KY KY - Crystal Rogers, 35, Bluegrass Parkway, 3 July 2015 #3

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  • #21
I think police use buck shot as their main ammo for shotguns. I wonder if the PD inventories ammo issued to officers.

And if I remember correctly, buck shot is sold in small boxes, maybe 5 shell boxes, and is expensive. So expensive and really not sporting so I never bought any. With that said, I don’t think lots of it is sold so I assume all local gun shops were probably checked for sales.

Was there ever any connection between christal and Ellis? When I watched one of the interviews between a houck and the state police, I think one of the guys alluded to christal maybe being involved with another officer??? Anyone remember this?

I guess it depends on the gauge and type of buckshot that’s being used as far as expense goes. Most people I know who hunt smaller game, use buckshot. It’s pretty common around here. It’s really difficult to do any kind of testing on since the pellets are usually smaller and disperse in weird patterns.

I’ve never been able to find a direct link between Crystal and Ofc Ellis. There were a lot of rumors early on but none of them ever panned out. The city of Bardstown is pretty small but Nelson Co is one of the larger counties in the state. Ofc Ellis lived in Bloomfield and wasn’t actually from the area so it’s very possible that he didn’t personally know any of them involved. I’m sure he knew Nick Houck bc they worked together but they were in different departments. There’s a video floating around of one of the press conferences that the police chief, Mccubbins, gave and you can see Nick Houck in the background.
 
  • #22
Everything I read today from multiple sources states that Kathy suffered multiple GSW and I was able to ascertain that the type of gun used as well as the ammunition were never disclosed.
Both Kathy and Samantha suffered cuts to the neck while Samantha additionally endured blunt force trauma repeatedly to her head. Ugh

Unfortunately this doesn’t help us as we are pretty sure Jason Ellis was killed with a rifle/shotgun, Tommy Ballard too and possibly Crystal as well.
@GoBuckeyes if you’re familiar with hunting and/or firearms, could you please explain a reloader and its possible significance in this case and the others? I get what you said about the ability to “overload” the ammo to cause harm with a rifle shot and I have considered that either Houck brother over loaded in an attempt to be funny or whatever but if Crystal fired a rifle that was “overloaded” or even a handgun would it have been enough force/recoil to kill and/or disfigure her?

Apologies for sounding stupid but is there a difference between a rifle and a shotgun? Would one or both make use of a reloader? And what specifically does the reloader do and what exactly would investigators be looking to discern with this particular evidence? TIA!

No apologies needed. You asked some terrific questions!

The primary difference between a rifle and a shotgun (they are both long guns) is in the bore, the inside of the barrel of a gun. A rifle, as with a handgun, is comprised of a bore that has rifling. Rifling is the spiral grooves cut into the bore, and it causes the shell to rotate in a spiral pattern. The significance being that the rifling increases pressure, distance, and accuracy. A rifle is usually shot at a ground level target. The bore of a rifle is designed with thick walls to withstand high pressure.

The bore of a shotgun, on the other hand, has thinner walls and is smooth, the only exception being shotguns made to fire a slug. In those fairly rare cases, the shotgun may have rifling. But most often, a shotgun features a thinner walled barrel without rifling to the bore, and is used to shoot moving objects in the air. The lack of riffling allows for less friction, less pressure, and thinner walls.

A handgun (pistol or revolver) also has a thicker walled but short barrel. Handguns have rifling also.

Handloading or reloading is the loading of firearm cartridges or shotgun shells by assembling the individual components oneself, rather than purchasing completely assembled, factory-loaded ammunition. The device used in this process is called a reloader. Reloader Buying Guide While handloading and reloading are terms used interchangeably by everyone I've ever known familiar with the activity, to be very technical, handloading is the more general term, as some enthusiasts choose to load new cases or shells. New cases or shells are usually ready for loading. A casing that has already been fired requires preparation before reloading, such as the removal of expended primers.

Why would someone handload a gun? While I personally do not handload, some reasons that some people give are economy (for those who shoot regularly), commercial ammo shortage, performance/accuracy, the ability to underload for a beginner or for someone who is afraid of the recoil. Example, if a Mom or Dad wants to teach their daughter or son about guns, gun safety, and say introduce them to target shooting, but don't necessarily want to invest in a beginner gun, she or he can underload the gun so there's less recoil.

Potential Forensic Evidence
Hand guns (pistols and revolvers), rifles, and shotguns can all receive and discharge reloaded ammunition. Sometimes the distinctive markings left on a casing can be linked to a reloader. But it is more complicated than linking an unreloaded casing because multiple marks are left. See
A Quick Determination Method of Reloaded Pistol Cases by Observational Studies: A Precaution for Forensic Crime Scene Investigation

Absolutely, an overloaded gun or underloaded one, for that matter, can injure or kill.
Why Guns Blow Up Part III: Overloading and Underloading Ammo | Gun Explosion

I hope that is helpful. And don't ever apologize for asking questions. ;)
 
  • #23
Guys sometimes as joke slip in a heavier load to make the gun kick harder to an unsuspecting shooter. Especially shotgun shells. Now, in no way am I defending this behavior, but I seriously doubt it was designed to cause the gun to explode. From the outside looking in I think this is a weak argument supporting abuse. Do I think BH is likely involved in her being missing, yes! Do I think this was possibly an abusive relationship, yes! Do I think this slipping in a ‘heavy load’ as a sport shooter might call it, was designed to be abuse or cause real harm, no. JMO, for what it’s worth


Edited by me

It could be used as a method of homicide; albeit, not a very controlled or reliable method. But it's possible.
 
  • #24
Ofc Ellis didn’t actually work the same shift as Nick. I’m sure they still knew of each other bc it’s a small dept.
They did previously work the same shift and it was an unexpected gem I discovered while watching the Youtube video of Nick’s questioning by Jon Snow. Last fall I inquired if they were previous partners and Nelson County Sheriff’s responded to me confirming Jason and Nick had previously worked the same shift but each cop works separately and they don’t partner up.
I wasn’t able to determine when Nick’s shift changed but it was prior to him being questioned regarding Crystal’s disappearance. I previously posted a link NCS’s response but it was removed because screenshots are not allowed but I didn’t want the message from my real life Facebook account posted here.
 
  • #25
I guess it depends on the gauge and type of buckshot that’s being used as far as expense goes. Most people I know who hunt smaller game, use buckshot. It’s pretty common around here. It’s really difficult to do any kind of testing on since the pellets are usually smaller and disperse in weird patterns.


The term buckshot is almost universally used to mean 0,00,000 shot. Sometimes labeled as b,bb, bbb.Most small game is hunted using a 6 to 9 shot. Unless hunting large game very few hunters would have buckshot. Buckshot is mainly used as a defensive load, meaning to be used on people. In the link to a chart it’s shows #4 as a buckshot. I never seen it for sale anywhere. I am certain double ought buckshot 00, is sold in small boxes exclusively.

Again, my opinion is ‘buckshot’ is not kept in mass by hunters. In my 50+ yrs I maybe bought one 5 round box of buckshot.

Edited to add link Google Image Result for http://www.rivermenrodandgunclub.com/uploads/5/8/4/7/5847637/5875935_orig.jpg
 
  • #26
  • #27
The term buckshot is almost universally used to mean 0,00,000 shot. Sometimes labeled as b,bb, bbb.Most small game is hunted using a 6 to 9 shot. Unless hunting large game very few hunters would have buckshot. Buckshot is mainly used as a defensive load, meaning to be used on people. In the link to a chart it’s shows #4 as a buckshot. I never seen it for sale anywhere. I am certain double ought buckshot 00, is sold in small boxes exclusively.

Again, my opinion is ‘buckshot’ is not kept in mass by hunters. In my 50+ yrs I maybe bought one 5 round box of buckshot.

Edited to add link Google Image Result for http://www.rivermenrodandgunclub.com/uploads/5/8/4/7/5847637/5875935_orig.jpg

Really? Buckshot is the shell with the pellets, right? Or it can contain a slug? It may be legal now, but up until a few years ago, it was illegal to use buckshot on large game in KY. I don’t hunt. I don’t like guns. However, every one out here hunts and for smaller game, I’ve only ever seen buckshot used. Could it be a regional thing? Lol you know what I mean? Because of different hunting laws in different states, or just different types of game? Of course, if someone were using a reloader, it would make it even less expensive. I know the prices have gone up, at least around here, since a lot of stores stopped carrying guns.

I do know Ellis was shot with buckshot from a 12g and there were two different shells. It makes sense to choose that type of ammo. That exit is really dark at night and it’s surrounded by rock walls. Whoever shot him, shot down towards him and they knew they needed to render him defenseless before he had a chance to grab his service weapon.
 
  • #28
Which brings to mind, is there a specific reason someone would use a reloader to cover their tracks and hide evidence? I’m speaking in reference to all the murders and not just one. Would it be more cost efficient and less traceable? Especially if the weapon were never found? TIA!
 
  • #29
No apologies needed. You asked some terrific questions!

The primary difference between a rifle and a shotgun (they are both long guns) is in the bore, the inside of the barrel of a gun. A rifle, as with a handgun, is comprised of a bore that has rifling. Rifling is the spiral grooves cut into the bore, and it causes the shell to rotate in a spiral pattern. The significance being that the rifling increases pressure, distance, and accuracy. A rifle is usually shot at a ground level target. The bore of a rifle is designed with thick walls to withstand high pressure.

The bore of a shotgun, on the other hand, has thinner walls and is smooth, the only exception being shotguns made to fire a slug. In those fairly rare cases, the shotgun may have rifling. But most often, a shotgun features a thinner walled barrel without rifling to the bore, and is used to shoot moving objects in the air. The lack of riffling allows for less friction, less pressure, and thinner walls.

A handgun (pistol or revolver) also has a thicker walled but short barrel. Handguns have rifling also.

Handloading or reloading is the loading of firearm cartridges or shotgun shells by assembling the individual components oneself, rather than purchasing completely assembled, factory-loaded ammunition. The device used in this process is called a reloader. Reloader Buying Guide While handloading and reloading are terms used interchangeably by everyone I've ever known familiar with the activity, to be very technical, handloading is the more general term, as some enthusiasts choose to load new cases or shells. New cases or shells are usually ready for loading. A casing that has already been fired requires preparation before reloading, such as the removal of expended primers.

Why would someone handload a gun? While I personally do not handload, some reasons that some people give are economy (for those who shoot regularly), commercial ammo shortage, performance/accuracy, the ability to underload for a beginner or for someone who is afraid of the recoil. Example, if a Mom or Dad wants to teach their daughter or son about guns, gun safety, and say introduce them to target shooting, but don't necessarily want to invest in a beginner gun, she or he can underload the gun so there's less recoil.

Potential Forensic Evidence
Hand guns (pistols and revolvers), rifles, and shotguns can all receive and discharge reloaded ammunition. Sometimes the distinctive markings left on a casing can be linked to a reloader. But it is more complicated than linking an unreloaded casing because multiple marks are left. See
A Quick Determination Method of Reloaded Pistol Cases by Observational Studies: A Precaution for Forensic Crime Scene Investigation

Absolutely, an overloaded gun or underloaded one, for that matter, can injure or kill.
Why Guns Blow Up Part III: Overloading and Underloading Ammo | Gun Explosion

I hope that is helpful. And don't ever apologize for asking questions. ;)

No apologies needed. You asked some terrific questions!

The primary difference between a rifle and a shotgun (they are both long guns) is in the bore, the inside of the barrel of a gun. A rifle, as with a handgun, is comprised of a bore that has rifling. Rifling is the spiral grooves cut into the bore, and it causes the shell to rotate in a spiral pattern. The significance being that the rifling increases pressure, distance, and accuracy. A rifle is usually shot at a ground level target. The bore of a rifle is designed with thick walls to withstand high pressure.

The bore of a shotgun, on the other hand, has thinner walls and is smooth, the only exception being shotguns made to fire a slug. In those fairly rare cases, the shotgun may have rifling. But most often, a shotgun features a thinner walled barrel without rifling to the bore, and is used to shoot moving objects in the air. The lack of riffling allows for less friction, less pressure, and thinner walls.

A handgun (pistol or revolver) also has a thicker walled but short barrel. Handguns have rifling also.

Handloading or reloading is the loading of firearm cartridges or shotgun shells by assembling the individual components oneself, rather than purchasing completely assembled, factory-loaded ammunition. The device used in this process is called a reloader. Reloader Buying Guide While handloading and reloading are terms used interchangeably by everyone I've ever known familiar with the activity, to be very technical, handloading is the more general term, as some enthusiasts choose to load new cases or shells. New cases or shells are usually ready for loading. A casing that has already been fired requires preparation before reloading, such as the removal of expended primers.

Why would someone handload a gun? While I personally do not handload, some reasons that some people give are economy (for those who shoot regularly), commercial ammo shortage, performance/accuracy, the ability to underload for a beginner or for someone who is afraid of the recoil. Example, if a Mom or Dad wants to teach their daughter or son about guns, gun safety, and say introduce them to target shooting, but don't necessarily want to invest in a beginner gun, she or he can underload the gun so there's less recoil.

Potential Forensic Evidence
Hand guns (pistols and revolvers), rifles, and shotguns can all receive and discharge reloaded ammunition. Sometimes the distinctive markings left on a casing can be linked to a reloader. But it is more complicated than linking an unreloaded casing because multiple marks are left. See
A Quick Determination Method of Reloaded Pistol Cases by Observational Studies: A Precaution for Forensic Crime Scene Investigation

Absolutely, an overloaded gun or underloaded one, for that matter, can injure or kill.
Why Guns Blow Up Part III: Overloading and Underloading Ammo | Gun Explosion

I hope that is helpful. And don't ever apologize for asking questions. ;)

@mom2chloe @jULIA_bEE sorry for having to repost. It wouldn't allow me to edit so I could tag you.
 
  • #30
They did previously work the same shift and it was an unexpected gem I discovered while watching the Youtube video of Nick’s questioning by Jon Snow. Last fall I inquired if they were previous partners and Nelson County Sheriff’s responded to me confirming Jason and Nick had previously worked the same shift but each cop works separately and they don’t partner up.
I wasn’t able to determine when Nick’s shift changed but it was prior to him being questioned regarding Crystal’s disappearance. I previously posted a link NCS’s response but it was removed because screenshots are not allowed but I didn’t want the message from my real life Facebook account posted here.

You’re right. It was actually the interview with the two KSP detectives. He worked 3rd and then switched to 1st a few months prior to crystals disappearance. I’m surprised NCSO gave any info, especially since they worked for BPD.
 
  • #31
Which brings to mind, is there a specific reason someone would use a reloader to cover their tracks and hide evidence? I’m speaking in reference to all the murders and not just one. Would it be more cost efficient and less traceable? Especially if the weapon were never found? TIA!

I think it would be both. It would definitely make it even more difficult to trace than it already is
 
  • #32
Really? Buckshot is the shell with the pellets, right? Or it can contain a slug? It may be legal now, but up until a few years ago, it was illegal to use buckshot on large game in KY. I don’t hunt. I don’t like guns. However, every one out here hunts and for smaller game, I’ve only ever seen buckshot used. Could it be a regional thing? Lol you know what I mean? Because of different hunting laws in different states, or just different types of game? Of course, if someone were using a reloader, it would make it even less expensive. I know the prices have gone up, at least around here, since a lot of stores stopped carrying guns.

I do know Ellis was shot with buckshot from a 12g and there were two different shells. It makes sense to choose that type of ammo. That exit is really dark at night and it’s surrounded by rock walls. Whoever shot him, shot down towards him and they knew they needed to render him defenseless before he had a chance to grab his service weapon.
Buckshot only means a specific size pellet. I think you are calling all shot shells buckshot. They are not. Buckshot is a very large pellet, smaller sizes are just called ‘shot’.
 
  • #33
I think it would be both. It would definitely make it even more difficult to trace than it already is
The killer(s) are very well versed in their choice of firearms, ammo and the evidence left behind!
I didn’t feel safe inquiring further regarding when NH changed shifts but he likely knew Jason’s route home and when his shift ended. The BG Parkway is pitch black at nighttime regardless of where you are IMO. Someone who knew the conditions was able to take out Jason and Tommy and had no qualms about either. I refuse to drive that area in dark for fear of deer!
I have asked before but is anyone aware of either Houck Brother having military experience? So little is known about Nick particularly, with regard to his personal life. Does he have a significant other? Kids? Is he involved in the family’s rental property business? Jealous of his brother or maybe just an enabler? So many questions and zero amswers.
 
  • #34
Buckshot only means a specific size pellet. I think you are calling all shot shells buckshot. They are not. Buckshot is a very large pellet, smaller sizes are just called ‘shot’.
Not trying to be argumentative, it’s just the term ‘buckshot’ is fairly specific and has some meaning due to what it is used for, especially police use
 
  • #35
Buckshot only means a specific size pellet. I think you are calling all shot shells buckshot. They are not. Buckshot is a very large pellet, smaller sizes are just called ‘shot’.
Is buckshot the same or different than what former VP Cheney was accidentally shot with? TIA!
Edited to add i believe Cheney was shot with what DH deems birdshot!
 
Last edited:
  • #36
Is buckshot the same or different than what former VP Cheney was accidentally shot with? TIA!
Idk what he was shot with, but if bird hunting he was likely hit by ‘bird shot’ which is much smaller then ‘buckshot’.
 
  • #37
Which brings to mind, is there a specific reason someone would use a reloader to cover their tracks and hide evidence? I’m speaking in reference to all the murders and not just one. Would it be more cost efficient and less traceable? Especially if the weapon were never found? TIA!
I would think reloading wouldn’t be the best way to be less traceable because a shell has several components. The outer case ‘hull’, the primer, the powder, the ‘wad’, and the shot. I would think it might be easy to trace back a specific combination. Say a shell was reloaded, using a certain brand primer, and a different brand wad. Might be easy to look at all the stores that sold that specific brand primer AND wad, all at the same store. I assume factory loads wouldn’t be as traceable because they all have the same components. Just my opinion. Also reloading buckshot is not common, so there would be a limited list of places that sold shot in the ‘buckshot’ size, and thus being much more traceable.
Birdshot like 7 1/2, 8, or 9 would be very common at reloading supply places. But, while deadly isn’t anywhere close to as deadly as say double ought buck
 
  • #38
The killer(s) are very well versed in their choice of firearms, ammo and the evidence left behind!
I didn’t feel safe inquiring further regarding when NH changed shifts but he likely knew Jason’s route home and when his shift ended. The BG Parkway is pitch black at nighttime regardless of where you are IMO. Someone who knew the conditions was able to take out Jason and Tommy and had no qualms about either. I refuse to drive that area in dark for fear of deer!
I have asked before but is anyone aware of either Houck Brother having military experience? So little is known about Nick particularly, with regard to his personal life. Does he have a significant other? Kids? Is he involved in the family’s rental property business? Jealous of his brother or maybe just an enabler? So many questions and zero amswers.
I was up and down the parkway the weekend Crystal disappeared and i take the Bloomfield exit to get home. I absolutely hate being out there when it’s dark. I didn’t like it before, and i dislike it even more now.

Nick worked for Lebanon PD for a short period before transferring to BPD. I’m pretty sure neither one had any military experience.

Nick had his own LLC before dissolving it. After he got fired, he got back into rental properties. He’s basically a slum lord lol. He doesn’t have any kids and I’m pretty sure he’s been married once but was already divorced and dating someone new when Crystal disappeared. I can’t remember for sure if he’d been married or engaged.
 
  • #39
Buckshot only means a specific size pellet. I think you are calling all shot shells buckshot. They are not. Buckshot is a very large pellet, smaller sizes are just called ‘shot’.

No I’m referring to the pellets as buckshot lol. I was thinking they came in diff diameters and weight.
 
  • #40
No I’m referring to the pellets as buckshot lol. I was thinking they came in diff diameters and weight.
Yeap lots of sizes and weights but only some are ‘buckshot’,
 
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