Leslie Van Houten up for parole again

[heartfortruth]

I didn't see this anywhere but that is not possible! Fast, fast Websleuthers ALWAYS beat me to the punch! LOL

just reading the names of these people gives me chills.....I remember so well when that happened......

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100705/ap_on_re_us/us_manson_follower

LOS ANGELES – Leslie Van Houten, the one-time Charles Manson follower long seen as the most likely of his ex-acolytes to win freedom someday, faces her 19th parole hearing with a new lawyer and new case law which may give her the best chance yet for release.

 

[tapu]

I'm quite ambivalent about her getting parole. In my studied opinion, she has served adequate time to pay for her level of involvement. I don't believe she would be a danger to society. One side matter to consider: Would a member of the Manson family really be safe from others, outside prison?

I'm interested in seeing the discussion about this. I have quite a few books and films for reference if anyone has specific questions about the crimes, the killers, the victims, etc.

 

[panthera]

Another question I would have is what would she do if released from prison ~ such as where would she live, where would she get a job (in a state with a high unemployment rate), etc? She has spent all of her adult life in prison and my concern would be adjusting to the outside world, not so much that she would commit another crime, but generally speaking since she has been incarcerated for 41 years and most people remember or have heard of the Manson family murders.

 

[kbl8201]

no way.

if not for the stupid ruling in 1973 manson and his chicks would had been gassed years ago.

they didnt show any mercy on there victims, including a woman who was 8 months pregnant and 2 elderly people.

let her rot

 

[tapu]

Another question I would have is what would she do if released from prison ~ such as where would she live, where would she get a job (in a state with a high unemployment rate), etc? She has spent all of her adult life in prison and my concern would be adjusting to the outside world, not so much that she would commit another crime, but generally speaking since she has been incarcerated for 41 years and most people remember or have heard of the Manson family murders.

I've read that she has had several offers of employment, from her lawyers' offices and from friends of her family. This has been cited and backed up at the earlier parole hearings. Also--though this certainly doesn't guarantee a job--she has earned a bachelor's and (I think) a master's degree in prison. She also has organized and managed several service and educational groups inside Frontera.

 

[heartfortruth]

There is quite a bit of information all over the internet right now if anyone wants to "refresh" their memory of these unspeakable events and people involved.

Not very "refreshing" , however........

"trending" on Yahoo....# 1.........
I went to one site.....enough to do more damage to my psyche today ...along with missing Alisa........think I'll go get some breaths of fresh air and cool off a bit.....
I just don't know what I think about LVH being released.....
any more thoughts?

 

[tapu]

Well.... It was found at trial that she didn't kill anyone. She did, however, stab Rosemary LaBianca as she lay dead. Some have argued that she had to follow orders. Patricia Krenwinkle and Charles "Tex" Watson were urging her to stab someone because they didn't want anyone to be without "blood on their hands" so none of them could turn the others in.

LVH was not present the first night when "The Family" entered Sharon Tate's house and gruesomely murdered everyone in sight. She went along the 2nd night only.

LVH was very young when this occurred. (Altho come to think of it, I was married at that age. Hm. Well, see, I didn't know what I was doing either!)

 

[LinasK]

Well.... It was found at trial that she didn't kill anyone. She did, however, stab Rosemary LaBianca as she lay dead. Some have argued that she had to follow orders. Patricia Krenwinkle and Charles "Tex" Watson were urging her to stab someone because they didn't want anyone to be without "blood on their hands" so none of them could turn the others in.

LVH was not present the first night when "The Family" entered Sharon Tate's house and gruesomely murdered everyone in sight. She went along the 2nd night only. So what? One night of murder and mayhem is bad enough!

LVH was very young when this occurred. (Altho come to think of it, I was married at that age. Hm. Well, see, I didn't know what I was doing either!)

My comment in red. Sorry, I strongly disagree!!! And I'm old enough to remember the Manson Murders well. I lived in L.A. at the time. She stabbed Rosemary LaBianca 16 times!!! That is killing someone, and she could have refused, even if all she did was hold her down, which is still actively assisting in a murder! Susan Atkins died in prison, so should Leslie Van Houten and Patricia Krenwinkle, no sympathy here!:furious::furious::furious:

 

[Kimster]

She needs to serve her sentence - life.

 

[tapu]

Kim,

Her sentence, after the DP was overthrown in CA, is Life With the Possibility of Parole. Not just Life.

I'm just working with the facts as I know them. I am quite conflicted as to my own opinion.

 

[tapu]

My comment in red. Sorry, I strongly disagree!!! And I'm old enough to remember the Manson Murders well. I lived in L.A. at the time. She stabbed Rosemary LaBianca 16 times!!! That is killing someone, and she could have refused, even if all she did was hold her down, which is still actively assisting in a murder! Susan Atkins died in prison, so should Leslie Van Houten and Patricia Krenwinkle, no sympathy here!:furious::furious::furious:

Yes, I remember it well, too. <shudder>

I believe Rosemary LaBianca was stabbed 16 times, but not by Leslie. Isn't that right, that Leslie stabbed her after death and a few times? I could be remembering it wrong.... I'm really trying to work with the facts--as with any complicated and "seasoned" case, there are lots of varying accounts.

It's interesting that you think she could have refused. If you had just seen your companions kill two people by stabbing, with no regard for anything, and now they were telling you you had to stab the body, wouldn't you figure that they'd kill you if you didn't? I can kind of see a 19yo succumbing to that.

Another thing is: Back then, the US was far less familiar with the phenomenon of a cult, and with the hold that someone psychologically powerful could have on teens and even adults. If this crime were not so sensationalized, would we have a different perspective on the possibilities of that, now that we've learned from Koresh, "Doe," Solar Temple, etc.?

 

[panthera]

No ruling yet? The most updated article I'm finding says the hearing began this afternoon. :waitasec:

http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_15447240?nclick_check=1

 

[LinasK]

No ruling yet? The most updated article I'm finding says the hearing began this afternoon. :waitasec:

http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_15447240?nclick_check=1

It's only 5:20 here on the West Coast...

 

[LinasK]

Yes, I remember it well, too. <shudder>

I believe Rosemary LaBianca was stabbed 16 times, but not by Leslie. Isn't that right, that Leslie stabbed her after death and a few times? I could be remembering it wrong.... I'm really trying to work with the facts--as with any complicated and "seasoned" case, there are lots of varying accounts.

It's interesting that you think she could have refused. If you had just seen your companions kill two people by stabbing, with no regard for anything, and now they were telling you you had to stab the body, wouldn't you figure that they'd kill you if you didn't? I can kind of see a 19yo succumbing to that.

Another thing is: Back then, the US was far less familiar with the phenomenon of a cult, and with the hold that someone psychologically powerful could have on teens and even adults. If this crime were not so sensationalized, would we have a different perspective on the possibilities of that, now that we've learned from Koresh, "Doe," Solar Temple, etc.?

Van Houten, who was 19 at the time, told CNN's "Larry King Live" in 2002 that she herself stabbed Rosemary LaBianca 16 times. http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/07/06/manson.family.parole/?hpt=T2

 

[panthera]

It's only 5:20 here on the West Coast...

Thanks ~ I just didn't know if it was still ongoing or not.

 

[LinasK]

By Mark Morgenstein, CNN
July 6, 2010 8:34 p.m. EDT
(CNN) -- Charles Manson family acolyte Leslie Van Houten has been denied parole for the 19th time, California authorities announced Tuesday.
Before the ruling, lawyer Brandie Devall said she was "excited" about the appearance because she can bolster her argument with rulings in two cases from the California Supreme Court since Van Houten's last parole hearing in 2007. Each case was recently upheld by federal courts. more at link: http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/07/06/manson.family.parole/?hpt=T1

 

[Gozgals]

There was no mercy for the poor victims stabbed and there should be no mercy given to these horrid killers. That is what they are. Just because they are old now does not take away what they did. They killed innocent people in cold blood and a pregnant woman. These were people who had their whole life in front of them. They should have died years ago when they had the DP. I'm sorry but I have no feelings for them. They make me sick. No compassion at all. I feel for all their victims. The poor LaBianca's who deserved to be together till their life ended when it was their time. I cry when I think about what Manson and his followers did to all these people. It is still one of the worst crimes we have witnessed in our lifetime.

Thank God she did not get parole. I don't care that she changed or any of them did. What they did is not to be forgiven by us on earth, only a higher power can do that.

Always
Goz

 

[tapu]

I would think... that if they didn't parole her this time, they never will. I do feel like my own mind is made up more in the direction of keeping her in forever; mainly by the point made that she has never seemed remorseful. I've thought that of her before, when I've seen earlier parole hearings on tape. She says she's so very sorry, and of course it's hard to tell when someone is lying (that's why we have lie detectors), but something strikes me as cold and rehearsed when Leslie says this. She may very well have a degree of psychopathy, and if so, would always be a danger to society. That argument is more convincing to me than the "most horrible crime" so she should have died argument. There are many crimes, many are horrible; we have to apply the death penalty judiciously or we head toward Shari'a law.

I was thinking something else about this yesterday, before the verdict: high-profile crimes like this often have erroneous info reported about them, and in an old case like this, a mythology has grown up. It is very hard to know, at this point, what the circumstances were. (Think Ramsey case, but much longer for the myth to develop.) Also, I think that in this case, we lump all the defendants together: they committed the crime together, they were caught together, they were tried and sentenced together, they have been in prison together for 40 years. But they are not all the same, and they did not do the same things, for the same causes; nor has their incarceration time been spent the same way.

It's hard in the face of a crime like this, and in the face of the pop and media and political coverage of this particular case, to separate bias from reason. Guess that's what judges are for....

 

[heartfortruth]

as I read here and and read about LVH I wonder:
If I had been part of that massacre IN ANY WAY and if , before going before the board ,I read about what happened ...(as we have read) ..and I had any grasp of reality and the courage to really look at myself truthfully......I THINK (no one knows until they are in the situation) I would WANT to stay in prison and continue to live the life I was used to but / and let God work it out. In the end, Only God knows the hearts and minds of man. (Except for "The Shadow" , of course.

 

[Nyla4]

I knew she didn't have a chance at parole after the Arnold reversed the boards decision to grant parole to Bruce Davis. IMO Bruce is the only one of tha group still locked up who ever had a chance at walking out of prison. I honestly don't even believe he killed anyone.

LVH says she only stabbed a dead person but she also held her victim down and helped put a pillowcase and lamp around her head. Plus, whose to say Rosemary was even dead when Leslie stabbed her? She obviously wasn't traumatized by murder because she was able to eat food from the victims fridge and flirt with the hitch-hiker who brought her home after the cruel act.

I think it is ironic and disgusting that the only "major" known member California paroled (Steve Grogan) had a child molesting charge. Thank God he has not re offended.