LE serves search warrant on family home #3

[MyBelle]

Well I am sure that mom and dads room, considering she said she blacked out and was in her room was part of it. Lisa's room, any rooms with a trap i am sure in case of blood being washed away, if there was a basement or an attic I would say they would be as well. The computer room where someone possibly entered would be included and unless they had cause to say the baby was in the brothers room, well that might be the only room that wasnt on the warrant. I would bet though that the whole house was included. Along with the camper, that shed and the yard.. Seems that everything was in there.

I'm confident you are correct. The entire house, the outbuildings would be listed separately in the description but if the Judge agreed they had probable cause to search, that's all that is required. The law has been carefully followed in this case. There will be no constitutional challenge on today's search.

all, JMO

 

[cluciano63]

Joining in late here...I see a huge discussion about search warrants, but not much about what might have been found today. Is the search still going on or has LE just not said anything? The suspense is killing me!!!!

And to add to the conversation, search warrants HAVE to be VERY specific or they could get thrown out. I believe LE crossed all t's and dotted all i's with that warrant because they have to or they might lose evidence! JT is full of bullhockey saying that they didn't need one. You have to love idiotic defense spin...

If anything of value was found, we sure don't know about it. As usual, I think some items were taken away in brown bags of some sort. I kind of feel it was a last-ditch effort to find something at the home, but we have no way of knowing.

 

[Minette]

To the very best of my knowledge, the house with the ADT sign and the pumpkins on the porch is that of the neighbors, not the Irwin home.

 

[Aedrys]

If anything of value was found, we sure don't know about it. As usual, I think some items were taken away in brown bags of some sort. I kind of feel it was a last-ditch effort to find something at the home, but we have no way of knowing.

Thanks. Sadly, that's pretty much what I figured it was. At least we know they took some stuff away. I hope they find something through analysis!

 

[SyraKelly]

Thanks. Sadly, that's pretty much what I figured it was. At least we know they took some stuff away. I hope they find something through analysis!

I hope they found something to..its sad Lisa was not found today!

 

[frankie069]

Frankie if you look back at Wendy's post and the highlighted quote contained I think she was responding to JT's remark today that a warrant wasn't needed. So if their hadn't been a warrant anything they found could have been thrown out in court.

oops Davehead I am a little slow...

No I understood that, I think my inflection was off. Between that and people complaining how the news keeps saying they didnt need a warrant when they did, I was more talking to DB's lawyer I think than anything. I think I get so tired of hearing how the media is spinning this when in fact all they are doing is showing what the parents and the lawyers are saying. Yes of course media does spin some things but these are things we are hearing from the horses mouth, not hearsay from the media and my apologies if what I said came out wrong. I really did understand what she was saying though.. Sorry again. That family is starting to get on my last nerve...

 

[Turnadot]

I'm confident you are correct. The entire house, the outbuildings would be listed separately in the description but if the Judge agreed they had probable cause to search, that's all that is required. The law has been carefully followed in this case. There will be no constitutional challenge on today's search.

all, JMO

No it isn't.

They must also list items expected to be seized. Because if they don't - The warrant is unconstitutional, and a defense lawyer will make mince meat out of it.

That's not my opinion; it's a fact - see the United States Constitution for details.

And I'm tried of chasing my tail, so I'm going to drop this.

 

[MyBelle]

Regarding the search warrants, I think it depends on what's being searched for and the probable cause given by LE that dictate which areas of a property might be approved for a search. For example, a warrant is not gonna be approved to dig up, say, an entire yard or knock walls down to look for a box of stolen DVDs. There have to be limitations in scope to prevent LE from going on a fishing expedition to look for any ol' thing they can find to incriminate someone.

A search is a sort of fishing expedition. If a Judge is persuaded there is sufficient probable cause, he's going to grant that fishing expedition.

JMO

 

[lauriej]

It is possible that the previous owners of the home had a security system installed and subscribed to the monthly service which monitors the alarm. When DB moved in , she would have had to have the service transferred to her name and billed accordingly. If she did not want the added expense of the monitoring service she probably did not continue it. She would still have the sign for the yard because the alarm system is still there, it's just not hooked up. DB and JI had trouble keeping up with the phone bill so I doubt they were springing for the security monitoring. MOO

..the house showing the ADT security sign is the house next door to baby lisa's.

..also, prior to deborah moving in---jeremy has had that house for almost 10 years.

 

[SyraKelly]

It does seem with this case..things happen late-around 8 or 9 pm..so MAYBE something will happen soon..

 

[my_tee_mouse]

O/T

I dunno...that's what I heard just now on NPR. Guy kept them, decided to commit suicide and let all these wild animals loose first.

You can't make this stuff up, folks. :crazy:

Talk about bad reporting: One reporter said the guy committed suicide and (then) let the animals out!!!

 

[frankie069]

You see, here is my problem. Having been involved with the law on many occasions and no its not because I am a bad person, just knew some people that had some issues, I can say that a search of a house and a warrant are two different things. There is no doubt that the family let the police search, search as in come in and see where our daughter was kidnapped from. Look around, see, this is her room where she was taken, lets take fingerprints, there was a kidnapping here, lets look at the window, that might be how they came in the house, lets take fingerprints, lets look around her room and see if the kidnapper left anything behind..... etc.. BUT when the situation changes and you have parents now that are becoming suspects because stories change and lies are coming out, then you need a warrant to take things now that belong to the parents. You are now in a possible murder investigation, I dont think the police are treating this as a kidnapping anymore. I am sure the parents have let the police in, we have seen them on TV coming out of the house and checking things but never a detailed search like this. There is no way in hades that these parents would have let them tear their house apart like this. I am glad LE got that warrant to cover themselves.

 

[Paige SC]

Talk about bad reporting: One reporter said the guy committed suicide and (then) let the animals out!!!

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[frankie069]

Here is a little info on your 4th Amendment.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_and_seizure"]Search and seizure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[nursebeeme]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7255121&postcount=213"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Live MSM coverage on Baby Lisa 19 October 2011[/ame]

bringing this over from the media thread

 

[sorrell skye]

Regarding the subject of search warrants: I agree with some of what MyBelle has said.

In Hailey Dunn's case, the SW covered the entire house (including the surrounding yard, any outbuildings, etc.). The same was true in the Rebecca Zahau case (the SW included the entire mansion, the guesthouse, the caretakers quarters, the garage, the courtyard, etc.).

When seeking a SW of a crime scene, an investigator will typically include the entire residence in the affidavit, as well as any existing outbuildings, garages, yard, vehicles, etc.

IME, the only things that vary from SW to SW will be the items sought from the premises as they relate to the suspected crime, based upon the probable cause affidavit, as well as based upon what the investigating officer's experience with previous similar crimes has led him/her to believe they might find in the course of the investigation.

This has been my experience, as a former DV victim's advocate.

ETA: I would also add that if an investigator lists something that may be considered "unusual" in the SW affidavit, he/she will be questioned by the Judge/Magistrate to defend the need to seize that item.

 

[MyBelle]

No it isn't.

They must also list items expected to be seized. Because if they don't - The warrant is unconstitutional, and a defense lawyer will make mince meat out of it.

That's not my opinion; it's a fact - see the United States Constitution for details.

And I'm tried of chasing my tail, so I'm going to drop this.

You are incorrect. All that is needed to be listed on a search warrant as far as items expected to be found is generally listed as trace evidence or financial documents or writings or DNA, fingerprints, hair, information that will help solve the crime. Evidence gathered by such searches doesn't have to be detailed such as "sheetrock containing fingerprint" or "chair containing fingerprints." Property seized during a search warrant is usually listed on an inventory but those can also be sealed.

JMO

 

[Turnadot]

A search is a sort of fishing expedition. If a Judge is persuaded there is sufficient probable cause, he's going to grant that fishing expedition.

JMO

I'm sorry, but this is maddening. Do you really believe a judge is going to crap all over the US Constitution? No judge who wants to keep their bench is going to grant a fishing expedition via a search warrant.

<Mod Snip>

 

[Sherbie]

A search is a sort of fishing expedition. If a Judge is persuaded there is sufficient probable cause, he's going to grant that fishing expedition.

JMO

Right, to an extent it is. There has to be probable cause to search, but the scope has to be defined as well (and in some cases it could well include an entire property and everything found on/in it, as appears to be the situation in this case).

An example of what I meant: probable cause to search for and collect computer hard drives at a business likely wouldn't translate to a search warrant allowing LE to also go on a fishing expedition in the personal lockers of employees to see if anyone is hiding a little stash of weed. KWIM?

 

[Kimster]

Under the Fourth Amendment, searches must be reasonable and specific. This means that a search warrant must be specific as to the specified object to be searched for and the place to be searched. Other items, rooms, outbuildings, persons, vehicles, etc. may require additional search warrants.

To obtain a search warrant, an officer must first prove that probable cause exists before a magistrate or judge, based upon direct information (i.e. obtained by the officer's personal observation) or hearsay information. Hearsay information can even be obtained by oral testimony given over a telephone, or through an anonymous or confidential informant, so long as probable cause exists based on the totality of the circumstances. Both property and persons can be seized under a search warrant. The standard for a search warrant is lower than the quantum of proof required for a later conviction. The rationale is that the evidence that can be collected without a search warrant may not be sufficient to convict, but may be sufficient to suggest that enough evidence to convict could be found using the warrant.

Much more at link ----->[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_warrant"]Search warrant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]