Kyron Horman General Discussion thread 2023 - 2026

  • #61
Happy belated Birthday, Kyron! I definitely was thinking of you - just didn't think I needed to post birthday wishes.

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  • #62
How do you murder a child? It's disgusting isn't it ? the motive is plain as day . poor Kyron. mOO
 
  • #63
Some movement in this case would be nice. Hopefully, the current investigators are more in tune with the FBI and will move away from Terri as a suspect. I don't see any other way this case gets solved.
 
  • #64
For some reason they can't seem to move away from her because nothing points to an alibi or to her innocence. mOO
 
  • #65
For some reason they can't seem to move away from her because nothing points to an alibi or to her innocence. mOO

Tunnel vision is sadly a hard thing to break out of. I would think Kyron disappearing between 8:45 and 10, and Terri having no opportunity to kill or otherwise hurt him, moving through public spaces and being seen in public without Kyron in multiple places, as well as no reliable witness having seen her leave the school with him, and at least one witness publicly stating that he saw her leave without him, would be enough.

And I think it was. I don't think the MCSO has operated under the theory that Terri herself took Kyron from the school for a long time, but rather that it was an accomplice. Her schedule simply doesn't allow for anything else. But they also haven't been able to find said "accomplice" in 13 years - probably because he isn't an accomplice but the actual culprit, no connection to Terri.
 
  • #66
For some reason they can't seem to move away from her because nothing points to an alibi or to her innocence. mOO
And if that's the case then they need to be looking at expanding their focus.
 
  • #67
Of course none of us knows what facts and evidence LE really has. There is a lot of speculation being presented as fact.
IMO, the case will be solved, Kyron will be brought home,and Terii will be in prison. Someday.
 
  • #68

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  • #69
Terri Moulton Horman-Vazquez has recently been posting photos of Kyron and commenting about him on her Facebook page. Desiree Young responded to one of her comments.


I think it's clear at this point that Desiree is working off some original scenario that she has developed since 2015 without input from LE. Nothing of this matches the info we have, or makes sense both with what we do know or even within itself. Why would Porter tell the chaperone that Kyron was probably in the bathroom or mark Kyron as absent at 10:00 if she knew he was with Terri and expected him back at 11:00? Why would Terri remove Kyron from the group for a personal tour between 8:15 and 8:45 when the groups didn't form until 8:45? Why did Gina Zimmerman say she saw Kyron and Terri by the project in the classroom at 8:15 if the events (picture-taking and tour) were reversed, as Desiree claims? Why, if Terri told everyone exactly what happened to Kyron - that he left with her - did the police feel any need to search the school and the surroundings? Why would they not have arrested her immediately when all those testimonies came to light?

Desiree's story doesn't make any sense. She only began to tell it (in its original form) in 2015, around the core events of 1. the photo being taken at 8:45 and 2. witnesses seeing Kyron and Terri leave together. I think it's pretty clear by now that neither of those are true, as Desiree's reconstruction shows.
 
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  • #70
To add to my point, here is what the book Boy Missing by Rebecca Morris (in which the info is supplied by Desiree) says:

In addition to the school-wide science fair that had brought hundreds of people to the school, there was an afternoon talent show. Kyron was not slated to be a part of it, so his absence still didn’t get anyone’s attention. Like his mother, Kyron was shy. He’d struggled to make it through a presentation about Portland’s Iron Bridge that he’d given to his class in April. He was anxious anytime there was a school concert or event that required him to speak or perform, even if it meant being just one of many in a class choir. In videos of school concerts and his talk about the bridge, Kyron looks happy but ill at ease.

This directly contradicts the story Desiree is telling now, only a few years later.
 
  • #71
Of course none of us knows what facts and evidence LE really has. There is a lot of speculation being presented as fact.
IMO, the case will be solved, Kyron will be brought home,and Terii will be in prison. Someday.
But when? It's been well over 12 yrs now. That seems like a long time to me.
 
  • #72
There are many cases solved after many more years than Kyron's. Sad but true.

Desiree isn't responsible for Kyron's disappearance, although it appears there are some who think she's hiding him somewhere. (Just looked at some FB pages, gahh.) I don't believe the information she's had has been static all these years; it doesn't make sense that she has access to exactly the same information today that she did 13 years ago.

But regardless of what she says or doesn't say, it doesn't change what Terri did on that day. Terri doesn't get a do-over, she's stuck with her murderous actions and will be held accountable.
 
  • #73
There are many cases solved after many more years than Kyron's. Sad but true.

Which are usually solved after the investigation changes hands and direction - sorely needed here.

Desiree isn't responsible for Kyron's disappearance, although it appears there are some who think she's hiding him somewhere. (Just looked at some FB pages, gahh.) I don't believe the information she's had has been static all these years; it doesn't make sense that she has access to exactly the same information today that she did 13 years ago.

I dont think that holds up. If for nothing else than Desiree has been backdating her new information in the Morris book.

In chapter 24, which takes place on June 27th 2010, she says the police gave her the information regarding the witnesses (bus driver, CL and relatives) who allegedly claimed to have seen Kyron leave with Terri at 8:50. Yet two months after this supposedly took place, Desiree and Kaine have an interview on August 27th where they say the following:

Reporter: Potentially one person in the truck... three people... the white truck, Terri's truck... can you talk...

Desiree: (interrupts) Kaine's truck (laughs)

Reporter: a little bit about that...

Reporter: Kaine's truck. I'm sorry... What are your thoughts on that new information? Do you feel as though Dede was in that truck?

Desiree: (interrupts) It just makes me feel stronger that, that there were people helping her... that Kyron saw it all and was involved and that there were other people helping her... which is what we suspected.

Reporter: So because... but do you believe that a man was spotted? I mean again, these are witness accounts, and I don't know how much information that you've been privy to about what the, what is the likeliest scenario?

Desiree: Well first of all, why would Kyron even be outside the school? Why would he even be near a truck with somebody else in it?

You know. I mean it's significant in a huge way to the case. If the timeline played out the way that it supposedly did? That contradicts that completely.

So I mean, other than that (shrugs), that's how significant it was to me.

The talk about the timeline being different? That Kyron was seen near a truck with "somebody else" in it? And the earlier posters asking about the truck on the access road? None of it makes sense in light of the supposed witness statements.

The same is true for the change in the timeline - putting the photo after the tour with Terri, contrary to Gina Zimmerman and all early reporting. Desiree has given different versions of finding this out, first telling a podcast that it was recent and found by technology, but in the Morris book (chapter 3) she say Terri herself gave that version in her very first conversation with the detectives. Again, completely counter to what everyone else said at the time - which is the same as Terri has told since 2010.

Even if we ignore Desiree's backdating of the information, why wouldn't her information be static? These are all things that would be known within days of the abduction. Up until last year Desiree was saying Kyron wasn't supposed to be in the talent show - what new info would emerge that made her do a 180 this very year, that wouldn't be there 13 years ago?

But regardless of what she says or doesn't say, it doesn't change what Terri did on that day. Terri doesn't get a do-over, she's stuck with her murderous actions and will be held accountable.

Terri didn't do anything to Kyron that day. There isn't any evidence she did, nor did she have time to do so, a place to do so or motive to do so. She has never been indicted by a Grand Jury, and won't be so in the future.
 
  • #74
Which are usually solved after the investigation changes hands and direction - sorely needed here.



I dont think that holds up. If for nothing else than Desiree has been backdating her new information in the Morris book.

In chapter 24, which takes place on June 27th 2010, she says the police gave her the information regarding the witnesses (bus driver, CL and relatives) who allegedly claimed to have seen Kyron leave with Terri at 8:50. Yet two months after this supposedly took place, Desiree and Kaine have an interview on August 27th where they say the following:



The talk about the timeline being different? That Kyron was seen near a truck with "somebody else" in it? And the earlier posters asking about the truck on the access road? None of it makes sense in light of the supposed witness statements.

The same is true for the change in the timeline - putting the photo after the tour with Terri, contrary to Gina Zimmerman and all early reporting. Desiree has given different versions of finding this out, first telling a podcast that it was recent and found by technology, but in the Morris book (chapter 3) she say Terri herself gave that version in her very first conversation with the detectives. Again, completely counter to what everyone else said at the time - which is the same as Terri has told since 2010.

Even if we ignore Desiree's backdating of the information, why wouldn't her information be static? These are all things that would be known within days of the abduction. Up until last year Desiree was saying Kyron wasn't supposed to be in the talent show - what new info would emerge that made her do a 180 this very year, that wouldn't be there 13 years ago?



Terri didn't do anything to Kyron that day. There isn't any evidence she did, nor did she have time to do so, a place to do so or motive to do so. She has never been indicted by a Grand Jury, and won't be so in the future.
Never say never, you might be surprised one day.
 
  • #75
There are many cases solved after many more years than Kyron's. Sad but true.

Desiree isn't responsible for Kyron's disappearance, although it appears there are some who think she's hiding him somewhere. (Just looked at some FB pages, gahh.) I don't believe the information she's had has been static all these years; it doesn't make sense that she has access to exactly the same information today that she did 13 years ago.

But regardless of what she says or doesn't say, it doesn't change what Terri did on that day. Terri doesn't get a do-over, she's stuck with her murderous actions and will be held accountable.
I think that the human mind can do weird things with memory, esp at times of trauma. Moo
 
  • #76
Never say never, you might be surprised one day.

Nothing is certain of course, though I do feel obligated to counter absolute statements with those of my own.

But I stand by what I said. The MCSO hasn't been actively investigating this case for a long time. They believe they know who did it, but they have no evidence she did, so they're stuck. In my opinion, this case was bungled in the first weeks. They zeroed in on Terri before they had even interviewed everyone at school. And they changed their tack from gathering witness statements to pressuring Terri two weeks after the abduction, with the distribution of a poster with her face on it as well as the Horman truck. And while they're currently deep in the sunk cost fallacy, the initial events that triggered their suspicions (as far as I can see) are either invalid or were later shown to be wrong:

* June 4th. Desiree going to the investigators the first night to tell them she thought Terri was responsible. If this actually happened, it makes sense that the investigators would become suspicious, but according to Desiree herself her suspicion was based on the false notion that Terri wouldn't have been able to see Kyron's classroom from where she stood.

* June 7th. Polygraphs. They are, of course, bunk and should never enter into a serious investigation, but here they seem to have been given importance based on statements by Kaine, Tony and Dede. If Terri failed her initial polygraph, and the MCSO genuinely believed their silly toy was a lie detector? Another unfair strike against her.

* June 10th. Sauvie Island. The leaked reason for the sudden search of the island was that cell phone pings had placed Terri on the island. We know from leaked emails that Terri was dumbfounded by this, stating she had only been on hwy 30, not on the island. To the MCSO this would be a clear lie from her - and indeed that's what everyone else thought too. Look back at this forum in those early days, and see how many used the cell phone pings as a clear indication of Terri's guilt. Of course, at some point the MCSO realized that they were wrong - the ping did not have to have originated on the island, and indeed the cell tower was by hwy 30, where Terri was. But that was much, much later.

And at this point, the tunnel vision sets in. They have someone the family is suspicious of and who (they believe) lied to them. So the investigation goes into pressure mode. June 18th the poster of Terri and the white truck goes out. At this point, any sighting of a white truck on June 4th becomes a sighting of Terri's truck in the public mind. As an example, on this forum much digital ink was spilled over Chas who said he saw Terri in the white truck at hwy 30 on June 4th - however on a time that would later prove it couldn't be her. Chas himself admitted that he had only called in the tip after the posters had appeared.

At some point the police must have realized that Terri's timeline began to solidify in a way that made it very unlikely for her to have taken Kyron. Receipts, CCTV, witness statements placed her at where she said she had been between 9 and 10, and there were sightings of Kyron at the school after 9. Not to mention the whispers of a strange man at the school. So since Terri was guilty in their eyes (she had lied to them, after all) it had to have been an accomplice. A bit of digging into her finances and what do they find? A landscaper hired by Terri whose presence was hidden from Kaine. Jackpot! The MCSO must have thought they had their man, and (imo) they leaned on him heavily to get him to confess. I very much suspect the MFH "confession" was the landscaper's way of giving the MCSO something and get them off his back. It wouldn't be the first time someone made a false accusation under pressure.

Unfortunately (for everyone involved) the MCSO decided to prove this by a harebrained scheme involving the landscaper wearing a wire in a sting operation, along with turning Kaine against Terri and getting him and his daughter out of the house. Apparently they hadn't planned for the whole thing to backfire, which it did. Terri called the police on the sting, ended up with a lawyer who had no patience for police malarkey and Kaine's immediate divorce proceedings now became tangled up in the criminal investigation, creating a legal mess that would last for over three years. Still, the police kept up their strategy. Friends who stood by Terri were investigated and interrogated, their homes searched - all of them ended up distancing themselves from Terri. One friend, Dede Spicher, declined to take a polygraph, a sensible move, but the result is that the next day Kaine and Desiree outed her to the media, telling the world that she isn't cooperating. Soon her face too was put on posters.

While the landscaper was eliminated as an accomplice (apparently), and Dede doesn't seem to have been seriously considered as one, the police were reduced to asking the public about someone seen sitting in Terri's truck (aka, a white truck) at the school. No description or even gender was given about this individual, but I suspect the Dede posters backfired as soon it was leaked that the police didn't think the mystery person was Dede. If you ask me why this individual was never given a description, it's because they could never link him to anyone, least of all Terri, or find his identity. By giving out the description of an unknown man not linked to Terri they'd hand her ammunition for her upcoming trial.

Though that may have been optimistic on their part. They put the case before a Grand Jury, and while the results were secret, by October it certainly looked like they got no-billed - a rare occasion of the ham sandwich walking. This is when you notice the investigation dying down. You get some drip, drip as the police release dirt on Terri through Kaine and Desiree, and some more searches of Sauvie Island and surrounding areas, but little more. By 2011, what little info we get is that the MCSO are looking into things like a fire at Terri's parents garage in the 90s, or a prison snitch who claims to have been hired by Terri to murder her boyfriend. None of which have anything to do with Kyron, even if they weren't incredibly weak. In 2013 Dede relents and takes the polygraph, which doesn't change anything since her story remains the same as in 2010. What is the investigator's immediate follow-up? To plan another sting operation with Dede! She sensibly declined. Then Terri gets into some trouble after having moved to California. She's acquitted of the charges, but it's clear that the MCSO is sniffing at these cases. So for seven years, the investigative tactic appears to have been "let's poke and prod Terri until we can get anything to stick."

2017 seems to be the last time we get info on the Grand Jury (still meeting, according to legal documents). Since Oregon requires a court order to empanel a new Grand Jury in the same case, that would imply some new evidence, no? Well, turns out Multnomah county had a clever (and illegal) work-around - they just "forgot" to register their no-bills. After getting caught in 2019 we haven't heard anything about a Grand Jury in Kyron's case. I don't think that's a coincidence.

The case isn't moving. They aren't doing searches. If Terri is the actual culprit, what could they possibly do to get her? They've basically tried everything, and nothing worked. You would think that at this point a fresh set of eyes and a new direction would be welcome.
 
  • #77
Never say never, you might be surprised one day.
So might you be should it turn out that Terri didn't do this. There's a whole lot of "never say never" to go around.
 
  • #78
@FergusMcDuck - excellent points. I feel bad your post will most likely be wasted on those who have already tried and convicted Terri in the court of public opinion, if they read it at all. But I always appreciate the voice of reason.
 
  • #79
@FergusMcDuck - excellent points. I feel bad your post will most likely be wasted on those who have already tried and convicted Terri in the court of public opinion, if they read it at all. But I always appreciate the voice of reason.
I don't mind disagreement, and I'm certainly quite fallible. But I would like to know what makes people think the case is being worked on and just what they're doing. Try as I might, I see nothing.
 
  • #80
I don't mind disagreement, and I'm certainly quite fallible. But I would like to know what makes people think the case is being worked on and just what they're doing. Try as I might, I see nothing.
I always wonder what's going on behind the scenes, if anything. We only seem to hear about the case if/when something happens, so we really have no way of knowing. I think at this point investigators are taking a passive, wait and see approach. Not saying they don't investigate tips that come in, or follow up on any leads, but unless we hear about it in the media, it certainly appears the case has stalled.

Two other things which have also bothered me about how Kyron's case has been handled, and I'm going off of memory here, so I'm open to correction if I'm remembering wrong.

I recall a couple of years after Kyron went missing, MCSO mentioned in the media they were going to start examining pictures of the science fair. Not reexamine them, as in taking a second or third look with closer scrutiny, but starting the process. This blew my mind. I thought they had been doing that all along, or had done so already. I remember investigators asking for pictures and videos taken at the science fair from the get-go, but the article made it sound like they were still soliciting them and hadn't even looked at the ones they had yet. That could have simply been poor reporting, but it was worded in such a way as to imply they hadn't even started yet.

In another article around the same time, investigators said they were looking at registered SO's in the area. Again, this was years after.

These were two searches I would have hoped investigators would have been conducting since the beginning, concurrent with their investigation into Terri and searching for Kyron, but, based on those later articles, it sounded like they hadn't. Or were slow to get started. I lost faith in the investigation at that point. If they hadn't interviewed SO's or gone over pictures with a fine tooth comb from the beginning, they really did Kyron a disservice.
 

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