LA - Baton Rouge. 3 officers killed/3 wounded, 17 July 2016

[Deleted member 117884]

Kevin Frey ‏@KevinWAFB [video=twitter;755120507398135811]https://twitter.com/KevinWAFB/status/755120507398135811[/video]
More images of the weapons in the possession of the suspect #BatonRougeShooting

So, if he bought the gun last year, I am assuming he has been target practicing. We will probably heard from a shooting range owner soon, if so.

 

[CARIIS]

Hmmmmm..... I can't help but wonder if the Dallas shooter meant to write BR but accidentally wrote RB. I mean, he was shot at that time and perhaps his actions and thoughts weren't exactly clear. I mean, RB doesn't make sense to anyone (that I have I heard), but BR could easily mean Baton Rouge.

IDK. Never really thought about it until just now.

hummm that is an awesome notion................

 

[GeeEm]

Did it have Texas plates ? If so, rather interesting. Have you posted over on the MB thread ? Just in case. TIA

Hi neesaki

Yes it had Texas license plates and no I haven't posted it on Missy Bevers thread yet. I've been so upset and consumed with this tragedy I basically posted it here.(More to that story but I can't talk about due to TOS). My intentions are good, but I will get there eventually. 😉

However, I did report what I witnessed to the proper authorities. Just in case

#PrayforBatonRouge. 🎗

 

[GeeEm]

July 18, 2016
5:07 pm EST

EMERGENCY came up and I missed the conference‼️

Just my luck 😡
Will try to catch up on the evening news.

I did read it was very emotional so I will have the Kleenex handy

#PrayforBatonRouge 🎗

 

[human]

War is HE!! No doubt about it. It leaves it's mark on all who are exposed to it. But IMO it has nothing to do with what this monster did. There are hundreds of thousands on men and women who return to the U.S. to live out productive, honest, respectable lives. If serving in the military was the cause of this evil, we, as a country would have been wiped out a long time ago. JMO

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/...-veterans-suicide-must-top-priority/79821504/

The VA estimated in 2012 that 22 veterans die each day by suicide, but the number is an extrapolation derived from 1999-2011 data from 21 states, and both the VA and advocacy groups say it should be interpreted with caution.

Given that at least four states with large veterans populations were not included in the calculations — California, Texas, Arizona and North Carolina — the numbers could be higher.
--------

Its suicide hotline, the Veterans Crisis Line (800-273-8255, Press 1), has had more than 2 million callers since it was established in 2007, with nearly a quarter of those calls — 490,000 — coming in last

 

[GeeEm]

Heartbreaking to watch 😭

https://mobile.twitter.com/FoxNews/status/755121065710366720/video/1

Sorry destroying LE innocent lives 👺

#PrayforBatonRouge 🎗

 

[LaborDayRN]

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/...-veterans-suicide-must-top-priority/79821504/

The VA estimated in 2012 that 22 veterans die each day by suicide, but the number is an extrapolation derived from 1999-2011 data from 21 states, and both the VA and advocacy groups say it should be interpreted with caution.

Given that at least four states with large veterans populations were not included in the calculations — California, Texas, Arizona and North Carolina — the numbers could be higher.

It's horrible what war does to a person. I know so many of our military come home and are unable to get the help they need. I have known several personally who took their own lives. Heartbreaking.

I hope I didn't come across as saying that serving in our military is without it's problems. I in no way meant to imply that. My point was simply that there are very few, in the hundreds of thousands that serve, who come home and commit atrocities such as this. We have no way of knowing if this murderer would have carried out the same actions if he hadn't served. IMO there isn't a connection between serving in the military and his acts.

 

[Trident]

Heartbreaking to watch ��

https://mobile.twitter.com/FoxNews/status/755121065710366720/video/1

Sorry destroying LE innocent lives ��

#PrayforBatonRouge ��

After reading the comments, I wonder if there is any way for Americans to come together. I find myself hating at times and pray for forgiveness and guidance.

 

[human]

It's horrible what war does to a person. I know so many of our military come home and are unable to get the help they need. I have known several personally who took their own lives. Heartbreaking.

I hope I didn't come across as saying that serving in our military is without it's problems. I in no way meant to imply that. My point was simply that there are very few, in the hundreds of thousands that serve, who come home and commit atrocities such as this. We have no way of knowing if this murderer would have carried out the same actions if he hadn't served. IMO there isn't a connection between serving in the military and his acts.

Where I lived, there have been several vets that committed murders. There is no way I believe these guys would have been murderers if they had not gone to war. As far as the present killer, he was so arrogant and had all of the answers. There are so many like that . Someone compared him to Elliot Rogers. He does seem like that.

There is more to his personality. The injustice collector is what makes sense to me. But not all injustice collectors become killers. Who knows

 

[popsicle]

surveillance photos http://www.wafb.com/slideshow?widgetid=186087&sf31216278=1

 

[al66pine]

"Originally Posted by Elley Mae http://www.kmbc.com/news/brother-of-...-city/40761576
The man who brandished a gun at reporters at the home of Baton Rouge shooter Gavin Long has been taken into police custody on a seat belt violation warrant."

That's .... unexpected...hwow:

Yes, agreeing, seems unexpected, but does that mean it's an illegal pre-text for being taken into custody?
IDK what evidence LE would be required to have to arrest/take into custody man for answering door w gun.

Is it possible ^ man was taken into LE custody for failure to appear in ct to answer seat belt violation, rather than for a seat belt violation itself?
IDK, but perhaps either would be lawful basis for being taken into custody. IDK.

If man had appeared in ct for seat belt violation to enter plea (as he was legally required to do), pled guilty, paid fine, or if LEO failed to show, or if certain other poss outcomes, seems imo LE could not taken him into custody for seat belt violation or failure to appear.


JM2cts. Sorry if already covered since above posts.

 

[al66pine]

.... Is brandishing a gun just having it in your possession, or does it mean it was pointed at someone? ....

^ sbm bbm. Must do more than have in possession, but not necessary to point firearm at a person.
Paraphrasing MO law* --- a person, who has firearm (or other weapon) capable of lethal use, and who exhibits it in presence of another, and who exhibits it in an angry or threatening manner, and who does it knowingly, commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons.
JM2cts.

______________________________________________________
* Did not find "brandishing" term in MO crim statutes but maybe equivalent, in section re "crime of unlawful use of weapons."
http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/stathtml/57100000301.html
"Missouri Revised Statutes, Chapter 571, Weapons Offenses, Unlawful use of weapons--exceptions--penalties.
571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:..
(4) Exhibits, in the presence of one or more persons, any weapon readily capable of lethal use in an angry or threatening manner; or..."

The class of felony & punishment depends on other multiple factors, specified in statute.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/...-veterans-suicide-must-top-priority/79821504/

The VA estimated in 2012 that 22 veterans die each day by suicide, but the number is an extrapolation derived from 1999-2011 data from 21 states, and both the VA and advocacy groups say it should be interpreted with caution.

Given that at least four states with large veterans populations were not included in the calculations — California, Texas, Arizona and North Carolina — the numbers could be higher.
--------

Its suicide hotline, the Veterans Crisis Line (800-273-8255, Press 1), has had more than 2 million callers since it was established in 2007, with nearly a quarter of those calls — 490,000 — coming in last

The way our combat veterans are being treated once they come back from overseas is beyond shameful. They come back from war seeing their best buddies torn apart or they come back severely wounded. When they get back they think no one cares about them anymore especially the VA that lets them die before they even get them into see a mental health professional or even an medical expert in the field they desperately need for the wounds they have sustained. Many in the military do not see any combat even if they are overseas.

It is one of the worst black marks in our country. They deserve so much yet get very little. So of course they are severely depressed and eventually become suicidal. There is no excuse for the way they are treated by the VA nor is there an excuse for the many scandals of corruption and fraud those over the VA have done and without punishment I may add. Also they have had to wait so long for entitled benefits to be started in order to survive that they become homeless and have lost everything. So of course they have much to be suicidal about. The VA should be ashamed of what they have done to our veterans but they aren't. Those that have forsaken the veterans in the VA and have lied to cover their own a**** aren't punished at all but they are given bonuses instead. Bonuses while many of our veterans are homeless and without medical and mental treatment. How can the veterans in our country not be deeply clinically depressed? All human beings want to feel they have worth and mean something. The VA sends a strong message they really just don't care.

However our veterans most all of the time do not hurt others but windup hurting or killing themselves.

This mass murderer was not even in a combat position so there is no way he had PTSD. I doubt this narcissistic hater ever thought about harming himself and only thought about murdering others in mass who were totally innocent victims.

I have known many men and women who served in the military and I haven't known of one to even harm someone else much less murder them. Of course there will be some who do just like there is in every profession filled with human beings. Most of those which do happen involves domestic violence murders where the service man or woman finds out they have been cheated on while overseas. But with a million serving I think most all are very honorable law abiding productive citizens.

The ones I have been fortunate to know and I come from a very large family of service members are very moral productive people. WWII veterans saw the horrors of war too yet they are known to be the most production citizens in our history.

Where I live there is a large military base and there is never any reports of violent criminal acts done by those at the military base. In fact a young decorated Marine was killed by a drunk driver a couple of years ago and our county named a busy highway after him. Here we honor and support or military and military veterans. Military both present and veterans and the police officers in our nation have selflessly sacrificed the most for all of us. None of us should ever forget that and I make sure I don't.

IMO

 

[bluesneakers]

This mass murderer was not even in a combat position so there is no way he had PTSD. I doubt this narcissistic hater ever thought about harming himself and only thought about murdering others in mass who were totally innocent victims.

I agree that this murderer probably did not have PTSD and his actions have nothing to do with his military service, but I would like to point out a person doesn't need to be in combat to suffer from or be diagnosed with PTSD. It's a misconception many have and I worry it leads to veterans (or others) not seeking help when they need it.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Where I lived, there have been several vets that committed murders. There is no way I believe these guys would have been murderers if they had not gone to war. As far as the present killer, he was so arrogant and had all of the answers. There are so many like that . Someone compared him to Elliot Rogers. He does seem like that.

There is more to his personality. The injustice collector is what makes sense to me. But not all injustice collectors become killers. Who knows

Do you have the links to all the news articles where veterans in your town who are murdering on a regular basis? I would be very interested in reading them. TIA Oh how long had they been out of the military if you know?

I really don't think going to war makes someone a murderer. If that was remotely true there would be an epidemic of veterans coming back and then murdering thousands of people or maybe even millions since there are millions of veterans in our country who have served.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree that this murderer probably did not have PTSD and his actions have nothing to do with his military service, but I would like to point out a person doesn't need to be in combat to suffer from or be diagnosed with PTSD. It's a misconception many have and I worry it leads to veterans (or others) not seeking help when they need it.

How do they have PTSD if they have not been or even seen combat nor suffered any trauma? All the ones I have seen who said they have PTSD were in combat zones where they were able to see the casualties of war on the front lines.

 

[human]

Do you have the links to all the news articles where veterans in your town who are murdering on a regular basis? I would be very interested in reading them. TIA Oh how long had they been out of the military if you know?

I really don't think going to war makes someone a murderer. If that was remotely true there would be an epidemic of veterans coming back and then murdering thousands of people or maybe even millions since there are millions of veterans in our country who have served.

Here are some. 300'vets on death row

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/300-veterans-some-ptsd-are-death-row-report-n460111

 

[bluesneakers]

How do they have PTSD if they have not been or even seen combat nor suffered any trauma? All the ones I have seen who said they have PTSD were in combat zones where they were able to see the casualties of war on the front lines.

Like I said - you don't have to have been in combat to suffer from or be diagnosed with PTSD. Civilians get PTSD too - some from abusive situations and some from things like traffic accidents. I believe VA Disability even specifies non-combat PTSD or combat-related PTSD. I have known veterans who never saw a battlefied but suffered from service-related PTSD.

If someone is a veteran and has symptoms of PTSD and is hurting I don't want him or her to think "But I never saw combat" and not seek help. There's enough stigma and obstacles already.

 

[Deleted member 117884]

Has this been posted yet? Provides background info on shooter, much of what we already know, but fills in a few gaps as well.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/19/us/baton-rouge-shooting.html?_r=0

 

[human]

Here is an excellent article on violence and vets

http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...d_murder_rates_related_to_war_experience.html

The idea that PTSD is unrelated to violence back home is one of the central pillars of today’s rigid “support the troops” campaign. After every mass shooting event involving a veteran, Veterans Affairs psychiatrists and veterans advocates deliver the same stern warning: Mentioning PTSD in conjunction with these shootings is not only inaccurate, it hurts veterans. The Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America’s press release earlier this month after the second Fort Hood shooting is representative: “In moments like this, there is a tendency by some to paint a broad brush across the entire veterans community and it’s important to guard against this mistake. We encourage everyone—especially those in the media and political positions—to be thoughtful and responsible in their reactions and to remember that correlation does not imply causation.”

We are insistently told that it is irresponsible to even consider what deeper, more complex forces might be at work in these military base shootings. Veterans are heroes, murderers are deranged individuals; there is no connection between war service and homicide at home, full stop.

While it is inaccurate to say that PTSD causes violence, the unfortunate truth is that there is a link between PTSD and postwar homicide, and it’s far more than just a passing correlation. Serving in a war zone exposes people to very serious moral challenges, and the experience can serve as a catalyst, making some people less stable and more violent than they might have been otherwise. War is hell, and the hell rubs off.