Laura Babcock Murder Trial 12.11.17 - Charge to the Jury - Day 3

[LadyL]

brilliant! well that clears up one mystery
good find

Typically, two smaller box springs support a king-size matress.

Photo of DM's bedroom from the Toronto Sun:

https://www.google.ca/search?q=dell...&hl=en-ca&client=safari#imgrc=6qWDcmkvev17BM:

ETA: Do we know for certain DM had a king-size mattress prior to replacing it with the new one?

 

[Kamille]

I can't see how he could have moved a bloody kingsize mattress out of the house on his own and get it into the van, without leaving a mess and/or disturbing others in the house. But it went somewhere. Also removing the body from the house and rolling the tarp would have been difficult on his own and where was there enough space to actually do it. It would have been light until around 10pm I guess and he wouldn't want to risk neighbours or passersby seeing anything.

There is nothing to suggest that the mattress would have been bloody. Unless you're thinking that LB was shot on the mattress. Good point about it being light out until at least 9pm at that time of the year. But it appears that DM didn't sleep for 2 days straight so he was likely moving things around under the cover of darkness. That's not to say that MS wasn't helping him though. Question is, at what point did MS become involved in the disposal/cover up if he wasn't involved in the actual planning and execution of the murder? It does not escape me that he was also up most of the night on July 3rd going into the morning of July 4th as I believe he ended up sleeping until 3pm on the afternoon of the 4th.

The text messages, however,seem to indicate that he was trying to make contact with DM around 12:42am to ask DM where he was and to talk about something and DM made an excuse as to why he was out of contact for a while prior to 12:42am and that he would talk in the morning I believe. So I'm not sure they were ever together that night or most of the next day.

MOO

 

[Jasper52]

Code is now running through the meeting that Babcock's former boyfriend Shawn Lerner had with Millard on July 27, 2012, when he was trying to track her down.
by Adam Carter 4:46 PM

"Mr. Millard said a number of things about Ms. Babcock during their conversation. He said that she had developed an addiction to cocaine and that she had become mixed up with the wrong people. He implied that Mr. Lerner should not expect to find her," Code says.
by Adam Carter 4:47 PM

Code now reviewing a text in which Michalski sent Millard a "missing persons" notice about Babcock. Millard responds by saying "what you'd do?!"
by Adam Carter 4:52 PM

Code now talking about one other series of text involving Millard after Babcock disappeared, and they are with Christina Noudga. The texts were found on a backup, dated Aug. 16 to 19. One starts with a screen shot where two friends were discussing whether or not Babcock and Millard had sex. Noudga sends this to Millard, asking, "Is that true?" Millard responds, "It's not."
by Adam Carter 4:56 PM

IN these texts, Millard refers to Babcock as a "pathological liar," and says "you of all people should know how I regarded Laura."
by Adam Carter 4:57 PM

The final evidence of statements from Millard are a series of letters he wrote Christina Noudga, which were found in her bedroom in April of 2013.
by Adam Carter 5:01 PM

A total of 65 letters were seized, Code says.
by Adam Carter 5:02 PM

"I have edited out a lengthy sexual fantasy, I didn't think we needed to read it," Code says about one of the letters.
by Adam Carter 5:03 PM

 

[mimimic]

Just as a side the text question of "where ya at?" to me, can also mean.... "so where or what point are you at in doing things, with the plan?"

 

[banting]

There is nothing to suggest that the mattress would have been bloody. Unless you're thinking that LB was shot on the mattress. Good point about it being light out until at least 9pm at that time of the year. But it appears that DM didn't sleep for 2 days straight so he was likely moving things around under the cover of darkness. That's not to say that MS wasn't helping him though. Question is, at what point did MS become involved in the disposal/cover up if he wasn't involved in the actual planning and execution of the murder? It does not escape me that he was also up most of the night on July 3rd going into the morning of July 4th as I believe he ended up sleeping until 3pm on the afternoon of the 4th.

The text messages, however,seem to indicate that he was trying to make contact with DM around 12:42am to ask DM where he was and to talk about something and DM made an excuse as to why he was out of contact for a while prior to 12:42am and that he would talk in the morning I believe. So I'm not sure they were ever together that night or most of the next day.

MOO

Agreed that there is no evidence that it was bloody, I was just following on the line of thought that if it was moved it would have only been moved because it was bloody and that would have been tricky.

 

[paris_paris]

On the 4th DM texted MS at 11:03 to say he had left the house. At 1:39 his photo is taken at the hangar. At 2:40 he takes a photo at the farm. Did it take him 2 1/2 hours to get to the hangar? Or did it take an hour and he stayed there for 2 1/2 hours.

I haven't seen the actual maps with the cell phone pings. Do we have a link to those?

 

[LadyL]

'executing a search' requires typing in the same terminology that is usually just as recoverable
simply clicking on a link is recoverable so I doubt he took a screenshot as part of a plan to cover his tracks

Justice Code said that DM did the search, however this does not mean that DM asked the cremation temperature question. The image in evidence shows a Question and Answer, the question appears to have been asked by someone else online. So DM executed the search, then found the Q&A already posted online, and simply did a screen-shot to retain.

That way, the question couldn't be linked back to him by the police... but .. he kept the screenshot....ooooops.

 

[Jasper52]

Code is now reading an account Millard wrote in one of the letters about "the night Laura disappeared," stating "you saw her alive, with Mark, and there was coke on the bar." It goes on to suggest, Code says, that Babcock may have "O.D.'d, probably from mixing her prescriptions with Mark's coke." In these letters, Millard also asks her to be his "secret agent."
by Adam Carter 5:06 PM

In a later letter, Millard writes "That stuff I wrote before, about seeing Mark and someone at Maplegate, partying in the basement, that was brainstorming, forget it."
by Adam Carter 5:08 PM

Code says he has one last section in the Crown's evidence, the evidence of Marlena Meneses. Then he's going to recap Millard's defence evidence. He says the jury has probably "had enough for the day," and that they'll pick it up again tomorrow.
by Adam Carter 5:10 PM

That's it for me everyone -- Shannon Martin will be back tomorrow for when the jury leaves to deliberate, and she'll be covering the verdict. Thanks a lot for following along.
by Adam Carter 5:11 PM

(One final note -- Code says the jury will "certainly" be out deliberating on a verdict by lunchtime tomorrow).
by Adam Carter 5:12 PM

 

[Jasper52]

I wonder if they'll be back by 5:00 pm with a verdict???!!!

 

[Tilly23]

Just as a side the text question of "where ya at?" to me, can also mean.... "so where or what point are you at in doing things, with the plan?"

I'm wondering if DM and MS were together during the "radio silence" interval and possibly they were freaking out a bit? I have simply no real idea how somebody might react to murdering someone, especially if the murderer has narcissistic tendencies, but I would think it might really get the adrenalin going? So, while DM and MS are murdering and starting clean up, they might be quite gleeful about their big plans finally getting underway but maybe also freaking out a bit. And then telling each other that they have to get their emotions under control!

When they split up, MS went back down the basement to the room with MM and left DM by himself. It does not seem too much of a stretch for MS to text "where ya at?" to check in with DM. Maybe he wants to see if DM is doing ok. Maybe he wants to talk some more to process what they just did.

Lots of speculation on my part as we just don't know.

MOO.

 

[MsSherlock]

I wonder if they be back by 5:00 pm with a verdict???!!!

Code has really encapsulated the evidence. Wonder how DM & MS are feeling now? IMHO, the charge to the Jury contains all of the pertinent parts of the Crowns case. At this point I'm happy that Code gave DM so much latitude during the trial. Dungey on the other hand was probably thinking that MS was distanced from everything- it's not until you see a condensed version of the before, during and after, that it's possible to see exactly how involved MS was. Was TD backed into a corner, thus his silent defence or did he misjudge the evidence? IMHO, they'll have 2- M1 verdicts by the end of the second day- Thursday morning at the latest- thats my guess. I can't wait to hear "what the Jury didn't hear" tomorrow!

 

[Inspector_North]

BBM

'"Mr. Millard said a number of things about Ms. Babcock during their conversation. He said that she had developed an addiction to cocaine and that she had become mixed up with the wrong people. He implied that Mr. Lerner should not expect to find her," Code says.
by Adam Carter 4:47 PM'

Yes, DM and CN. MOO

 

[paris_paris]

I wonder if they'll be back by 5:00 pm with a verdict???!!!

For Tim's trial they went out Monday at 4:00 and had a verdict Friday at 3:00. I remember 1 juror falling ill, but I can't remember how many questions they came back to ask.

 

[MsSherlock]

I don't buy it. Millard leaves for an hour and takes LBs phone, in my opinion he's clearing his head. She's already dead. He comes back at 8:20. Smich texts Millard at around 12:40 asking what he's up to. So obviously Smich wasn't with Millard just prior to that. So the amount of time Millard has to get his act together is between say 8:20 and 11:40, just over three hours. In that time he has got to wrap the body, presumably in bedsheets and move it to the van. He probably attempts to deal with the mess on the mattress, and go through the loot. Those three hours would go quick. IMO it is more likely LB was killed in those 13 minutes between 7:13 when Millard finishes a 6 minute phone call and 7:26 when Millard abruptly leaves.

DM is a sexually driven psychopath- IMHO, he enjoyed his romps in the sack with LB and I don't believe that he would kill her without getting sexual gratification from her knowing he'd never be having sex with her again. LB had told him she wanted him to hurt her next time- IMHO, there is absolutely no way that he would have killed her immediately- where would the fun be in that? Maybe he left to take CN a little pic of his handiwork or give CN a ride somewhere? He certainly wasn't running a mission to the store to get milk. Whatever it was, around 10:30 pm, CN texted him about "having fun doing big things".

 

[Shaz14]

I think you could make a king sized mattress fit in a van, but not a box spring.

I’m trying to think back to the evidence...did be buy a mattress and a box spring or just a mattress?

 

[Shaz14]

I’m wondering if DM did kill LB right away and that is why he left the stuff at the top of the stairs for MS. Maybe that was part of the loot he got off LB?

 

[Oreck]

I can't see how he could have moved a bloody kingsize mattress out of the house on his own and get it into the van, without leaving a mess and/or disturbing others in the house. But it went somewhere. Also removing the body from the house and rolling the tarp would have been difficult on his own and where was there enough space to actually do it. It would have been light until around 10pm I guess and he wouldn't want to risk neighbours or passersby seeing anything.

He had 10 bedrooms, as someone on here said. Maybe He put it in a spare room till a few days later.

 

[winter2017]

IT is almost over, just a few more instructions from the judge and then the jury will decide.
I am shocked how much evidence was known before Tim Bosma was killed, and all these characters knew about the IPad that MS had, the rap song, MM knew about the rap she was there when MS performed it.
None of them gave any information to the police that would have helped and could have saved the lives of Tim Bosma and the father.
That is what is so shocking to find out from this trial.
They knew all this information when they testified at Tim s trial.
If I had known about all this evidence about Laura, it would not have been a question at all in my mind that they went on the test drive with murder on their minds.
That is the awful part of it, had some of this been told to the police after Laura disappeared I believe it could have prevented Tim Bosma from being murdered.
I doubt most people have learned from this case, even the ones who hid this information I think if they had the chance they would do it again.
I am lost for words about both of these murder cases.

 

[Minordetails]

I don't see anything that would indicate that LB was alive for very long. Nothing that would indicate Smich was involved that evening either. He might have been, we just don't know for sure and to what extent they talked. The only evidence we have is that Smich doesn't seem confused at all about the "spliff" comment, and we know he didn't talk to Millard before he left the house. Just not enough to pin a M1 on him based on that comment.

In my opinion, Smich did not present himself as innocent man in the trial. I realize the onus is on the crown to prove guilt; however, if I'm a juror and on the fence regarding an M1 conviction for MS, I'm asking myself why didn't MS do more to get his story out there? Where was he on that July 3 night? What was he doing? What was the context of his texts with DM? What was Millard up to that night? What did Millard bring MS? If it's me, and I'm innocent, I'm getting my story out there with all the details and 'screaming bloody murder' when the crown is wrong. MS didn't do that. Why not?

 

[redwing7225]

DM is a sexually driven psychopath- IMHO, he enjoyed his romps in the sack with LB .

snipped...
Wonder how he's enjoying his sexual experiences these days [emoji23]

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