Identified! LA - Slidell, WhtFem 20-30, UP852, Breast Implants, Pregnant Jun'86 Pamela Lee Hupp

  • #661
Could this be her?

cache.php


Confused about the jpg's

https://www.nfljerseysfans.ru/product_detail.php?c=14 deandre liggins jersey ridge&p=32

It's very unclear if this pic does fit her name..confusing. This woman has brown eyes...please disss me if I'm totally wrong.
 
  • #662
Could this be her?

cache.php


Confused about the jpg's

https://www.nfljerseysfans.ru/product_detail.php?c=14 deandre liggins jersey ridge&p=32

It's very unclear if this pic does fit her name..confusing. This woman has brown eyes...please disss me if I'm totally wrong.

I'm not what sure to make of it, Bit of Hope. The link goes to a football jersey ordering page, yet there is this picture on it. How did you find it?
 
  • #663
It's a scam site. The domain is .ru, which is Russia. It calls itself NFL (National Football League) but the jerseys and photos are mostly basketball players. And there's a lot of other random stuff that shows up as jerseys. It looks like they used some kind of keyword search to populate it and happened to pull a bunch of stuff from the Illinois missing site where they use that design for their posts. But I can't find that particular photo. I don't think it's Kathleen but I'm not sure who it is.
 
  • #664
  • #665
  • #666
Kind of OT but I can't believe how many people missing and no one has any photos of them, not even when they were younger so that someone could do an age progression.
 
  • #667
  • #668
  • #669
Whoa! I thought you had some inside info! Lol
 
  • #670
Has her DNA been run through any of the ancestry sites?
 
  • #671
I don't know....Wish this woman to be identified...she is part of my life.
 
  • #672
Bumping for Slidell Jane Doe.
 
  • #673
**Bump**
 
  • #674
I haven't read the whole thread -just the first page and last. Here is what jumps out at me....
Breast implants back in 1986 were not common place. Typically, women who were entertainers of various varieties had them, and that was about it. With this theory in mind, I would focus on her origin being New Orleans, which is a 32 minute drive from Slidell.

The second point is that there was speculation that she had been in a car accident and had facial reconstruction. This doesn't add up because she apparently had "perfect teeth". The facial work was more likely cosmetic, like the breast implants. Finally, she was stabbed several times in the face. That is a jealous rage, and that suggests to me the Perp is a woman, and this might have been a love triangle.
 
  • #675
  • #676
This may help RFA - Post #499

Here is the information I can provide to you, use to come in this thread and basically talk
to myself and read .... :blushing:

Lake Pontchartrain Jane Doe

Date Found: Thursday June 19, 1986
North Shore Community, St. Tammany Parish – Slidell, LA
(LPJD was spotted approximately 7:30pm on the evening of 6/19/86)



Physical Description:
Estimated Age: 20-30 (Mary M indicated mid 30’s cannot be ruled out)
Race: White
Gender: Female
Height: 5’2” – 5’4”/ 62”-64” Petite frame (Initial report height given 5’7” / 67”)
Weight: 120-126 lbs. (Initial reports weight given 100-120 lbs.)
Hair: Shoulder length hair, auburn (Reddish brown / Light brown)
Eye: Unknown, Large eyes (Per morgue sketch)
Facial Features: Small slightly upturned nose (Per morgue sketch), freckles
Clothing: None (Found nude)
Jewelry: None (1/2” tan line on left hand ring finger, however no ring was found)
Medical: Approximately 8-12 weeks pregnant, Small old scars; right knee 1.5 cm circular-in-shape (.59”), right wrist 1.2 cm (.47”), midline on abdomen above navel 2.3 cm, (.90”), old major right hip injury possible compound fracture (upper thigh/femur bone), Silicone Breast implants; 200cc Cox-Uphoff International of Costa Mesa, CA. implants were encased in a silastic shell (No Serial Numbers). She may have had surgery on her nose, it was hard to totally confirm based on the old morgue photos.
Tattoos: None
Dental: Dental chart available; Absence of wisdom teeth, no dental work teeth were free of cavities and fillings they were in good condition.
Fingerprint: One complete finger print was lifted from her decomposed hands.
DNA: Available – LSU Faces State Lab
Postmortem Interval: 36 Hours (NAMUS) 2 Days or Less (LSU)

Circumstances/Investigation:
LPJD was spotted by (2) fishermen at approximately 7:30 pm on the evening of 6/19/86 near the community of North Shore. By the time deputies launched a boat to recover the partially submerged body drifted approximately 40 yd. (120 ft.) east of the I-10 twin span bridges and 50-60 yd. (150-180 ft.) from shore.

She was nude with a plastic bag over her head secured with duct tape and a 22lb. red weight (type used on exercise equipment) tied to her neck. Investigators found several superficial wounds on the woman’s face/head but were unsure what caused them.

Information from weather experts and marine biologist has led detectives to believe the body was put into the lake between Bayou Lacombe and Rigolets Pass.

There were no serial numbers on the breast implants. Investigators consulted New Orleans plastic surgeons for assistance where the size and manufacturer was determined. It was also advised that most plastic surgeons in the New Orleans area use larger implants.

The implant manufacturer Cox-Uphoff spokesman provided the Sherriff’s office a list of plastic surgeons around the country who have ordered the 200cc size implant. Cox-Uphoff spokesman said the size is common in the US and estimated 500-700 doctors across the country order the 200cc size every year. Detectives have called or written 175 physicians for help. When you go out of this area it begins to get lost doctors way up in the Northeast of the country may not be as helpful to assist.

The medical pathologist that performed the autopsy determined she died of asphyxiation. However, could not pinpoint whether death was by drowning, suffocation or strangulation. Her blood contained small amounts of caffeine and alcohol. Her body bore evidence of several minor cuts and blows, all superficial and was unsure what caused them. He estimated she died the day before her body was found (Sometime Wednesday June 18th). LPJD bore small old scars, right knee, right wrist and upper abdomen.

St Tammany LE received a report on Wed-6/18 that a caller reported deputies would be told where to find (2) bodies beneath an interstate highway bridge if they met a man at the state tourist information center on I-10 West of Slidell. Deputies found no one at the rest area, a search of bridges on I-10 and I-59 turned up no bodies.

Inspector Harvey Pratt of the Oklahoma Bureau of Investigations examined morgue photos of the woman’s face and painted over them to produce a likeness of her. She was a young attractive woman w/shoulder length auburn hair swept back from her face.

St Tammany LE investigation produced 200 inquiries from around the country but few strong leads to her identity. A description of LPJD is filed in an FBI computer in Washington. Sheriff’s office spokesperson Tiffany Tate said based on the attention the case has been given locally in the past “it is obvious the woman is not from this area”.


Investigating Agencies:

NCMEC Case # NCMC4000074
NCIC Case # U-211402266

St. Tammany Parish Sheriff’s Office
Dt. Marco Demma; 985.645.2467 (Direct Line) / 985.726.8000 (Main Office Line)
E-Mail Address: [email protected]
*Demma has retired from LE

LSU Faces Lab – Case # LSU 03-35 - http://identifyla.lsu.edu/profile.php?id=383
Teresa Wilson, Asst. Research Professor: 225.578.4761
Maria Allaire, Research Associate: 225.578.4775
Dr Ginesse Listi: 225.578.3906 / E-Mail: [email protected]
General Email: [email protected]


NAMUS UP - Case # 852 - https://identifyus.org/cases/852
Michael Nance: 918.527.0080 / E-Mail: [email protected]

Crimestoppers – Possible reward – 504.837.8477 / [email protected]


Burial/Remains:
LPJD’s remains are now held at the LSU Faces lab
9/4/03 – Exhumed for DNA/Dental matching to Lisa Marie Sexton
7/2/86 – Buried in a wood frame cardboard box w/baby angel printed on top
Greenwood Cemetery, Potters Field Section – Slidell, LA (Bayou Patassat)


Weather Conditions:
6/19 (Thur) – High 91.9 F / Low 79.0 F; Wind 5.3 – 12 kt, PPTN 0.00” (Fog/Thunder)
6/18 (Wed) – High 91.9 F / Low 70.0 F; Wind 5.1 – 8.9 kt, PPTN 0.04”
6/17 (Tue) – High 91.0 F / Low 75.9 F; Wind 3.4 – 9.9 kt, PPTN 0.35” (Thunder)

Information Resources:
The Times Picayune Article – 2003 (Archives)
The Times Picayune Article – 12/14/86 (Archives)
The Times Picayune Article – 07/16/86 (Archives)
The Times Picayune Article – 07/03/86 (Archives)
The Times Picayune Article – 06/21/86 (Archives)
Doe Network Case: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/16ufla.html
AMW Fans: http://amwfans.com/thread/811/lake-pontchartrain-jane-killer-louisiana
AMW Video: https://youtu.be/XWqqYSec0DA
Trail of Bones: More Cases from the Files of a Forensic Anthropologist – Mary Manhein (2005)


Right Hip Compound Fracture:
LPJD must have incurred an immense amount of pain and a lengthy recovery period. During the recovery period a patient would need to use a walker or crutches for several months and attend physical therapy. Many of these types of injuries require surgery that include the usage of pins in the procedure. The injury was not recognized until LPJD was exhumed would pins deteriorate if LPJD had any at all ?

Right Hip Compound Fracture:

Broken Hip/Fracture occurs in the upper portion of your thighbone or femur. The top of the femur and part of the pelvic bone meet to form the hip.

Compound Fracture:
A fracture in which the broken bones cut through the skin. This type of fracture is more prone to infection and requires immediate medical attention.

Hip Fractures:
Common injuries after a front end accident. Due to the force of an accident can push up the leg to the hip and break the hip near the pelvis.

How fractures can occur: High-Energy forces; motor vehicle accidents, pedestrian struck by a vehicle, bicycling / motorcycle accidents or falling from a significant height.

Surgical:
Most hip injuries require surgery to repair the hip. Surgery is done as soon as possible after a hip fracture. Certain fractures that have not moved “displaced” may not require surgery. Because there is a risk that they may move later on they are often fixed. After surgery a common issue is leg length discrepancy a shoe lift may be needed to equalize the limb length.

Recovery:
Patient will not be fully weight-bearing for several months. Crutches, walker or a cane will be needed to aid mobilization.

OrthoInfo
American Academy of Orthopedic Information
http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=A00521

Fractures and Trauma
http://www.motion-ortho.com/fractures-and-trauma/
http://health.howstuffworks.com/human-body/systems/musculoskeletal/heal-broken-bones1.htm
Mary noted it was an old injury, the appearance of the bone was changing.

The bone is remodeled. Special cells called osteoclasts break down extra bone around the fracture until it's completely healed and returned to its original shape. Bone remodeling is a very slow process which can take anywhere from 3 to 9 years to complete! https://askabiologist.asu.edu/bone-healing

Time Frame:
Given the estimated time found evening of Thur-6/19 estimated time in the water 36 hours she was dumped into the lake early morning of Wed-6/18.

Age Range:
Originally the victim was believed to be between 17 – 20 years old. Manhein and her staff concluded that the victim was actually between 20 – 30 years of age. Manhein emphasized that it cannot be ruled out that the woman was in her mid-30’s.

Height Range:
Using a formula that uses the femur bone help Manhein and her staff conclude the victim was between 5’2” – 5’4” original reports stated the victim was between 5’7” – 5’8”.

Age Range:
20-30 * Do not rule out up to 35
AGE DOBY
20 1966
21 1965
22 1964
23 1963
24 1962
25 1961
26 1960
27 1959
28 1958
29 1957
30 1956
31 1955
32 1954
33 1953
34 1952
35 1951

Breast Augmentation:
Cox Uphoff International (CUI) began marketing implants in 1976, introducing smooth single-lumen gel (1976-1991), double-lumen (1977-1991), reverse double-lumen (1982-1993), triple-lumen (1983-1988), gel-saline adjustable (1987-1991)[/QU
 
  • #677
  • #678
See a likeness both DNA's are in NAMUS they would have crossed matched if they were one in the same.

Always again the DNA thing. We assume that the DNA is in the same system and can be ruled out...but that isn't always the case...sometimes there is DNA but in a different lab...even if Namus says DNA available, tests complete...but anyways....the thing is Tony has pierced ears....we still don't know about Slidell..not mentioned so I guess not.
 
  • #679
Toni was compared to a Texas Jane doe https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...l-518UFTX-20-40-wrapped-in-quilt-Apr-00/page3

In the thread CarlK said this:
Toni's daughter received a letter from UNT documenting the rule-out by DNA comparison using FRS's from two of Toni's children.

I'm not sure what this means....sorry..I 'have read so many post's about the so called automatically ruled out by Namus which is not a rule persé.
 
  • #680
This may help RFA - Post #499

Here is the information I can provide to you, use to come in this thread and basically talk
to myself and read .... :blushing:

Lake Pontchartrain Jane Doe

Date Found: Thursday June 19, 1986
North Shore Community, St. Tammany Parish – Slidell, LA
(LPJD was spotted approximately 7:30pm on the evening of 6/19/86)



Physical Description:
Estimated Age: 20-30 (Mary M indicated mid 30’s cannot be ruled out)
Race: White
Gender: Female
Height: 5’2” – 5’4”/ 62”-64” Petite frame (Initial report height given 5’7” / 67”)
Weight: 120-126 lbs. (Initial reports weight given 100-120 lbs.)
Hair: Shoulder length hair, auburn (Reddish brown / Light brown)
Eye: Unknown, Large eyes (Per morgue sketch)
Facial Features: Small slightly upturned nose (Per morgue sketch), freckles
Clothing: None (Found nude)
Jewelry: None (1/2” tan line on left hand ring finger, however no ring was found)
Medical: Approximately 8-12 weeks pregnant, Small old scars; right knee 1.5 cm circular-in-shape (.59”), right wrist 1.2 cm (.47”), midline on abdomen above navel 2.3 cm, (.90”), old major right hip injury possible compound fracture (upper thigh/femur bone), Silicone Breast implants; 200cc Cox-Uphoff International of Costa Mesa, CA. implants were encased in a silastic shell (No Serial Numbers). She may have had surgery on her nose, it was hard to totally confirm based on the old morgue photos.
Tattoos: None
Dental: Dental chart available; Absence of wisdom teeth, no dental work teeth were free of cavities and fillings they were in good condition.
Fingerprint: One complete finger print was lifted from her decomposed hands.
DNA: Available – LSU Faces State Lab
Postmortem Interval: 36 Hours (NAMUS) 2 Days or Less (LSU)

Circumstances/Investigation:
LPJD was spotted by (2) fishermen at approximately 7:30 pm on the evening of 6/19/86 near the community of North Shore. By the time deputies launched a boat to recover the partially submerged body drifted approximately 40 yd. (120 ft.) east of the I-10 twin span bridges and 50-60 yd. (150-180 ft.) from shore.

She was nude with a plastic bag over her head secured with duct tape and a 22lb. red weight (type used on exercise equipment) tied to her neck. Investigators found several superficial wounds on the woman’s face/head but were unsure what caused them.

Information from weather experts and marine biologist has led detectives to believe the body was put into the lake between Bayou Lacombe and Rigolets Pass.

There were no serial numbers on the breast implants. Investigators consulted New Orleans plastic surgeons for assistance where the size and manufacturer was determined. It was also advised that most plastic surgeons in the New Orleans area use larger implants.

The implant manufacturer Cox-Uphoff spokesman provided the Sherriff’s office a list of plastic surgeons around the country who have ordered the 200cc size implant. Cox-Uphoff spokesman said the size is common in the US and estimated 500-700 doctors across the country order the 200cc size every year. Detectives have called or written 175 physicians for help. When you go out of this area it begins to get lost doctors way up in the Northeast of the country may not be as helpful to assist.

The medical pathologist that performed the autopsy determined she died of asphyxiation. However, could not pinpoint whether death was by drowning, suffocation or strangulation. Her blood contained small amounts of caffeine and alcohol. Her body bore evidence of several minor cuts and blows, all superficial and was unsure what caused them. He estimated she died the day before her body was found (Sometime Wednesday June 18th). LPJD bore small old scars, right knee, right wrist and upper abdomen.

St Tammany LE received a report on Wed-6/18 that a caller reported deputies would be told where to find (2) bodies beneath an interstate highway bridge if they met a man at the state tourist information center on I-10 West of Slidell. Deputies found no one at the rest area, a search of bridges on I-10 and I-59 turned up no bodies.

Inspector Harvey Pratt of the Oklahoma Bureau of Investigations examined morgue photos of the woman’s face and painted over them to produce a likeness of her. She was a young attractive woman w/shoulder length auburn hair swept back from her face.

St Tammany LE investigation produced 200 inquiries from around the country but few strong leads to her identity. A description of LPJD is filed in an FBI computer in Washington. Sheriff’s office spokesperson Tiffany Tate said based on the attention the case has been given locally in the past “it is obvious the woman is not from this area”.


Investigating Agencies:

NCMEC Case # NCMC4000074
NCIC Case # U-211402266

St. Tammany Parish Sheriff’s Office
Dt. Marco Demma; 985.645.2467 (Direct Line) / 985.726.8000 (Main Office Line)
E-Mail Address: [email protected]
*Demma has retired from LE

LSU Faces Lab – Case # LSU 03-35 - http://identifyla.lsu.edu/profile.php?id=383
Teresa Wilson, Asst. Research Professor: 225.578.4761
Maria Allaire, Research Associate: 225.578.4775
Dr Ginesse Listi: 225.578.3906 / E-Mail: [email protected]
General Email: [email protected]


NAMUS UP - Case # 852 - https://identifyus.org/cases/852
Michael Nance: 918.527.0080 / E-Mail: [email protected]

Crimestoppers – Possible reward – 504.837.8477 / [email protected]


Burial/Remains:
LPJD’s remains are now held at the LSU Faces lab
9/4/03 – Exhumed for DNA/Dental matching to Lisa Marie Sexton
7/2/86 – Buried in a wood frame cardboard box w/baby angel printed on top
Greenwood Cemetery, Potters Field Section – Slidell, LA (Bayou Patassat)


Weather Conditions:
6/19 (Thur) – High 91.9 F / Low 79.0 F; Wind 5.3 – 12 kt, PPTN 0.00” (Fog/Thunder)
6/18 (Wed) – High 91.9 F / Low 70.0 F; Wind 5.1 – 8.9 kt, PPTN 0.04”
6/17 (Tue) – High 91.0 F / Low 75.9 F; Wind 3.4 – 9.9 kt, PPTN 0.35” (Thunder)

Information Resources:
The Times Picayune Article – 2003 (Archives)
The Times Picayune Article – 12/14/86 (Archives)
The Times Picayune Article – 07/16/86 (Archives)
The Times Picayune Article – 07/03/86 (Archives)
The Times Picayune Article – 06/21/86 (Archives)
Doe Network Case: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/16ufla.html
AMW Fans: http://amwfans.com/thread/811/lake-pontchartrain-jane-killer-louisiana
AMW Video: https://youtu.be/XWqqYSec0DA
Trail of Bones: More Cases from the Files of a Forensic Anthropologist – Mary Manhein (2005)


Right Hip Compound Fracture:
LPJD must have incurred an immense amount of pain and a lengthy recovery period. During the recovery period a patient would need to use a walker or crutches for several months and attend physical therapy. Many of these types of injuries require surgery that include the usage of pins in the procedure. The injury was not recognized until LPJD was exhumed would pins deteriorate if LPJD had any at all ?

Right Hip Compound Fracture:

Broken Hip/Fracture occurs in the upper portion of your thighbone or femur. The top of the femur and part of the pelvic bone meet to form the hip.

Compound Fracture:
A fracture in which the broken bones cut through the skin. This type of fracture is more prone to infection and requires immediate medical attention.

Hip Fractures:
Common injuries after a front end accident. Due to the force of an accident can push up the leg to the hip and break the hip near the pelvis.

How fractures can occur: High-Energy forces; motor vehicle accidents, pedestrian struck by a vehicle, bicycling / motorcycle accidents or falling from a significant height.

Surgical:
Most hip injuries require surgery to repair the hip. Surgery is done as soon as possible after a hip fracture. Certain fractures that have not moved “displaced” may not require surgery. Because there is a risk that they may move later on they are often fixed. After surgery a common issue is leg length discrepancy a shoe lift may be needed to equalize the limb length.

Recovery:
Patient will not be fully weight-bearing for several months. Crutches, walker or a cane will be needed to aid mobilization.

OrthoInfo
American Academy of Orthopedic Information
http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=A00521

Fractures and Trauma
http://www.motion-ortho.com/fractures-and-trauma/
http://health.howstuffworks.com/human-body/systems/musculoskeletal/heal-broken-bones1.htm
Mary noted it was an old injury, the appearance of the bone was changing.

The bone is remodeled. Special cells called osteoclasts break down extra bone around the fracture until it's completely healed and returned to its original shape. Bone remodeling is a very slow process which can take anywhere from 3 to 9 years to complete! https://askabiologist.asu.edu/bone-healing

Time Frame:
Given the estimated time found evening of Thur-6/19 estimated time in the water 36 hours she was dumped into the lake early morning of Wed-6/18.

Age Range:
Originally the victim was believed to be between 17 – 20 years old. Manhein and her staff concluded that the victim was actually between 20 – 30 years of age. Manhein emphasized that it cannot be ruled out that the woman was in her mid-30’s.

Height Range:
Using a formula that uses the femur bone help Manhein and her staff conclude the victim was between 5’2” – 5’4” original reports stated the victim was between 5’7” – 5’8”.

Age Range:
20-30 * Do not rule out up to 35
AGE DOBY
20 1966
21 1965
22 1964
23 1963
24 1962
25 1961
26 1960
27 1959
28 1958
29 1957
30 1956
31 1955
32 1954
33 1953
34 1952
35 1951

Breast Augmentation:
Cox Uphoff International (CUI) began marketing implants in 1976, introducing smooth single-lumen gel (1976-1991), double-lumen (1977-1991), reverse double-lumen (1982-1993), triple-lumen (1983-1988), gel-saline adjustable (1987-1991)[/QU

Always again the DNA thing. We assume that the DNA is in the same system and can be ruled out...but that isn't always the case...sometimes there is DNA but in a different lab...even if Namus says DNA available, tests complete...but anyways....the thing is Tony has pierced ears....we still don't know about Slidell..not mentioned so I guess not.

You feel strongly about her I would submit her to NAMUS you can also ask whether both their DNA's are in Codis or held somewhere else and if separately ask for a comparison
 

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