Kyron Horman General Discussion thread 2023 - 2026

[KristopherKolumbo]

I believe Terri is innocent

Do you actually believe that?

Innocent. Noted.

Of course. There are agents all over the internet working in chats to peddle influence. Some more obvious that
others.

I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are playing devil's advocate with this line of pro TH/anti D theorizing. That becomes more of a challenge when you proclaim TH's innocence. That flirts with agenda.

What i can understand and where i officially sit, in spite of my gut feeling, is an open verdict. It would be irresponsible to rule anyone out at this time. And that is more than fair to TH.

Here's what we do know.

8:45 - given as the last time Terri saw Kyron (1 2 3 4). This is also when the bell rang (5).
9:00 - the police ask for anyone who saw Terri's truck in the Hillsboro Fred Meyer parking lot (6). Google maps has the driving time between Skyline and FM as 9 minutes (not counting walking to and from the car, strapping in the baby, etc) (7)
9:12 - Terri claims in an email to have a receipt from the Hillsboro Fred Meyer with that timestamp (8 9 10)
9:30 - some time after this time but before 10:00, Terri meets with Andrea L in the Beaverton Fred Meyer. The witness saw the baby in Terri's arms, noted that she was not feeling well, and that Terri showed her the picture of Kyron at the fair. (11 12) Google maps has the driving time between FM1 and FM2 as 8-10 minutes (again, not counting additional time) (13)
10:00 - the police ask for anyone who saw Terri's truck in the Beaverton Fred Meyer parking lot. (14)
(witnesses from Magic Cleaners dry clener in the Beaverton FM building say Terri entered their store, probably during this timespan - 9:30-10:00 - but not confirmed) (15)
10:15 - the start of the time Terri was driving on rural roads to keep the baby asleep, which she says ultimately failed. (16) We don't know her exact route, but according to leaked emails she told friends she was up on highway 30 but never on Sauvie Island. (17) She also said she gave her daughter medicine and sat in the truck for a while to get her to sleep before starting the drive. (18)
11:39 - the 24 Hour Fitness gym clocks Terri coming in with the baby. (19)

What we know?

"TH claims.. TH said..." Since when is hearsay from a POI credible let alone definitive? Provide the audio, video or physical evidence and then we can talk.

There is no such evidence to document THs whereabouts in the time between leaving the school and arriving at the gym, some 3 hours.

Has the exonerating receipt been provided & documented?

Dry cleaner claim is unsubstantiated.

Andrea Leckey is related to TH. Conflict of interest. If TH was in a Fred Meyer store and parking lot, how come there aren't any images of her from FM cameras. In fact she claims she went to 2 FM stores in that time period. But no evidence.

Convenient story that she's on "rural roads/sitting in the truck" during this time. And DD's whereabouts are in question?

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Innocent. Noted.

Of course. There are agents all over the internet working in chats to peddle influence. Some more obvious that
others.

I always thought that was a ridiculous accusation from people who can't accept that others can come to other conclusions than they have.

I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are playing devil's advocate with this line of pro TH/anti D theorizing. That becomes more of a challenge when you proclaim TH's innocence. That flirts with agenda.

Personalizing like this is against Websleuths rules, though.

What i can understand and where i officially sit, in spite of my gut feeling, is an open verdict. It would be irresponsible to rule anyone out at this time. And that is more than fair to TH.

The timing takes it over the edge for me.

What we know?

"TH claims.. TH said..." Since when is hearsay from a POI credible let alone definitive? Provide the audio, video or physical evidence and then we can talk.

There is no such evidence to document THs whereabouts in the time between leaving the school and arriving at the gym, some 3 hours.

Except for CCTV and witness statements.

Has the exonerating receipt been provided & documented?

No, but we do know she was at the store at that time, so it's another point in her favor.

Dry cleaner claim is unsubstantiated.

The staff were interviewed by Kyle Iboshi and confirmed Terri had entered, as the link I gave said.

Andrea Leckey is related to TH. Conflict of interest.

Related? Leckey was an acquaintance from the gym, that's not a conflict of interest.

If TH was in a Fred Meyer store and parking lot, how come there aren't any images of her from FM cameras. In fact she claims she went to 2 FM stores in that time period. But no evidence.

Except the CCTV footage was provided and verified, and Terri's truck was in it. Not only does Desiree admit to this in the Morris book, the embedded text in the files of the fliers clearly state that Terri's truck was visible on the CCTV.

Sources tell KGW that Terri has told friends and investigators that she stopped by the two stores, and investigators have verified those statements. Sources say investigators now want to know if anyone was seen with her.

IMG_0134 Corn Pass Fred Meyers, looking from Terris parking spot.JPG

IMG_0158 View from the enterence and exit at Walker Rd Fred Meyers, Looking at Terri parking spot on the far rock wa.JPG

Convenient story that she's on "rural roads/sitting in the truck" during this time. And DD's whereabouts are in question?

None of this matters. Kyron vanished from school between 8:45 and 10:00 (when his absence was noted). During this time, both Terri and Dede had alibis confirmed by witness statements. The "convenient story" and Dede's whereabouts take place after this time.

 

[KristopherKolumbo]

I always thought that was a ridiculous accusation from people who can't accept that others can come to other conclusions than they have.

Sure thing.

Personalizing like this is against Websleuths rules, though.

Fair enough. I just don't see a lot of sleuthers here working so hard to convince of a widely considered questionable POIs innocence. Why is it so important she be considered innocent when the crime is yet to be solved? Doesn't serve the purpose of the investigation. It only serves 1 person, and it's not Kyron.

IMO TH can be exonerated when the case is solved and it's not her.

Related? Leckey was an acquaintance from the gym, that's not a conflict of interest.

This is from your link:

Kyron Horman Update: Witness Saw Stepmother Day 7-Year-Old Vanished - Crimesider - CBS News

Ore. Boy Vanished June 4 Following a Science Fair at Skyline Elementary School Read more by Edecio Martinez on CBS News' Crimesider.

web.archive.org

Kyron vanished June 4 following a science fair at Skyline Elementary School.
That same day, between 9:30 and 10 a.m., Andrea Leckey ran into his stepmother, Terri Horman, at a Fred Meyer Department store in Beaverton, west of Portland. Lecky said it was the longest encounter they ever had.

Grand jury witness dubs encounter with Kyron Horman's stepmother 'odd,' according to KOIN

Andrea Leckey tells KOIN 6 a chance grocery store conversation with Terri Moulton Horman on June 4 in Beaverton was the longest she ever remembered.

www.oregonlive.com

Except for CCTV and witness statements.
No, but we do know she was at the store at that time, so it's another point in her favor.

There are confirmed sightings of a similar looking white truck but nothing to specifically confirm regarding TH, DD or KH related to these sightings.

Maybe i missed it. Is there FM or other camera footage of TH between the school and the gym? Other than pics of a white truck in the parking lot?

"Another point in her favor." - That's just, odd.

Kyron vanished from school between 8:45 and 10:00 (when his absence was noted). During this time, both Terri and Dede had alibis confirmed by witness statements.

If this was accurate, no one would continue to question THs involvement. The alibis in question here are a matter of opinion.

The "convenient story" and Dede's whereabouts take place after this time.

And? While Kyron vanished from school between 8:45 and 10:00, It's absolutely imperative to know TH & DDs actions and whereabouts after 10. For anyone concerned with finding KH.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Sure thing.

Fair enough. I just don't see a lot of sleuthers here working so hard to convince of a widely considered questionable POIs innocence. Why is it so important she be considered innocent when the crime is yet to be solved? Doesn't serve the purpose of the investigation. It only serves 1 person, and it's not Kyron.

The investigators have focused on Terri for fourteen years, with zero results. It would serve the investigation to change that perspective, because it obviously isn't working.

IMO TH can be exonerated when the case is solved and it's not her.

This is from your link:

Kyron Horman Update: Witness Saw Stepmother Day 7-Year-Old Vanished - Crimesider - CBS News

Ore. Boy Vanished June 4 Following a Science Fair at Skyline Elementary School Read more by Edecio Martinez on CBS News' Crimesider.

web.archive.org

Kyron vanished June 4 following a science fair at Skyline Elementary School.
That same day, between 9:30 and 10 a.m., Andrea Leckey ran into his stepmother, Terri Horman, at a Fred Meyer Department store in Beaverton, west of Portland. Lecky said it was the longest encounter they ever had.

Grand jury witness dubs encounter with Kyron Horman's stepmother 'odd,' according to KOIN

Andrea Leckey tells KOIN 6 a chance grocery store conversation with Terri Moulton Horman on June 4 in Beaverton was the longest she ever remembered.

www.oregonlive.com

That's Kyron's stepmother, not Andrea's.

There are confirmed sightings of a similar looking white truck but nothing to specifically confirm regarding TH, DD or KH related to these sightings.

Maybe i missed it. Is there FM or other camera footage of TH between the school and the gym? Other than pics of a white truck in the parking lot?

Yes, as the link I gave said, they have verified her in those locations. Here's another one:

The infection plays a key role in what Terri claims she did after the science fair. Surveillance video shows she visited two different Fred Meyer stores to get medication for {her daughter].

The question the police asked wasn't if the truck was there, it was if anyone had seen anyone else by it. Furthermore we have a witness placing her at the Beaverton Fred Meyer, with her daughter and without Kyron.

"Another point in her favor." - That's just, odd.

If she didn't have a receipt, but we know she was there at that time, what purpose would be gained by lying about it?

If this was accurate, no one would continue to question THs involvement. The alibis in question here are a matter of opinion.

The problem here is that there are two views of Terri's culpability. One is the popular view, championed by Desiree and her facebook groups, and most amateur sleuthers believing she's guilty. Terri somehow took Kyron from school and disposed of him that morning, with or without Dede.

But there's no indication that is the police opinion. Kaine has spoken about there being another, unknown suspect (that he believes is connected to Terri).

"Somebody else is involved with his disappearance and we need investigators to continue to focus on other avenues that might reveal who those person or persons are," said Kaine Horman.

From the start, the police have targeted a landscaper, Dede, a mysterious unknown person sitting in the truck. No question has ever been asked if anyone saw Kyron in Terri's truck at the Fred Meyers, just if she met with someone else while there.

So I believe the evidence points to the police going with an unknown associate of Terri's doing the actual deed (and then perhaps meeting up on Sauvie Island when they still believed she pinged there). And in that case her 9-10 alibi wouldn't matter. But they've had 14 years, and have apparently not found a single shred of evidence of this mystery person or his connection to Terri.

And? While Kyron vanished from school between 8:45 and 10:00, It's absolutely imperative to know TH & DDs actions and whereabouts after 10. For anyone concerned with finding KH.

But it means they weren't the ones who took him.

 

[minazoe]

it always surprises me when someone who is educated and has had so many opportunities in life ends up in a low class lifestyle of crime, violence and alcoholism. it also surprises me that Terri has found people who would actually marry her. she is the only criminal who was in Kyron's inner circle, she is the violent person who stabbed someone...she is a known liar and a drunk. she has no excuse..no alibi and people saw her. I pray for break in this case and to see her in prison where she belongs..mOO

 

[Laura456]

I know so many wonderful, kind people who can't get a decent date, and she's married again? I assume her standards are low.

 

[rosesfromangels]

One thing I've learned after years of reading and participating on many, many WS threads, is that things aren't always as they appear. I can think of two threads in particular where I was 100% certain, 100%! that someone was guilty. They weren't. I've also had a thread where I was certain someone was innocent - they weren't. In all three cases I am thinking of, I was "absolutely certain" based on known data and facts.

I've learned that I process information through my life's filter. The experiences I've had, definitely play a role in how I perceive, and process data.

As far as the missing subject's step mother is concerned, I will say there has been a notable amount of concerning circumstantial data that merits continued analysis and consideration. I am particularly troubled by the *alleged* murder for hire plot against her then husband Kaine. That said, there was never any proof of that allegation, and as such, it falls in the speculation bucket.

And that's the crux of where we are. Seemingly, lots of circumstantial evidence, but no hard proof. The DA will not want to arrest and seek prosecution until such time as they believe they can convict. So regardless of whether we think the stepmother and her friend DDS are complicit, or not, it doesn't matter. No hard evidence = no arrest and conviction.

Do I think this missing persons case will ever resolve? Yes, I do. *If* the allegations and speculations are even close to being accurate, I think eventually an unknown third party will provide the tip needed for closure. The tip could come anonymously, or as a bargaining chip to reduce some other offense.

Those who believe in the guilt of certain individuals should have some comfort in speculating that the guilty are constantly looking over their shoulders, and jump when there is a knock at the door.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Vegan1234]

One thing that resonates with me is the Grand Jury. The one group who we know met at least 3 separate times with 3 sets of new jurors who have heard it all. They spoke to witnesses, and the prosecution presents their side only. Everything they feel shows Terri is guilty. It only takes 4 out of 7 jurors to get a true bill. These are people from the community and not one time has an indictment been filed. There is a phrase out there that “you can indict a ham sandwich.” And generally when it comes to a missing child they usually side with the prosecution to better be safe than sorry. If nothing happens with the current DA, I think it’s time some folks start reevaluating what they believe they are hearing. It wouldn’t be the first time Kaine has addressed the media to suggest there is a different side he’s been told than what Desiree has made statements about. He’s said at his car expo as recently as this year that he’s been told not to give up hope that Kyron is still out there…alive.

 

[rosesfromangels]

...he’s been told not to give up hope that Kyron is still out there…alive.

Respectfully snipped for focused reply.
If only. : (
I speculate poor sweet Kyron was murdered within an hour of his disappearance.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[FergusMcDuck]

I know so many wonderful, kind people who can't get a decent date, and she's married again? I assume her standards are low.

From what I've seen he seems a nice, stable fellow and they look happy together. Good for them!

 

[Boxer]

This case is so old I do not have links handy that show her saying one thing, and then turning around and saying another. I'm sure it's all here in the dozens of threads for this case, which is why posters are saying her info is changing. They've seen her say one thing, and then another.

With that said, Kaine himself, on national TV said her story "changed daily". I most definitely believe Kaine.

She would change her story daily, if not more than that, Kaine told Oprah. Every time you talked to her, it was a little bit different about what happened that day.

Kaine tells Oprah (Terri) 'would change her story daily'

Parents of missing Portland boy Kyron Horman appealed to millions of viewers on the Oprah Winfrey show Thursday at 4 p.m., more than 13 weeks into his disappearance.

www.kgw.com

I don't know about a sweatshirt, but here's a post about a bloody sock with a link to the source.

Thread '7/24/10 - Law professor finds bloody child sock on Black Butte & questions the system'

Jul 25, 2010

A bloody find on Black Butte and a broken system

On a recent Friday afternoon, I drove south out of Portland, headed for the soul-restoring Santiam Pass to my cabin on the Metolius River in Camp Sherman. It had been a busy workday, the day following our wedding anniversary, and the glorious Central Oregon night, with a huge moon and countless crystal stars in a clear sky, was all I'd hoped for.

Little did I know that in the next 24 hours, a routine morning hike and the discovery of a bloody sock on the trailhead would lead me into a...

• darlin gal
• Replies: 115
• Forum: Kyron Horman

By now its either Kyron's blood or not.
There should have been a massive search in that are after the sock found if it was even his blood type.

 

[Tricia]

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[Lkat3513]

Did anyone speculate as to why she had to go into 2 different Fred Meyer's stores? That's like going into 2 different Walmarts. Same products, same prices but she went to 2 different stores, within a short time of each other. Why?

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Did anyone speculate as to why she had to go into 2 different Fred Meyer's stores? That's like going into 2 different Walmarts. Same products, same prices but she went to 2 different stores, within a short time of each other. Why?

She was looking for medicine. They were out at the first Fred Meyer, so she went to the other.

 

[Vegan1234]

She was looking for medicine. They were out at the first Fred Meyer, so she went to the other.

Curious if the GJ asked to talk to the Fred Meijer worker at the first one she visited? The prosecution presents their case but the GJ is allowed to call witnesses.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Curious if the GJ asked to talk to the Fred Meijer worker at the first one she visited? The prosecution presents their case but the GJ is allowed to call witnesses.

They talked to witnesses from the Starbucks attached to the Frist Fred Meyer, at least.

 

[Vegan1234]

ADMIN NOTE:

Reference to a tire was a rumor that was discussed at an external source. If a linked source discusses a rumor, please do not bring the rumor to WS for discussion.

Also, we had a Report of a problem with a link that went to a *advertiser censored* site, but I am not finding any post with such a problem. Possibly the link was wonky and was remedied in the length of time allowed for editing.

Unfortunately this case is going on 15yrs the links no longer work. Even in the way back machine search. I can post links they just won’t open…. :/

 

[pinall]

By now its either Kyron's blood or not.
There should have been a massive search in that are after the sock found if it was even his blood type.

One thing I've learned after years of reading and participating on many, many WS threads, is that things aren't always as they appear. I can think of two threads in particular where I was 100% certain, 100%! that someone was guilty. They weren't. I've also had a thread where I was certain someone was innocent - they weren't. In all three cases I am thinking of, I was "absolutely certain" based on known data and facts.

I've learned that I process information through my life's filter. The experiences I've had, definitely play a role in how I perceive, and process data.

As far as the missing subject's step mother is concerned, I will say there has been a notable amount of concerning circumstantial data that merits continued analysis and consideration. I am particularly troubled by the *alleged* murder for hire plot against her then husband Kaine. That said, there was never any proof of that allegation, and as such, it falls in the speculation bucket.

And that's the crux of where we are. Seemingly, lots of circumstantial evidence, but no hard proof. The DA will not want to arrest and seek prosecution until such time as they believe they can convict. So regardless of whether we think the stepmother and her friend DDS are complicit, or not, it doesn't matter. No hard evidence = no arrest and conviction.

Do I think this missing persons case will ever resolve? Yes, I do. *If* the allegations and speculations are even close to being accurate, I think eventually an unknown third party will provide the tip needed for closure. The tip could come anonymously, or as a bargaining chip to reduce some other offense.

Those who believe in the guilt of certain individuals should have some comfort in speculating that the guilty are constantly looking over their shoulders, and jump when there is a knock at the door.

Amateur opinion and speculation

So true rosesfromangels! I am new to the site but have been following this tragic case from its inception. The one thing that keeps coming to mind is the church across the street from the school. Given the close proximity and the timeline of Kyron's disappearance, it seems an ideal place to hide someone until the coast was clear. I wonder how well it was searched given the critical situation law enforcement faced at the time. I fervently pray for Kyron and his family!

 

[Boxer]

So true rosesfromangels! I am new to the site but have been following this tragic case from its inception. The one thing that keeps coming to mind is the church across the street from the school. Given the close proximity and the timeline of Kyron's disappearance, it seems an ideal place to hide someone until the coast was clear. I wonder how well it was searched given the critical situation law enforcement faced at the time. I fervently pray for Kyron and his family!

I looked but sidnt see the church, can you point it out to me? Thanks.
Does anyone know whether Skyline was K-8 at the time of Kyron's disappearance.

 

[Alleykins]

I looked but sidnt see the church, can you point it out to me? Thanks.
Does anyone know whether Skyline was K-8 at the time of Kyron's disappearance.

There is a church across the street from the school. IIRC, investigators set up a headquarters there during the initial searches, but I'm going from memory here. Yes, Skyline was K-8 at the time of Kyron's disappearance, which means older students were also attending.