Legal Q&A for Rhornsby #2

[autumnlover]

As for the order of the bags, I defer to all of you. I have not paid close enough attention.

But do this. Go grab a roll of duct tape, tear off three pieces, and place them on something.

Now ask yourself, if the FBI were to check those three pieces of duct tape six months from now, would the impressions from my fingertips still be present on the sticky side of the tape?

The answer is yes, and if you carried out my experiment, you would see your fingers touched the sticky part hundreds of time.

If I'm not mistaken, the only report we've seen so far excludes Cindy, George and Lee. It doesn't mention Casey, at all. It seems as if that silence is deafening. I wonder if there's another report that has not been released to the public.

 

[JBean]

I did a quick move of posts to the new thread. i am going back over it but if anyone sees anything that would be more appropriate on the other thread, please hit the little triangle in the upper right corner of the post i should move. When the text box comes up. let me know it should be moved.


I know this thread generates a lot of ideas, but if we could keep comments to a minimum and gear it to questions and answers it will be a much more productive thread.

Thanks from everyone.

 

[Omachka]

As for the order of the bags, I defer to all of you. I have not paid close enough attention.

But do this. Go grab a roll of duct tape, tear off three pieces, and place them on something.

Now ask yourself, if the FBI were to check those three pieces of duct tape six months from now, would the impressions from my fingertips still be present on the sticky side of the tape?

The answer is yes, and if you carried out my experiment, you would see your fingers touched the sticky part hundreds of time.

I haven't made my mind up yet as to whether or not I think she had help I waver back and forth on my thinking. Yes, I realize how heavy how hard to handle but I don't think impossible if the bags were used immediately. The purpose of the laundry bag IMO was to make this easier for her to handle herself. I do think she had some help after the fact in her parents trying to clean up the car.

I tried your experiment though... no finger prints but maybe fibers from my garden gloves.

 

[impatientredhead]

I haven't made my mind up yet as to whether or not I think she had help I waver back and forth on my thinking. Yes, I realize how heavy how hard to handle but I don't think impossible if the bags were used immediately. The purpose of the laundry bag IMO was to make this easier for her to handle herself. I do think she had some help after the fact in her parents trying to clean up the car.

I tried your experiment though... no finger prints but maybe fibers from my garden gloves.

I have always thought that the laundry bag was to make it both easier to carry and to draw less attention. Walking through the living room or to her car with a laundry bag is not going to register as odd to many people. I have always felt Caylee died in Casey's bedroom and left the house in the laundry bag. moo

 

[JSR]

Mr Hornsby,
I have been reading the new motions Baez filed tonight and something stands out to me.
After each, he and Andrea's name are in print along with "one of the attorney's for Casey Anthony"
Is that normal?
Just seems so uh..grade school to me..

Yes and No. It's common for multiple attorneys representing a client to be listed on the signature block and caption on the front of the document (if it's a civil case). But typically only one attorney signs the document. Unless it's a joint submission such as a stipulation in which case counsel for all parties need to sign. However, I've never seen "one of the attorney's for ". I've seen "Attorney's for Defendant(s)/Plaintiff(s)/Petitioner/Respondent".

 

[CDMORLANDO]

I have wondered if she will try to claim he made her refuse a plea, didn't tell her about an offer made by the state. That is the only thing I can come up with at all.

I would assume even JB knows not to trust Casey and has a well documented file of their discussion of any and all offers and her acknowledgement that she alone is declining them.

Even if he doesn't she has been in the court room with the judge several times and will be several more times before a jury hears the case. She has been asked if she has any questions about the proceedings, so that would work against her. moo

While motions are written and submitted by counsel, you notice that it is the defended that is making the claim. To try this her avenue she would need to admit to the crime.

Allocution is normally required of a defendant who pleads guilty to a crime in a plea bargain in exchange for a reduced sentence. "If i had know that I would only get 10 years I would have admitted to the crime." Death penalty convicts never say they are sorry before the Judge passes sentencing because it is an admission of the crime and can bar appeal. You appeal guilt not phase (error in the finding of guilt) or the penalty phase (evidence was allowed/not allowed) that would have changed the penalty recommendation.


Not that he told me we could beat the charges but I lost.....

 

[mydailyopinions]

Yes and No. It's common for multiple attorneys representing a client to be listed on the signature block and caption on the front of the document (if it's a civil case). But typically only one attorney signs the document. Unless it's a joint submission such as a stipulation in which case counsel for all parties need to sign. However, I've never seen "one of the attorney's for ". I've seen "Attorney's for Defendant(s)/Plaintiff(s)/Petitioner/Respondent".

That is exactly what I was thinking..I have never seen it typed that way..
I don't know why it stuck out to me so much, other than thinking the rest was just garbage..lol JMHO

 

[impatientredhead]

While motions are written and submitted by counsel, you notice that it is the defended that is making the claim. To try this her avenue she would need to admit to the crime.

Allocution is normally required of a defendant who pleads guilty to a crime in a plea bargain in exchange for a reduced sentence. "If i had know that I would only get 10 years I would have admitted to the crime." Death penalty convicts never say they are sorry before the Judge passes sentencing because it is an admission of the crime and can bar appeal. You appeal guilt not phase (error in the finding of guilt) or the penalty phase (evidence was allowed/not allowed) that would have changed the penalty recommendation.


Not that he told me we could beat the charges but I lost.....

Right but not all cases are high profile cases where one could argue that JB put his interests ahead of his client by encouraging her or withholding information that would have wrapped this case up much earlier resulting in both less money, fame, and camera time for said attorney. I said I thought it would be a weak claim, but from what we have seen thus far it is the closest thing I could see her claiming for inadequate counsel.

 

[mydailyopinions]

I haven't made my mind up yet as to whether or not I think she had help I waver back and forth on my thinking. Yes, I realize how heavy how hard to handle but I don't think impossible if the bags were used immediately. The purpose of the laundry bag IMO was to make this easier for her to handle herself. I do think she had some help after the fact in her parents trying to clean up the car.

I tried your experiment though... no finger prints but maybe fibers from my garden gloves.

Unless she put Caylee in the bags while alive, like a game or something for Caylee, and that is how she died...
I guess we will never know.

 

[DaughterAlice]

I apologize in advance to those who my blunt language is about to offend, so turn away if you are squeamish.

Forensically, her car was fairly clean. There seems to be a complete lack of fingerprint evidence that should still be available (home test: go tear off a piece of duct tape and
see how often and firmly your fingers touch the tape side).

And lets talk superhuman strength, imagine a dead limp body. It cannot be easy to maneuver and even harder to get inside a small bag. And based on the evidence, when she finally disposed of the body it was already decaying, which means there would have been bodily fluid. Someone was bright enough to either think in advance, or get the original laundry bag into black plastic bags - that takes two people.

Okay, I got started and i am finished because i just know someone helped her - someone with law enforcement experience is my guess.

snipped.




In all due respect, Mr. Hornsby, your logic is flawed. Anyone who has ever watched any crime show or read a crime novel knows an awful lot about forensic evidence. Even on a basic level, the most common person knows how to wipe off fingerprints & vacuum up fibers, etc. I think that even I could clean up a crime scene fairly well, and I have absolutely no experience in either committing or investigating crimes. (I'm very boring, I don't even speed or run red lights.)

As for fingerprints on the duct tape, did you happen to look at the photos of remaining duct tape? Not much more than fibers were left!! I'm not really sure how anyone could get prints off that, but hey, maybe I'm wrong.

KC had help? Here is the greated flaw of all . . . . who would she sit in jail all these many months to protect? One of her parents? I think she's already proven up & down & inside and out that she has no respect for them. Her brother maybe? One of her numerous boyfriends? The friends she lies to and steals from? Honestly, I don't think she has the abillity to be that trusting and protective of anyone but herself.

All that said, I still thank you for your opinion. Please don't think you are under attack or anything, I would debate these matters with ANY WSer on this forum. Debate is healthy!

 

[rhornsby]

snipped.

In all due respect, Mr. Hornsby, your logic is flawed. Anyone who has ever watched any crime show or read a crime novel knows an awful lot about forensic evidence. Even on a basic level, the most common person knows how to wipe off fingerprints & vacuum up fibers, etc. I think that even I could clean up a crime scene fairly well, and I have absolutely no experience in either committing or investigating crimes. (I'm very boring, I don't even speed or run red lights.)

As for fingerprints on the duct tape, did you happen to look at the photos of remaining duct tape? Not much more than fibers were left!! I'm not really sure how anyone could get prints off that, but hey, maybe I'm wrong.

KC had help? Here is the greated flaw of all . . . . who would she sit in jail all these many months to protect? One of her parents? I think she's already proven up & down & inside and out that she has no respect for them. Her brother maybe? One of her numerous boyfriends? The friends she lies to and steals from? Honestly, I don't think she has the abillity to be that trusting and protective of anyone but herself.

All that said, I still thank you for your opinion. Please don't think you are under attack or anything, I would debate these matters with ANY WSer on this forum. Debate is healthy!

No offense taken at all. None of my thoughts regarding these issues are based on any law, just my personal thoughts.

 

[rhornsby]

But in this experiment, is the tape placed on a body that later decomposes, goes through a hurricane, and then sits under water for months, to the point where the "sticky side" of the tape no longer exists?

I am no forensics expert, but it has been my experience that tape is the number one place that fingerprints can be obtained long after they were put there.

But I am not disagreeing with the questions you raise either, I am just saying...

 

[rhornsby]

If you are absolutely & truly morally offended by Casey, by her actions from beginning to end, in their entirety, isn't it going to be human nature that when asked to choose between 2 positions (the state vs. the defense), you're gonna come down on the side of the state? And how the heck is the defense going to get around that?

Blaise

Good question, but I have never been on a jury - and I try not to leave my juries with that question.

 

[rhornsby]

I asked this before but did not see you respond
Mr. Hornsby,

This trial is slated to start sometime in 2010 from what I have read. my question first is do you think that will happen?

2nd question: do you think there may be the possiblity of the defense or prosecution seeking to get a plea deal on this case?

Thank you in advance.

1. I think a summer 2010 trial date is realistic.
2. I think plea negotiations are probably ongoing and likely to pick up the closer to D day. With that said, the State's idea of a plea "deal" may not be Ms. Anthony's.

 

[rhornsby]

Are my hands bare or do I have gloves on?

Exactly.

 

[MD MOMMY]

Did Baez ever respond to the email you sent back on the listserv?

 

[rhornsby]

Respectfully bolded by me.

OMGosh! I can't believe I just logged on after a short time away & noticed these posts first! I've thought she had help since the very beginning, including her Diary of Days...which seems as though somebody guided her in how she could beat this and she wrote it down in poetic form as a reminder to herself! The first person people may think of is her father...but I don't think it's him...don't think it's Jesse either. As a matter of fact, I think it's another officer that could have guided her along. Not sure who would have helped her move Caylee, but her brother could fit that bill...I just don't see it being him, though.

Mr. Hornsby, do you happen to know if members of the OCSO frequent escort services once in awhile...say, maybe meet up at the Hard Rock Hotel? Just wondering...

Have to log off but I'll try to get back on later.

Boys will be boys I suppose.

 

[Blaise]

Will Casey take the stand?

Who, among the defense team, will give the opening and closing? None seem to be especially gifted speakers, but then again none of the state's attorneys are, either.

Blaise

 

[rhornsby]

I am convinced she did not murder Caylee.
100% convinced.

Well I am 100% convinced she knows how Caylee died.

 

[rhornsby]

With all due respect to my fellow posters, can we please stay on topic on this thread and not turn it into another discussion/debate thread? I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing and debating topics amongst ourselves, but can we please keep this thread for Q and A with Mr. Hornsby?

Having said that, I would like to ask Mr. Hornsby:

All the evidence and information that has come out in the press... which side do you think it has helped the most and why?

I think the State has benefited for the most part - especially when Baez was unchecked by anyone who knew what they were doing and constantly putting his foot in his mouth.

With that said, I think Andrea Lyon has been positive for Casey Anthony as of late.