof. Think about it. Most of the time during a conversation I pick the thoughts right out of my fiance's head, and we have been together only 4 1/2 years. Sometimes all it takes to know what is on his mind is a simple matter of body language.

Ok, so LE interviewed her over the course of a couple of days. They know how to interrogate people. I don't disregard that. I imagine that given the circumstances, it was an intense interrogation as well.

Still, the two possible scenarios are bothersome: either she subconsciously chose to ignore the signs, or didn't notice them, period.

I'm sorry. Something about that just doesn't sit right with me. It isn't normal.

Until the time comes when she can really go into some real depth about that man as she knew him, this is just how I feel about the matter. It is not a harsh or prejudiced opinion; it's just all I have to go on at present.

 

[spygirl]

We always need to help when we can.

I'm really going to need it after my last post, lol!

:truce:

 

[mysteriew]

I'm really going to need it after my last post, lol!

:truce:

ROFL! :laugh: So you have your opinion and I have mine. Doesn't mean I slap you, LOL........ Either of us could be right, or we could both be wrong. Or maybe it is split somewhere down the middle.
Doesn't have to stop us from guessing, or expressing our opinion though.

 

[spygirl]

ROFL! :laugh: So you have your opinion and I have mine. Doesn't mean I slap you, LOL........ Either of us could be right, or we could both be wrong. Or maybe it is split somewhere down the middle.
Doesn't have to stop us from guessing, or expressing our opinion though.

Peace, sister!

 

[Chanler]

Not I, called the wolf. I wouldn't need concrete proof. All I would need is a clue, and I would be on it.Yes, I would. If I found a poem like that, lived with the man for however many years they were together by 1977, you bet I would poke around following the other murders. A woman knows her husband better than anyone. She picks up on every nuance. 30 long years they lived under the same roof. Think about it. Most of the time during a conversation I pick the thoughts right out of my fiance's head, and we have been together only 4 1/2 years. Sometimes all it takes to know what is on his mind is a simple matter of body language.

Ok, so LE interviewed her over the course of a couple of days. They know how to interrogate people. I don't disregard that. I imagine that given the circumstances, it was an intense interrogation as well.

Still, the two possible scenarios are bothersome: either she subconsciously chose to ignore the signs, or didn't notice them, period.

I'm sorry. Something about that just doesn't sit right with me. It isn't normal.

Until the time comes when she can really go into some real depth about that man as she knew him, this is just how I feel about the matter. It is not a harsh or prejudiced opinion; it's just all I have to go on at present.

Couples are incredibly diverse. One of my roommates in college told me that his parents never argued, but almost never talked. A woman I know has parents who only appear together in large "family" contexts; never share a meal or an evening out together. Another woman I know didn't learn that her husband was a transvestite until months after their marriage.

I have no doubt that you would spot a Rader if you were married to him, but, mercifully, he would never marry you. People like Rader gravitate to women who don't expect (or want) deep communication.

 

[pacific]

His first murder was committed 3 years after he and Paula married - and it happened to be the same year that their first child was born. She had their daughter 3 years after that. I think she had powerful reasons to not want to believe that her husband could be BTK. However, having said that, I would bet that she did, in fact, have some short mental flashes, which accompanied what he calls her 'strong fear', for instance, upon finding his poem about Mrs. Vian. I would not be at all surprised if she actually entertained the idea of whether he could be BTK, over the years. However, how can a wife ask something like that, about her husband? I mean, BTK's behavior was so despicable.....heck, with 2 young children and not much education or a career of her own that was really capable of supporting her and the kids, I can well understand her hiding this in her own head. She may even have forgotten how she seriously considered the possibility, by now. But - and this is just my 2c - I think the thought did cross her mind, and likely a # of times.

Poor lady. She would have to have considerable problems of her own, I think, to be married to such a limited individual. I feel genuinely sorry for her, too, as she may stand to lose all she gained, at least financially, in her life.

She teaches me a powerful lesson: if you think or feel there is something wrong, you just may be right. And personally, I'd rather face it earlier, than be 57 years old, as she is now; and facing having all her $ taken away, as well as being left alone with 34 years of what.....memories of "my husband, the BTK strangler"?? How horrendous! God, I hope she gets some good therapy. She's gonna need it.

:twocents:

 

[mysteriew]

Now if she would only write a book. That one I would like to read.

 

[txsvicki]

I believe that Paula may have been suspecting Rader since he starting sending in communications last year. The subject was on the news and in the papers daily. People of the Wichita area were all talking about it. There were experts talking about what type of man btk could be and Rader fit alot of those profiles, especially being into bdsm. I think Paula may have been about to put it all together and is probably lucky to still be alive after her comment to Rader about the spelling. She must be pretty smart and observant because I really don't believe that just anyone would think that their own husband spelled like btk much less make a comment about it to him.

 

[pacific]

Now if she would only write a book. That one I would like to read.

Oh man, I would love to read that one, too! What do you think are the chances that she will, eventually, write a book - her story? I kinda think she will not very likely write anything. However, if she loses all of her money invested in their home, well, I can then see her perhaps writing a book. I'd put the chances of our seeing a book by Paula Rader at about 10%...

 

[catlover]

I believe that Paula may have been suspecting Rader since he starting sending in communications last year. The subject was on the news and in the papers daily. People of the Wichita area were all talking about it. There were experts talking about what type of man btk could be and Rader fit alot of those profiles, especially being into bdsm. I think Paula may have been about to put it all together and is probably lucky to still be alive after her comment to Rader about the spelling. She must be pretty smart and observant because I really don't believe that just anyone would think that their own husband spelled like btk much less make a comment about it to him.

My personal belief is after reading somewhere the daughter's husband posting about his wife waking up nightly with screaming nightmares, that she may have went to a therapist and was hypnotized ,where she may have remembered getting into her fathers closet and seeing some things that scared her so bad that she repressed it out of fear of punishment for getting into daddy's closet as well as what she may have seen .Maybe she went to the police with her concerns and gave her dna ,which was reported at first. The police may have decided not to involve her any futher and changed the story as to how they got her dna

 

[Chanler]

My personal belief is after reading somewhere the daughter's husband posting about his wife waking up nightly with screaming nightmares, that she may have went to a therapist and was hypnotized ,where she may have remembered getting into her fathers closet and seeing some things that scared her so bad that she repressed it out of fear of punishment for getting into daddy's closet as well as what she may have seen .Maybe she went to the police with her concerns and gave her dna ,which was reported at first. The police may have decided not to involve her any futher and changed the story as to how they got her dna

Thanks, catlover, for mentioning the daughter's nightmares. Obviously, the idea of sharing a bed with a man was deeply troubling to her. This is the passage from the website:

"Dec 27 2003:
Living with Kerri
I think this is going to shorten my life. I am either waking up with no covers, waking up with a psychotic woman looking for a monster, or some mexican person that could've broken in to murder us. Either that or she is just screaming because she thinks that in my peacful state of slumber that I am trying to mutilate her in some way. I have heard rumors that all women are completely insane when they sleep. I think the idea is to control every facet of their mans life. There was a week or so after we had been married about a month where I was woke up 3 times a night to some sort of dream event of some kind or screaming. Let me tell you, it just about destroyed me.

For this reason alone I can say that I am glad we didn't sleep together before we were married. I certainly could not have handled having my sleep ruined during college, as I didn't sleep but 4 hours a night on average. I even started sleeping on the futon because I had lost the strength to climb into my bed. Man, college was fun. Maybe I'll start staying up late and sleeping on the couch here in an attempt to recreate that always sleepy college atmosphere. One time in studio, I was so tired that I fell asleep standing up while talking to Trevor. Man, I was SOOO tired."

I think that it's entirely possible that Rader's poor daughter has some root fear of men derived from her childhood; who would not being raised by DR, even in his "good citizen" phase. But obviously neither she nor her husband seem to be connecting her nightmares to a Wichita's newly resurrected mass torturer killer. Otherwise, I doubt that he would have mentioned it in a website entry, especially one that is more about sleep-deprivation than the cause of his wife's nightmares.

I think that it's extremely unlikely that the daughter went to the police. The chronology of events indicates clearly, I think, when and why the polce would be approaching her; unless she was psychic, the timing would be an instance of extreme serendipity. Also, in his final statement, Rader himself alludes to the DNA sample and connects it to police procedure. Misrepresenting it in court papers (which Rader was privy to) could have strengthened the possibility of an appeal; which nobody wanted.

A dear friend and her sister were raised by a "functioning psychotic." Although he wasn't physically or sexual abusive to them, both of them bear deep marks of being raised by him. One of them has sleep problems including nightmares and the other has severe anger management problems. It doesn't surprise me that poor KR would have had night monsters.

 

[concernedperson]

My personal belief is after reading somewhere the daughter's husband posting about his wife waking up nightly with screaming nightmares, that she may have went to a therapist and was hypnotized ,where she may have remembered getting into her fathers closet and seeing some things that scared her so bad that she repressed it out of fear of punishment for getting into daddy's closet as well as what she may have seen .Maybe she went to the police with her concerns and gave her dna ,which was reported at first. The police may have decided not to involve her any futher and changed the story as to how they got her dna

Excellent theory and a probability. Please keep posting as we need these insights. Wow, I am so glad you are here.

To add, I hope Paula does come forward....first and foremost for herself....and second that she sheds light on what is probably a closed situation and she was more than likely an outsider to it all. But tidbits will help others in retrospect. The little clues are often the ones that ultimately make a difference.

 

[catlover]

Excellent theory and a probability. Please keep posting as we need these insights. Wow, I am so glad you are here.

To add, I hope Paula does come forward....first and foremost for herself....and second that she sheds light on what is probably a closed situation and she was more than likely an outsider to it all. But tidbits will help others in retrospect. The little clues are often the ones that ultimately make a difference.

Thank You,I just felt that it was strange about his Daughter and knowing kids will get into Mom and Dads things at one time or another curious about what is there and why they can't see it too.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

I wanted to add, also, that any woman who has posted or read at crime sleuthing websites for a reasonable length of time, is naturally suspicious! So, in that respect, Mrs. Rader wouldn't be like us.

My dad was a lot like Rader.... ruled his home with an *iron fist* so to speak, never to be questioned. No one dared create any ripples in his pond. So I can understand Mrs. R's hesitancy to go through his things. He had to be exceptionally organized, so that anything she needed to look for, such as important papers, would be in an accessible place where she wouldn't need to rummage around.

Some women stay with men like that. It's hard to understand though, him being the sociopath he is. He doesn't strike me as being a warm, sensitive individual, even behind closed doors. 30 years she spent with him! Wow. Talk about tenacity.

I hope she can move on after all of this. I wonder if she will ever trust another man again, enough to become intimate. I hope that she will go public with her story. This has to be so hard on her, with so many skeptics scrutinizing her life with him. Did she work outside the home? If not, that presents a whole new set of challenges, especially for a woman accustomed to a certain lifestyle before all of this. I hope her kids are able to regain some semblance of normalcy.

I'm sure the community will be supportive of whatever efforts she makes to put this behind her, though in reality, she never, ever will be able to in full.

I'm glad that this forum doesn't attract a whole lot of attention, because it's just what he would have wanted. I watched most of Wednesday and Thursday's sentencing. He has such soulless eyes. Pits of emptiness.

I wouldn't be surprised if his wife came from a dysfunctional family with a distant father as well. She may have lived with Rader and stayed with him all this time because she thought this was what married life was supposed to be, or didn't think she could do better.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

Thanks, catlover, for mentioning the daughter's nightmares. Obviously, the idea of sharing a bed with a man was deeply troubling to her. This is the passage from the website:

"Dec 27 2003:
II think that it's extremely unlikely that the daughter went to the police. The chronology of events indicates clearly, I think, when and why the polce would be approaching her; unless she was psychic, the timing would be an instance of extreme serendipity. Also, in his final statement, Rader himself alludes to the DNA sample and connects it to police procedure. Misrepresenting it in court papers (which Rader was privy to) could have strengthened the possibility of an appeal; which nobody wanted.
.

The court documents have stated that the DNA from the daughter came from a banked tissue sample, not the daughter herself, and they had to get a warrant for it. They were 99.9% Rader was their man, since they had his license plate from the Home Depot surveillance tapes. The DNA evidence simply made it 100%.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

My personal belief is after reading somewhere the daughter's husband posting about his wife waking up nightly with screaming nightmares, that she may have went to a therapist and was hypnotized ,where she may have remembered getting into her fathers closet and seeing some things that scared her so bad that she repressed it out of fear of punishment for getting into daddy's closet as well as what she may have seen .Maybe she went to the police with her concerns and gave her dna ,which was reported at first. The police may have decided not to involve her any futher and changed the story as to how they got her dna

The DNA was retrieved from a banked tissue sample. The daughter had nothing to do with handing it over, as it was obtained via a warrant. I suspect her nightmares and psychological trauma are more likely related to suppressed memories of sexual abuse, as Rader has discussed at length his fantasies re teaching a 10 year old girl about sex. And this was a man who acted on his fantasies.

 

[Sassygerl]

Thank You,I just felt that it was strange about his Daughter and knowing kids will get into Mom and Dads things at one time or another curious about what is there and why they can't see it too.

I agree, especially around Christmas!!!! Kids snoop!

I sure hope in time the family will speak out, that is one book I'd love to read. Better yet an interview on TV would be interesting too!

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

I agree, especially around Christmas!!!! Kids snoop!

I sure hope in time the family will speak out, that is one book I'd love to read. Better yet an interview on TV would be interesting too!

I think we'll find out eventually Rader was hell to live with, being controlling, domneering, and especially protective of "his" space. I bet his kids played at their friends houses and were never allowed to have sleep overs or friends in their house.

 

[txsvicki]

Couples are incredibly diverse. One of my roommates in college told me that his parents never argued, but almost never talked. A woman I know has parents who only appear together in large "family" contexts; never share a meal or an evening out together. Another woman I know didn't learn that her husband was a transvestite until months after their marriage.

I have no doubt that you would spot a Rader if you were married to him, but, mercifully, he would never marry you. People like Rader gravitate to women who don't expect (or want) deep communication.

Remember the guy who came forward when btk was first caught? His mother had dated Rader and thought he was the nicest guy there was and had even named her son after him? This guy said that the boy's dad probably doesn't even know that she had named one of her sons after a former boyfriend. Rader could also have liked domineering women or those who do things on their own or the way they want. I just can't understand why no friends from way back in school or growing up have come forward to tell what type of person person Paula was, other than being sweet. I know her work friends really spoke well of her but no one has said if she is a really strong woman or shy or what.

 

[pacific]

The DNA was retrieved from a banked tissue sample. The daughter had nothing to do with handing it over, as it was obtained via a warrant. I suspect her nightmares and psychological trauma are more likely related to suppressed memories of sexual abuse, as Rader has discussed at length his fantasies re teaching a 10 year old girl about sex. And this was a man who acted on his fantasies.

I agree with you. A young woman with a father like that, would be at very high risk of incest. When I saw here, about her having nightmares and screaming in her sleep, driving her husband batty, that speaks to me of 'post traumatic stress disorder'. That kind of problem is heavily correlated with incest survivors, and with children who repress memories, because it is too dangerous to be in touch with them, until they leave home & feel safe enough to recall a few things. Geez, I feel sorry for his daughter. What a load to have to carry through life: "my dad is BTK". :banghead: