Kyron's case on Dr. Phil 9/17 *includes tape of the show*

[scandi]

Respectfully and MOO.

The emails are evidence in an active criminal investigation, of course "we" have not seen them.

"I" do not "know" they are manipulation or fabrication.

Hi Knox, I remember Terri sent an email to I believe KOIN TV in Portland and I did watch that news show. In it she recounted where she had driven around on the day he went missing among other things. I'd have to refresh my memory.

I guess what I'm saying is I haven't heard this email referred to here.

 

[human]

Does anyone else remember way back when that Houze said TMH would be indicted?

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Does anyone else remember way back when that Houze said TMH would be indicted?

:seeya: I don't recall him saying she would be indicted ...

But he did call Terri a "de facto suspect" ...

Here is a link of a timeline from the Oregonian where it is mentioned on August 25:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_chronology_of_eve.html


Hope this helps ...

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Does anyone else remember way back when that Houze said TMH would be indicted?

From the Oregonian :

In a legal memo filed today, Bunch argues that Terri Horman can't proceed at this time to protect her rights to property, custody and parenting time because she is a "de facto suspect" in the disappearance of Kyron and at the center of a police investigation.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_moulton_horman_appears_i.html

 

[human]

This is hard to read. But a lawyer said that he would not be surprised if she got arrested

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/38449072/sports/player_news/

 

[Donjeta]

I would not be surprised at all if her lawyer is not working out an arrangement with the district attorney for some sort of immunity. Because under Oregon law, the grand jury can compel her to testify, but if they do so they have to grant her immunity.

Is this true? (From human's link)
If it is, then maybe that's why DS got immunity? She was compelled to testify?

 

[noonie]

Indict her already! What is going on here?

 

[Mollyandme]

just wanted to say that i was sure TMH wasn't involved, but after reading from some of the wonderful posters on here, I am now back to sitting on the fence. where there's smoke, theres fire, and theres way too much smoke around TMH that I can't reconcile in my mind. thank you to all those who post their links and remind us of the facts. it's much appreciated.

 

[VictimsSide]

IIRC, DY had custody of Kyron, but turned him over to KH whilst she was getting treatment in Canada for a medical issue. Having family in Canada myself, the backlog for appointments, treatments or surgery is extensive. You often wait 6 months or more for a knee or hip replacement surgery. You have to be prepared to drop everything if you get a call with an unexpected opening in a doctors office or treatment center. I recall this is why DY turned Kyron over to his dad, while she sought medical care. Upon completion of her medical treatment, KH refused to return Kyron to her and won custody. I am sure other members will recall these statements as well. I would love to supply a link, but everytime I switch screens, my 10 year old laptop freezes and crashes. It has taken me almost an hour to post just this, so my apologies for no link and perhaps another member would be kind enough to recall this as well and where the info came from. Regards.

 

[iamnotagolem]

IIRC, DY had custody of Kyron, but turned him over to KH whilst she was getting treatment in Canada for a medical issue. Having family in Canada myself, the backlog for appointments, treatments or surgery is extensive. You often wait 6 months or more for a knee or hip replacement surgery. You have to be prepared to drop everything if you get a call with an unexpected opening in a doctors office or treatment center. I recall this is why DY turned Kyron over to his dad, while she sought medical care. Upon completion of her medical treatment, KH refused to return Kyron to her and won custody. I am sure other members will recall these statements as well. I would love to supply a link, but everytime I switch screens, my 10 year old laptop freezes and crashes. It has taken me almost an hour to post just this, so my apologies for no link and perhaps another member would be kind enough to recall this as well and where the info came from. Regards.

Here is the article..

Kyron was born Sept. 9, 2002, and Kaine and Desiree were officially divorced in 2003. Kaine and Desiree shared custody, but Kyron mostly lived with Desiree until 2004, when she went to Canada after suffering kidney failure.

Two months after leaving for Canada, Desiree returned to the United States with $30,000 in medical bills. To get back on her feet, she moved in with her family in Medford, who helped support her.

Desiree never tried to regain custody of Kyron, though she has maintained a close relationship with her son, caring for him every weekend or so with her new husband, Medford police Detective Tony Young.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_hormans_blended_family_f.html

 

[eileenhawkeye]

For those who think Kaine is involved, what exactly do you think happened to Kyron? Where is he now? If Kyron is being held somewhere, well is he going to "come home" eventually? And when he does, wouldn't LE figure out Kaine was involved? And unless you think Kaine had Kyron killed, who exactly is Kyron staying with? And why would this person agree to take care of a child for 3 years? Are they a predator? I don't rule out Kaine being involved; I am just confused about what exactly Kaine's motive would be, and what exactly happened to Kyron.

 

[ami]

I've been wondering if Kaine, Desiree and her husband were ever investigated? I've been trying to find MSM articles that state that any of them have been clearedm but haven't found anything yet.

Yes, they were investigated. We wouldn't have access to any of that information (exactly what they were investigated about and cleared of specifically) in an ongoing investigation, but LE made it clear they were not focusing on any of the other parents (Kh, TY, DY).

I'm also confused about suspicion based on KH. I've never seen any evidence nor heard of any existing that would make him look suspicious. He has no motive. He has an alibi. He didn't want to "get rid of" Kyron, as he proved when Desiree and/or Terri broached the custody subject and Kaine acted as any loving parent would and chose to keep his son rather than giving him up. Both DY and KH WANTED Kyron, by all accounts and backed up by their actions. Even DY, who doesn't seem to like, trust or respect KH as an ex-husband/coparent still doesn't think he had any involvement.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Yes, they were investigated. We wouldn't have access to any of that information (exactly what they were investigated about and cleared of specifically) in an ongoing investigation, but LE made it clear they were not focusing on any of the other parents (Kh, TY, DY).

I'm also confused about suspicion based on KH. I've never seen any evidence nor heard of any existing that would make him look suspicious. He has no motive. He has an alibi. He didn't want to "get rid of" Kyron, as he proved when Desiree and/or Terri broached the custody subject and Kaine acted as any loving parent would and chose to keep his son rather than giving him up. Both DY and KH WANTED Kyron, by all accounts and backed up by their actions. Even DY, who doesn't seem to like, trust or respect KH as an ex-husband/coparent still doesn't think he had any involvement.

I'm not as suspicious of KH as DY (I feel like that makes me a terrible person) because she is the only one with motive. If Terri didn't want to be Kyrons parent all she had to do is walk away. Killing Kyron killed her relationship, so killing Kyron to keep Kaine isn't logical. If Terri really did want to send Kyron to live with Desiree and Desiree didn't want him, then getting rid of Kyron is her only option.

But then there is nothing to indicate that Kaine would have let Kyron live with Desiree, so again it doesn't make sense.

I just really would like to see parents cleared, it is easier to focus on other theories when the parents are publicly cleared. I know statistically parents are the most likely perp, but stranger abductions do happen.

Honestly, my best theory is someone else abducted Kyron from school, it was wide open, the science fair was publicized, no one was checked or questioned. Anyone could have walked into that school and grabbed Kyron as he was walking back to class.

 

[ami]

I'm not as suspicious of KH as DY (I feel like that makes me a terrible person) because she is the only one with motive. If Terri didn't want to be Kyrons parent all she had to do is walk away. Killing Kyron killed her relationship, so killing Kyron to keep Kaine isn't logical. If Terri really did want to send Kyron to live with Desiree and Desiree didn't want him, then getting rid of Kyron is her only option.

But then there is nothing to indicate that Kaine would have let Kyron live with Desiree, so again it doesn't make sense.

I just really would like to see parents cleared, it is easier to focus on other theories when the parents are publicly cleared. I know statistically parents are the most likely perp, but stranger abductions do happen.

Honestly, my best theory is someone else abducted Kyron from school, it was wide open, the science fair was publicized, no one was checked or questioned. Anyone could have walked into that school and grabbed Kyron as he was walking back to class.

Yeah, part of it doesn't make sense to me either.

If DY's words are taken literally, Terri asked her to take Kyron at some point before he disappeared. I don't really know what that convo would have looked like - was it more that TMH was "supportive" of DY when DY would express interest in having Kyron live with her again primarily, and agree and say it was a good idea? And in retrospect, DY sees that as TMH asking her to take Kyron? Or was it literally "I want you to take Kyron now"? I don't know.

And DY also said that Kaine wasn't open to Kyron living with her full time. Which makes sense.

I don't think TMH would have walked away from her marriage because she didn't work, didn't have an income and had a relatively new baby. So I can't see her walking away from Kaine to get away from Kyron.

But again - it's hard to know, since the motivations of someone capable of kidnapping/selling/killing a child are not those any of us can easily access. ???

 

[iamnotagolem]

Yeah, part of it doesn't make sense to me either.

If DY's words are taken literally, Terri asked her to take Kyron at some point before he disappeared. I don't really know what that convo would have looked like - was it more that TMH was "supportive" of DY when DY would express interest in having Kyron live with her again primarily, and agree and say it was a good idea? And in retrospect, DY sees that as TMH asking her to take Kyron? Or was it literally "I want you to take Kyron now"? I don't know.

And DY also said that Kaine wasn't open to Kyron living with her full time. Which makes sense.

I don't think TMH would have walked away from her marriage because she didn't work, didn't have an income and had a relatively new baby. So I can't see her walking away from Kaine to get away from Kyron.

But again - it's hard to know, since the motivations of someone capable of kidnapping/selling/killing a child are not those any of us can easily access. ???

I think if TH wanted away from Kyron that badly, she could have depended on her parents for support until she got back on her feet. Since we are not privy to the emails and their contents we only have DYs word on what they contain. It could have been TH venting, she might not have wanted Kyron gone at all, she had been his primary, most involved parent.

A mother reading emails about her child is much more sensitive than a friend. If TH vented to her friends about Kyron and they weren't concerned about Kyrons well being, then I'm going to assume that it was just venting.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Discuss the case without accusations that Kaine was involved in Kyron's disappearance. Can you say "I think Kaine is wrong for not allowing searches"? Yes. Can you add "and so obviously he's hiding Kyron"? NO. And if you say he's hiding "something" - that can also be problematic. Just make your statement that you think it's wrong not to allow searching and you're fine.

TH has had POI status on Websleuths since a couple of months after Kyron went missing. That hasn't changed. We can't put the toothpaste back in the tube at this point. If you want to say you don't think she did it and has been treated fairly, that's fine. Just be respectful.

Now, back to discussing the show!

Just bumping.

 

[ami]

I think if TH wanted away from Kyron that badly, she could have depended on her parents for support until she got back on her feet. Since we are not privy to the emails and their contents we only have DYs word on what they contain. It could have been TH venting, she might not have wanted Kyron gone at all, she had been his primary, most involved parent.

A mother reading emails about her child is much more sensitive than a friend. If TH vented to her friends about Kyron and they weren't concerned about Kyrons well being, then I'm going to assume that it was just venting.

About the bolded part - well, right, but we're talking about the potential of someone being capable of selling/kidnapping/murdering a child. Their motivations aren't like reasonable people's. I mean Ted Bundy *could have* bought women dinner and a drink and then dropped them off safely at home at the end of the evening - he just didn't, because he was a psychopathic murderer. And of course a hypothetical sane, normal woman could leave her husband and move in with her parents if she hated her stepson. But whoever took Kyron was not operating on a normal person's scale of motivations and decisions. If TMH is responsible for his disappearance, it goes without saying that she *could have* chosen a normal response to whatever life pressures she had, but did not.

And keep in mind that LE also read the emails about Kyron and felt strongly that they indicated a potential motive on TMH's part.

What I don't know is whether TMH actually did ask Desiree to take Kyron back, or if that part is interpreted through that retrospective 'I wonder if thats what she was getting at' lens.

 

[human]

TMH was 40 years old and had lived a nice, fun life. Trips, flashy car, gym membership, for instance.

I cannot believe that her dream would be to move back with her parents. Nope.

 

[iamnotagolem]

TMH was 40 years old and had lived a nice, fun life. Trips, flashy car, gym membership, for instance.

I cannot believe that her dream would be to move back with her parents. Nope.

We are talking about a $30k car, not $85-100. Trips and gym membership? At the price of a child's life? Still not seeing motive.

Terri had already been married twice, Kaine was #3. She surely would have no problem finding someone who would support her if that was her intent.

Granted, I am logical which may be why I'm missing the motive that keeping Kaine for his money was motive for Terri to kill Kyron. Just doesn't seem like there was enough money to make a motive.

 

[ami]

We are talking about a $30k car, not $85-100. Trips and gym membership? At the price of a child's life? Still not seeing motive.

Terri had already been married twice, Kaine was #3. She surely would have no problem finding someone who would support her if that was her intent.

Granted, I am logical which may be why I'm missing the motive that keeping Kaine for his money was motive for Terri to kill Kyron. Just doesn't seem like there was enough money to make a motive.

I don't think there was a financial motive.

Whatever motive the person had is not a logical one that will make us smack our heads and say "oh, I get why they killed the child, makes perfect sense".

Of course a sane person wouldn't kill a child for any reason.

So naturally if you try to work out a sane, reasonable motive for child murder you'll keep poking holes in the logic.