Laura Babcock Murder Trial 12.07.17 - Charge to the Jury - Day 1

[Jasper52]

Hi Jasper52, why are they being dismissed?

They are considered alternates - basically there in case another juror is dismissed. Only 12 jurors will deliberate.

 

[Shaz14]

I'm going to try and look this up, but I don't think this is true. I think she can be declared dead after this trial. I think LE can lay murder charges on the presumption of death, when a body is not recovered.

I wonder if a death certificate was provided. I haven’t read through all of this yet but it might have the answer.


https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/02d14

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90a03

 

[CJPRINCESS]

They are considered alternatives - basically there in case another juror is dismissed. Only 12 jurors will deliberate.

Ah, maybe that’s why they didn’t want to sit in for the weekend. Two leave the jury anyways.

 

[ab-initio]

Can anyone help me out here? I'm having a bit of trouble understanding the second hearsay rule, and the examples Justice Code gave.

DeaconBrodie? Lol

I've typed/retyped an answer here, similarly as I read/reread the same part of this charge.
I haven't been able to put into words without confusing more.

Reading it in conjunction with the next part of his charge:
[FONT=&quot]Both of the accused have to be present in this case. The other accused must do or say something from which you would infer that he has agreed with the first accused's statement.

Meaning, it's hearsay unless it's in someway confirmed by the other accused by adoption (no contest.)

Maybe ... a witness giving testimony saying that Mark said that Dellen had an incinerator.
Hearsay.

Unless ... they have a text, for example, in which Mark says "incinerator ready, bring something with bones" and Dellen replies with no contest (ie, no "what incinerator?)?
Thus, inferring he agrees with Mark's statement.
Even a simple reply about the topic would, I think, make the hearsay portion of the testimony admissible in this limited circumstance.

I don't know.
I can't think of an appropriate example to put into words.
I think I'm close, but not quite there.[/FONT]

 

[Nosey Parker]

Ah, maybe that’s why they didn’t want to sit in for the weekend. Two leave the jury anyways.

I'm betting they all want to get their Christmas shopping out of the way.

 

[ab-initio]

When I attended this trial I definitely watched how different jurors reacted to testimony including taking notes, leaning in or back, shifting in their seats, playing with hair or staring blankly ahead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Right? Now multiply that x5 days, and then again x5 weeks.

I think you can really "get to know" someone in this situation, without verbal language.

 

[Alban]

WHAT THE JURY SAW: Tracking and mapping the cellphones https://youtu.be/tKcUv24D4vo

 

[Jealoushe]

I'm betting they all want to get their Christmas shopping out of the way.

That was my thought too.

 

[Bluepopsicle]

I must say, I feel really sorry for the two jurors that will be dismissed come time for deliberations. I remember how hard it was for the dismissed jurors in the TB trial. They never had closure.

So the two extras are dismissed BEFORE deliberations? So what happens if one of the 12 remaining falls ill or something before they reach a verdict?

Btw, thanks to everyone answeing previous questions, I’m always torn whether to reply a thank you, or to not “clog” up the thread all the time...I probably do enough of that with my silly Q’s!!

 

[CJPRINCESS]

So the two extras are dismissed BEFORE deliberations? So what happens if one of the 12 remaining falls ill or something before they reach a verdict?

Btw,thanks to everyone answeing previous questions, I’m always torn whether to reply a thank you, or to not “clog” up the thread all the time...I probably do enough of that with my silly Q’s!!

Bbm

There is a button at the bottom of each post to thank people for posts

 

[FrannieQ]

I've been able to follow this case closely thanks to all of you & your posts. There's been lots of yelling at my screen (in both agreement & disagreement) but I've got so much to say on this trial I finally gave in & registered. First off, I just want to give thanks to Meterclicks, Kamille & everyone else who kept us updated all along & to all the posters who've shared such insightful arguments. Of course, I feel absolutely terrible for the Babcock family & what they're going through right now. It must be completely gut wrenching to sit there day after to day listening to all of this. At least they were lucky enough to have Justice Code. I think he's doing such a good job. I was hoping he'd address certain issues in his charge (re: DM's inferences of not calling certain witnesses & TD's unfounded comments about convicted one's own son or daughter). Thankfully, he did so almost immediately. I'm looking forward to following the rest of his charge &, hopefully, applauding a conviction.

Ditto, ditto and ditto times ditto.

 

[Shaz14]

Bbm

There is a button at the bottom of each post to thank people for posts

I don’t see the thank you button in the mobile browser

 

[Grey-St]

I don’t see the thank you button in the mobile browser

Sadly, it doesn't show up on mobile.

 

[Nosey Parker]

Ditto, ditto and ditto times ditto.

And welcome to you too, FrannieQ!

 

[zencompass]

I appreciate everyone on these threads.

Such a supportive and compassionate group you are!

Justice for Laura

 

[FrannieQ]

The Judge's charges to the jury really help lift the fog. I'm sure they'll easily see past the endless lies and deceptions of DM and MS. I still have one nagging thought though. If it weren't for their diabolic murder of TB it would probably be sufficient hesitation to provide reasonable doubt. When the Judge said the jury had first to accept that LB is, in fact dead and, secondly, to accept that these two were the ones who ended her life, it's probably nothing but I was suddenly reminded of a Star article I read some time ago. http://projects.thestar.com/human-sex-trafficking-ontario-canada/

Thoughts?

 

[FrannieQ]

And welcome to you too, FrannieQ!

Thanks, Nosey. Good to finally say "hi" to you and the rest of the WS gang.

Justice for Laura!

 

[Jasper52]

So the two extras are dismissed BEFORE deliberations? So what happens if one of the 12 remaining falls ill or something before they reach a verdict?

Btw, thanks to everyone answeing previous questions, I’m always torn whether to reply a thank you, or to not “clog” up the thread all the time...I probably do enough of that with my silly Q’s!!

I'm not sure if the alternates are sent to a separate room until deliberations are complete, thereby available if a juror fails ill. Maybe DeaconBrodie (sp?) can chime in.

 

[Nosey Parker]

Where is everyone? Did I get the lunch break time wrong?

 

[Grey-St]

The Judge's charges to the jury really help lift the fog. I'm sure they'll easily see past the endless lies and deceptions of DM and MS. I still have one nagging thought though. If it weren't for their diabolic murder of TB it would probably be sufficient hesitation to provide reasonable doubt. When the Judge said the jury had first to accept that LB is, in fact dead and, secondly, to accept that these two were the ones who ended her life, it's probably nothing but I was suddenly reminded of a Star article I read some time ago. http://projects.thestar.com/human-sex-trafficking-ontario-canada/

Thoughts?

This was a phenomenal project done by The Star, that I actually was consulted on. Some of those girls were my clients. I work with survivors of human trafficking, sex workers, and victims of gender based violence. What are your thoughts and questions on how it relates to this case? I'm all ears