Kyron Horman General Discussion thread 2012-13

[Cherry]

From what I remember the 'back door' to the parking lot is right outside Kyron's home room. Meaning that you can walk out his classroom and directly be in the parking lot. Meaning vry conv. He was on the last room in the row as we would call it.

 

[MyBelle]

That's right...been debating this for A WEEK. DY was wrong about the room #, I don't know why Kaine didn't correct her. It was room 213.

Good point. Perhaps her misstatement was designed to elicit a reaction....and it did not.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Room 213 is also what was listed on the School Handbook linked below for his teacher Ms. Porter.

I think the main point was that TH eplained where she was to LE and to DY and both of them told her it didn't make sense, and then she changed her story. That's what I took away from it anyway.

I do think the show got the graphics all wrong too. Good catch Free!

Here is some old conversation about what Terri told LE as reported to MSM.

Kyron Horman Case Review #1: Thread #2: LE Press Conference & Release: June 6 2010 - Page 3 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community



http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools/skyline/files/mskach/Parentand_StudentHandbook_2010-11.pdf

How could the show get the graphics wrong? The show used what was given to them.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

From what I remember the 'back door' to the parking lot is right outside Kyron's home room. Meaning that you can walk out his classroom and directly be in the parking lot. Meaning vry conv. He was on the last room in the row as we would call it.

Who, other than Kaine and Terri would know he was on the last row? And Kyron would have no reason to go through the door unless he knew either Kaine or Terri was on the other side? So, his disappearance yet again points not to a stranger but to one of his caregivers.

JMO

 

[Shadowboy]

How could the show get the graphics wrong? The show used what was given to them.

JMO

Hum. Well, you're going to have to trust me on this one: The show did their own graphics and neither DY nor KH saw it beforehand. DY and KH most definitely did not provide artwork. As I mentioned earlier, my career (30 years) is broadcasting, both live and prerecorded programming. It's not at all unusual for "quick and dirty" graphics to get messed up and aired without a double-check. Happens all the time.

 

[loves2bmom]

From what I remember the 'back door' to the parking lot is right outside Kyron's home room. Meaning that you can walk out his classroom and directly be in the parking lot. Meaning vry conv. He was on the last room in the row as we would call it.

When you walk down the steps from his classroom and out the door, it goes to a pathway that leads to the access road. (the one where they staged a white pickup truck parked there) So not exactly to a parking lot, but easy access to a waiting vehicle, yes.

 

[Shadowboy]

Room 213 is also what was listed on the School Handbook linked below for his teacher Ms. Porter.

I think the main point was that TH eplained where she was to LE and to DY and both of them told her it didn't make sense, and then she changed her story. That's what I took away from it anyway.

I do think the show got the graphics all wrong too. Good catch Free!

Here is some old conversation about what Terri told LE as reported to MSM.

Kyron Horman Case Review #1: Thread #2: LE Press Conference & Release: June 6 2010 - Page 3 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community



http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools/skyline/files/mskach/Parentand_StudentHandbook_2010-11.pdf

Thank you! Thank you! Yes, it was the MCSO spokeswoman who reported TH's earliest version of "two staircases." I'm so glad I wasn't hallucinating!

 

[freefallzzzz]

http://directory.libsyn.com/shows/view/id/jpr

Ran across a podcast from Jefferson Public Radio *The Jefferson Exchange* (Southern Oregon Area) recorded after the Dr Phil show. They talk with Desiree.

Scroll down page to 9/18/2013 and a pop up window appeared for me to play it in.

*I'm listening as I post this

 

[freefallzzzz]

When you walk down the steps from his classroom and out the door, it goes to a pathway that leads to the access road. (the one where they staged a white pickup truck parked there) So not exactly to a parking lot, but easy access to a waiting vehicle, yes.

Actually you go down the stairs from his classroom to a landing then down a few more stairs to the outside entrance.


Yes if you parked on the access road (or the along Skyline below the playground) it might make sense to go out that way as if you went out the front or east entrance you would either have to walk down out the main parking lot and walk along Skyline to get to the access road, or walk along the little sidewalk in front of the school going west which takes you to same spot you would end up if you exited the WEST entrance.

 

[freefallzzzz]

Just to throw this in here I took a picture yesterday (I have one from 2010 somewhere) through the FRONT DOOR of the school
(west is to the left, east is to the right)
You go UP to the 2nd level and DOWN to the lower level.

The school sits on a hill so the east side bottom level is kind of below ground but the rooms, exits are all exposed on the west side.



ok I had a front door picture in that album but this shows a bit better the top of the stairs

 

[MyBelle]

Hum. Well, you're going to have to trust me on this one: The show did their own graphics and neither DY nor KH saw it beforehand. DY and KH most definitely did not provide artwork. As I mentioned earlier, my career (30 years) is broadcasting, both live and prerecorded programming. It's not at all unusual for "quick and dirty" graphics to get messed up and aired without a double-check. Happens all the time.

My point was that the show's graphics were based on whatever they were given. I would assume the show's producer obtained the information either directly from the school or LE. The show did not just create something out of thin air.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Actually you go down the stairs from his classroom to a landing then down a few more stairs to the outside entrance.


Yes if you parked on the access road (or the along Skyline below the playground) it might make sense to go out that way as if you went out the front or east entrance you would either have to walk down out the main parking lot and walk along Skyline to get to the access road, or walk along the little sidewalk in front of the school going west which takes you to same spot you would end up if you exited the WEST entrance.

So, it is a possibility that Kyron went to school only so he could see the exhibits and then he exited through that door to the parking lot? When was the photo taken of him in front of the exhibit?

 

[Shadowboy]

http://directory.libsyn.com/shows/view/id/jpr

Ran across a podcast from Jefferson Public Radio *The Jefferson Exchange* (Southern Oregon Area) recorded after the Dr Phil show. They talk with Desiree.

Scroll down page to 9/18/2013 and a pop up window appeared for me to play it in.

Thanks! Here's a VERY rough transcription:

DY appreciates PDX police handing it off to MSCO; no jurisdictional infighting. Disappointed the case has not resolved.

Q: Confident TH will be called in to account? DY: Yes.

DY: TH clearly stated she wanted to harm him, could harm him. Doubt TH stashed him, because that leaves too many who could talk.

DY: Before this happened, private person. “Odd dynamic” to share “everything about your life” in media; but fear of no coverage outweighs fear of sharing. Must keep this case to the forefront. It’s been “trial and error” on her part. Sometimes you fail. Need for public to connect: we are “average people” “this could be my child” and it’s unfortunate, but we do have that “power to influence other people and how they handle the safety from their own lives.”

Q: LE says making progress … given false hopes? DY: There has been a lot of progress, not apparent to general public. Not found Ky yet, but have a LOT, of circumstantial evidence tying TH to Ky’s disappearance; "150%" certain TH is the person that “we’re needing to bring in and charge.” “That’s not the issue. It’s being able to not make the same mistake we did with Caycee Anthony in Caylee’s Anthony case: It’s extremely important to have the child first before charging the suspect.”

Q: Another search in mid/late August? (2013) DY: Yes. 10 dog teams; 2 NPOs; about 65 volunteers. Searched about 15 key areas “based on some information that I had and just my gut feelings overall as a mother.” Searched those areas “so that we could at least – if not find Kyron or find evidence – we could at least rule them out.”

Q: New discoveries? KY: “Yes. We did find at least two pieces of possible new evidence that are connected to Terri. We can’t divulge what those are. They’re considered what we call ‘hold-back items” or items that we don’t divulge the description of; but those are being investigated, looked at, and checked for DNA and all of those things through the law enforcement that picked it up.”

Q: Court stuff. KY: … dismissed civil suit because “law enforcement, the DA’s office specifically, would not turn over their file.”

Q: Layers of ‘who can say what’ re: divorce proceedings … frustrating? KY: Extremely. Ky’s rights no longer as important as Terri’s and her “right to plead the 5th Amendment. It’s frustrating and we can’t get answers, and we have to go a different route. But that doesn't mean I’m gonna give up.”

00:12:52
(General yak about Ky coverage/interest) DY: Plans to keep pressure on TH.

Signs off at 14:35 or so

 

[Shadowboy]

My point was that the show's graphics were based on whatever they were given. I would assume the show's producer obtained the information either directly from the school or LE. The show did not just create something out of thin air.

JMO

You're right. The graphics were recreated from crappy PDFs available here and all over the Internet. However, those low-rez PDFs did not magically "create" themselves as HD JPEGs, suitable for air on Dr. P. Those low rez PDFs did not have "X marks the spot" indications.

BTW: There's a fabulous run of Chinook on the Columbia this year.

 

[loves2bmom]

Thanks for transcribing that Shadowboy. Very interesting about the possible evidence found on the recent search!

 

[nosysw]

Thanks! Here's a VERY rough transcription:

DY appreciates PDX police handing it off to MSCO; no jurisdictional infighting. Disappointed the case has not resolved.

Q: Confident TH will be called in to account? DY: Yes.

DY: TH clearly stated she wanted to harm him, could harm him. Doubt TH stashed him, because that leaves too many who could talk.

DY: Before this happened, private person. “Odd dynamic” to share “everything about your life” in media; but fear of no coverage outweighs fear of sharing. Must keep this case to the forefront. It’s been “trial and error” on her part. Sometimes you fail. Need for public to connect: we are “average people” “this could be my child” and it’s unfortunate, but we do have that “power to influence other people and how they handle the safety from their own lives.”

Q: LE says making progress … given false hopes? DY: There has been a lot of progress, not apparent to general public. Not found Ky yet, but have a LOT, of circumstantial evidence tying TH to Ky’s disappearance; "150%" certain TH is the person that “we’re needing to bring in and charge.” “That’s not the issue. It’s being able to not make the same mistake we did with Caycee Anthony in Caylee’s Anthony case: It’s extremely important to have the child first before charging the suspect.”

Q: Another search in mid/late August? (2013) DY: Yes. 10 dog teams; 2 NPOs; about 65 volunteers. Searched about 15 key areas “based on some information that I had and just my gut feelings overall as a mother.” Searched those areas “so that we could at least – if not find Kyron or find evidence – we could at least rule them out.”

Q: New discoveries? KY: “Yes. We did find at least two pieces of possible new evidence that are connected to Terri. We can’t divulge what those are. They’re considered what we call ‘hold-back items” or items that we don’t divulge the description of; but those are being investigated, looked at, and checked for DNA and all of those things through the law enforcement that picked it up.”

Q: Court stuff. KY: … dismissed civil suit because “law enforcement, the DA’s office specifically, would not turn over their file.”

Q: Layers of ‘who can say what’ re: divorce proceedings … frustrating? KY: Extremely. Ky’s rights no longer as important as Terri’s and her “right to plead the 5th Amendment. It’s frustrating and we can’t get answers, and we have to go a different route. But that doesn't mean I’m gonna give up.”

00:12:52
(General yak about Ky coverage/interest) DY: Plans to keep pressure on TH.

Signs off at 14:35 or so

Thank you, thank you, thank you for this :blowkiss:

I think this is so important. Just doesn't sound like a mother's "wishful thinking". It sounds like she know a LOT we don't know-which we've always figured anyway. Could it be a bluff? Of course. But my money's on DY all the way. She is one determined mama. Praying for the success of future searches rayer:

Sad to say it doesn't sound like she thinks Ky is alive (not that I've thought that either but I was definitely holding out hope that I was wrong.)

 

[Remove the covering]

Sorry. I'm going to jump back to Dr. Phil, briefly.

The discrepancy in reporting the "night before argument" is bugging me a bit. I just want to understand the motivation to deny a real argument or fabricate an imaginary one. It is too big an event to chalk up to memory problems.

No matter how much I turn it over, I just can't see a reason for KH to deny an argument intentionally. I guess he could feel guilty about not disclosing the level of conflict in the home, after the fact, but it doesn't seem like an established pattern for him to deny any of the family dysfunction, at this stage. I just don't see how he benefits from denying this event.

I do think TH may have told this story as a way to build an alliance with DY. "See, we both have conflict and fidelity problems with KH, not eachother." She was forging a relationship with DY so that she could control the narrative about what was happening at home, rather than KH. I've known several masterful manipulators who lie to build these bonds, just so they can't exploit them later. Ultimately, they are not loyal to anyone, but they create the false bonds with everyone.

Spend a little time with middle-school-aged girls. It is a crash course in relational aggression of this sort. Thankfully, most outgrow it.

I also wonder if the fight was intentionally discussed to cast a little suspicion on KH, you know, give him a bit of the old Zenaida treatment. Maybe put out some evidence of his volatility the night before. It seems like a person who could plot and plan something this dark would do little information sharing that wasn't for a purpose. It is not very effective, but still, maybe it was just a plan B diversionary tactic.


This is an interesting article. I think I'm allowed to link to it. The research has been criticized a bit, but it raises some interesting ideas.


http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...e-stepparents-more-likely-kill-their-children

 

[ami]

Sorry. I'm going to jump back to Dr. Phil, briefly.

The discrepancy in reporting the "night before argument" is bugging me a bit. I just want to understand the motivation to deny a real argument or fabricate an imaginary one. It is too big an event to chalk up to memory problems.

No matter how much I turn it over, I just can't see a reason for KH to deny an argument intentionally. I guess he could feel guilty about not disclosing the level of conflict in the home, after the fact, but it doesn't seem like an established pattern for him to deny any of the family dysfunction, at this stage. I just don't see how he benefits from denying this event.

I do think TH may have told this story as a way to build an alliance with DY. "See, we both have conflict and fidelity problems with KH, not eachother." She was forging a relationship with DY so that she could control the narrative about what was happening at home, rather than KH. I've known several masterful manipulators who lie to build these bonds, just so they can't exploit them later. Ultimately, they are not loyal to anyone, but they create the false bonds with everyone.

Spend a little time with middle-school-aged girls. It is a crash course in relational aggression of this sort. Thankfully, most outgrow it.

I also wonder if the fight was intentionally discussed to cast a little suspicion on KH, you know, give him a bit of the old Zenaida treatment. Maybe put out some evidence of his volatility the night before. It seems like a person who could plot and plan something this dark would do little information sharing that wasn't for a purpose. It is not very effective, but still, maybe it was just a plan B diversionary tactic.


This is an interesting article. I think I'm allowed to link to it. The research has been criticized a bit, but it raises some interesting ideas.


http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...e-stepparents-more-likely-kill-their-children

Do we know if Desiree was saying that TMH sent her (DY) the email about the fight, or if DY was saying that she was allowed to read an email TMH sent to someone else, as part of the investigation?

In other words I'm wondering if Terri was telling Desiree "Kaine and I had a big blowout, and then the next thing you know Kyron was gone!" or if Terri was writing to whoever her friends were after Kyron vanished and complaining about Kaine, victimizing herself, etc.

I also tend to believe Kaine because if they did have a huge fight, yes he would feel that massive guilt - they fought, maybe this was why she killed him - but it would also make Terri look even more guilty, and I'm not sure I believe Kaine would deny one source of his own guilt at the cost of taking away what would be a major motive/spark in the investigation of his son's disappearance. At the time he talked about this, he was already acknowledging that he cheated on Desiree and failed his son in the worst way - why would he draw the line at admitting they had an argument that would have pointed toward Terri's motive? It wouldn't make sense.

 

[sreshowtime]

that is an interesting article

 

[blefuscu]

BBM. There is no reason for her to blame herself or forgive herself. Regaining custody after you've signed off on it isn't that easy. There has to be a significant change in circumstances but those "changes" were withheld from DY. I think DY's emotion is anger and it will be with her for a very long time. I hope she finds Kyron so at least she'll have peace.

JMO

I totally agree. She has nothing to blame herself for. I don't think Kaine would have given Kyron back to DY without a fight. I believe TH is a hugely skilled manipulator. She was sending DY emails, and calling asking her to come and pick up Kyron, but Kaine had no clue how TH felt about Kyron.

Also she was a secret drinker according to Kaine. That, as I know myself from my active alcoholic days, takes a lot of deviance and manipulative actions. I don't blame either biological parent for Kyron going missing. But it makes me very angry that someone knows what happened to that boy and they aren't speaking up.