Lie Detector Tests & Corruption: A public figure speaks out

[wondering1]

BBM:

It was..."..Oh no, there's only 5...where's Kyron?"...asked by the "substitute" who was actually a volunteer. And after the teacher replied with the bathroom probability, "she" said..."oh...ok...I'm leaving then". There is confusion here in that we don't really know whether this was after the group came back from touring the other classes or when they were forming groups to begin.

Not gitana, obviously, but I don't think she was literally asking what the question was. What I *think* she meant is that when it came time to mark Kyron absent, or take the class to lunch, or get ready for the talent show, or whatever, no one seemed to remember the concerned "where's kyron" question because they would have said, "omg, he didn't ever come back from the water fountain or bathroom!" In other words, there is tension between the teacher saying he was at the water fountain or bathroom in response to a concerned inquiry, then that same teacher not noticing or being concerned when he never came back. In the first scenario, he's clearly missing. In the second scenario, he left with TH to go to the dr.'s. They are totally inconsistent if true. It's been bugging me for a long time, too. I have concluded that LE has talked to the volunteer parent and the teacher (who we know appeared before the GJ) and has discounted TP's version of events. I would love to know why, of course, but doubt I ever will. jmoo

 

[gardeness]

Not gitana, obviously, but I don't think she was literally asking what the question was. What I *think* she meant is that when it came time to mark Kyron absent, or take the class to lunch, or get ready for the talent show, or whatever, no one seemed to remember the concerned "where's kyron" question because they would have said, "omg, he didn't ever come back from the water fountain or bathroom!" In other words, there is tension between the teacher saying he was at the water fountain or bathroom in response to a concerned inquiry, then that same teacher not noticing or being concerned when he never came back. In the first scenario, he's clearly missing. In the second scenario, he left with TH to go to the dr.'s. They are totally inconsistent if true. It's been bugging me for a long time, too. I have concluded that LE has talked to the volunteer parent and the teacher (who we know appeared before the GJ) and has discounted TP's version of events. I would love to know why, of course, but doubt I ever will. jmoo

bbm

I thought the principal went before the GJ, with a "statement" from the teacher?

 

[wondering1]

bbm

I thought the principal went before the GJ, with a "statement" from the teacher?

Hmmm...could be. I'll have to check. I thought she was there in person toward the very end because I remember being glad about that.

eta: Here's a link

A number of people have testified before a grand jury in the Kyron Horman case. The latest Is Kyron Horman’s homeroom teacher, Kristina Porter.
http://www.examiner.com/amber-alert...-homeroom-teacher-testifies-before-grand-jury

 

[wondering1]

bbm

I thought the principal went before the GJ, with a "statement" from the teacher?

I think this is what you are thinking of:

Friday it was Skyline School principal Ben Keefer who arrived just after 2 p.m. to appear. He left by 4:10 p.m. and told reporters he had "no comment."

Keefer was on hand at one of the press conferences early on in the investigation into the disappearance of the missing 7-year-old boy.

He read a statement from Kyron's teacher Christine Porter in early June.
"The students in Kyron's class miss him terribly and we are all wishing for his safe return," she wrote. "We look forward to Kyron returning to us soon."

http://www.koinlocal6.com/mostpopul...al-appears-before/2Ls683NdO0mfFAKnUn2ZHQ.cspx

 

[gardeness]

I still think the fact that TY is in LE has directed this case, if only giving credence to his and DY's "gut" feelings. It seemed that KH believed Terri and defended her in the beginning. But his quick moves to divorce Terri without even talking to her (!) and taking their daughter, makes me suspicious of him also.

I've questioned this, too...

 

[gardeness]

I think this is what you are thinking of:

Friday it was Skyline School principal Ben Keefer who arrived just after 2 p.m. to appear. He left by 4:10 p.m. and told reporters he had "no comment."

Keefer was on hand at one of the press conferences early on in the investigation into the disappearance of the missing 7-year-old boy.

He read a statement from Kyron's teacher Christine Porter in early June.
"The students in Kyron's class miss him terribly and we are all wishing for his safe return," she wrote. "We look forward to Kyron returning to us soon."

http://www.koinlocal6.com/mostpopul...al-appears-before/2Ls683NdO0mfFAKnUn2ZHQ.cspx

Ahhh, yes! That confused me!

 

[gardeness]

Hmmm...could be. I'll have to check. I thought she was there in person toward the very end because I remember being glad about that.

eta: Here's a link

A number of people have testified before a grand jury in the Kyron Horman case. The latest Is Kyron Horman’s homeroom teacher, Kristina Porter.
http://www.examiner.com/amber-alert...-homeroom-teacher-testifies-before-grand-jury

Thank you!

 

[stmarysmead]

I've questioned this, too...

Do we know he filed for divorce "without even talking to her?"

We do know that police told him that the Landscaper had alleged Terri tried to hire him to kill Kaine.

I'm guessing that an Engineer data-driven type like Kaine would need more than just.... "he-said/she-said....to believe that story.

But at the least, it appears he DID believe the story. If he believed she tried to kill him, and his little boy is missing, and he has a Baby to protect...what exactly is "suspicious" about Kaine leaving? Should he have stayed? Should he have left the Baby, in those circumstances?

Let's remember...his son is already missing.

If Kaine were my son and Baby K, my grandchild, I would want him out of there once "murder-for-hire" came into the story. I would never imagine that would make him an object of suspicion.

 

[gardeness]

Do we know he filed for divorce "without even talking to her?"

We do know that police told him that the Landscaper had alleged Terri tried to hire him to kill Kaine.

I'm guessing that an Engineer data-driven type like Kaine would need more than just.... "he-said/she-said....to believe that story.

But at the least, it appears he DID believe the story. If he believed she tried to kill him, and his little boy is missing, and he has a Baby to protect...what exactly is "suspicious" about Kaine leaving? Should he have stayed? Should he have left the Baby, in those circumstances?

Let's remember...his son is already missing.


If Kaine were my son and Baby K, my grandchild, I would want him out of there once "murder-for-hire" came into the story. I would never imagine that would make him an object of suspicion.

If you're asking for a link, no, I don't have one--just based on Terri calling 911 and the email released from her, it seems he didn't communicate with her at all before leaving. It appears to have come out of nowhere for her.

ETA: Here is a link to the article about the email the day Kaine left: http://www.kptv.com/news/24581546/detail.html

 

[i.b.nora]

Let's stick to real media sources as opposed to fake media sources.

Here is a report from KPTV on Monday August 9th: "Also on Monday, a Portland grand jury continued to hear testimony and Kyron's homeroom teacher, Kristina Porter, was seen leaving the courthouse. She did not comment on the session."

 

[KopDog]

BBM

I am one person who believes that if Terri had not secured an attorney she would have been arrested long ago. moo mho

For me, this case was moving along parallel lines with the Riley Fox case here in Illinois. Riley is a 3yo girl found raped and murdered and thrown in a creek. Her father, Kevin, was the one and only suspect. The drive by LE to arrest him was intense and focused. Kevin didn't get an attorney because as he said, I'm innocent. He failed lie detector tests (so he was told) and finally, after hours of interrogation, falsely confessed to the crime. Kevin was arrested on the eve of an important election here in Illinois. moo

Kevin was vindicated of the crime years later when LE finally tested the DNA found in Riley. This only happened because Kevin's brother went to a criminal defense attorney and asked for help. Kevin and his x-wife just won millions in a lawsuit against LE. moo

While following Kyron's case, I began to experience the same exasperation and alarm as I did in the Fox case. Very similiar! Sickening similar. Another recent case here in Illinois is that of Jerry Hobbs. Almost the same as the Fox case.

Thank goodness for good criminal defense attorneys!

It happens, LE can get caught up in their own frenzy - they can have tunnel vision just like any of the rest of us. LE are not perfect, they are human. moo mho

i live in Chicago and agree with you 100% and it is probably those 2 cases (that have been in the news lately) - that have given me pause to not rush judgement just because the step mom turned out to not be a perfect human being when we got a closer look at her life.

 

[Steely Dan]

I still think the fact that TY is in LE has directed this case, if only giving credence to his and DY's "gut" feelings. It seemed that KH believed Terri and defended her in the beginning. But his quick moves to divorce Terri without even talking to her (!) and taking their daughter, makes me suspicious of him also.

I respectfully disagree. In a situation where a husband's child is missing, his wife seems to be uncooperative with the investigation and the police have shown him evidence that she was trying to kill him, it makes complete sense to me.

bbm

I have suspicions about that claim because there was a 911 call to the police in May (I believe) from the Horman house. That call has been sealed at the request of LE. If this landscaper believed seriously that TH had solicited him for a murder-for-hire plot, why did he wait to notify the police. It seems odd to me that he is dug up by LE investigating Kyron's disappearance and he suddenly remembers that TH wanted him to kill her husband??? This sounds very much like a quid pro quo deal to me...for example, what can you tell us to help out here and we'll forget that you're in the country illegally. Maybe I'm wrong, it won't be the first time.

I just need to reiterate that I don't have a firm opinion of TH's guilt or innocence yet. For the life of me, I can't understand how anyone can have a firm conviction one way or the other, based on the meager information we have been given. I just feel strongly that LE has focussed on TH to the exclusion of equally possible theories. Primary among those is a child predator on the loose and escaping capture. I understand DY's mother's instinct, but I too believe that her suspicions from the onset (as she herself has related) have steered and bolstered LE's efforts in this case. I actually wish that they're correct in their focus because at least we'll know that a maniac is not on the prowl for more innocent children.

BBM

What evidence do you have that he's an illegal?

He said, IIRC, that at the time he wasn't sure she was serious. Then when all of the excrement starts hitting the oscillating air moving device and it looks like she may have had a hand in Kyron's disappearance he may have come forward because with all of the new evidence he now believes she was serious.

JMO

 

[stmarysmead]

If you're asking for a link, no, I don't have one--just based on Terri calling 911 and the email released from her, it seems he didn't communicate with her at all before leaving. It appears to have come out of nowhere for her.

ETA: Here is a link to the article about the email the day Kaine left: http://www.kptv.com/news/24581546/detail.html

Okay. I see your point. But aren't there at least two plausible reasons for surprise?

One, she did nothing wrong.

Two, she did PLENTY wrong...but never thought the Murder-for-Hire story would come out.

So how does his leaving unexpectedly, and it coming out of nowhere to Terri...make Kaine "suspicious?"

Even if Terri is innocent, learning that police believe your wife tried to hire someone to kill you is a very traumatic, frightening event for a spouse. Compound that by learning this at a time when your child is missing.

Is it so hard to understand Kaine's reaction or why he left?

 

[Steely Dan]

i live in Chicago and agree with you 100% and it is probably those 2 cases (that have been in the news lately) - that have given me pause to not rush judgement just because the step mom turned out to not be a perfect human being when we got a closer look at her life.

If you believe that TH tried to hire a hit man to off her husband that goes beyond being imperfect. JMO

 

[Wrinkles]

As per the original post...

Somehow I don't think that the results of TH's LDT had much to do with whether a Grand Jury was asked to listen to things. Further, I might think that if anyone felt that TH's LDT results were the only item backing a direction of possible guilt toward TH -- and thus the RO -- that an attorney for TH would have been all over this. They would have been the ones working very hard to prove that the results of an LDT are not "proof of guilt or innocence" -- but that LDTs are used as investigative tools. I might guess that they then (her attorneys) would have very quickly pounced on and against TH having any part in a Murder For Hire thing or her possible involvement in a child's disappearance. Tough as nails, I feel sure that they would have done the work at that point to get TH custody/visitation of her daughter. They did not and I believe they did not because none of this has to do with the results of an LDT.

As per LDTs and corruption, at this point the only evidence of corruption that I can see so far in this case is in TH's corner.

 

[liz b.]

As per the original post...

Somehow I don't think that the results of TH's LDT had much to do with whether a Grand Jury was asked to listen to things. Further, I might think that if anyone felt that TH's LDT results were the only item backing a direction of possible guilt toward TH -- and thus the RO -- that an attorney for TH would have been all over this. They would have been the ones working very hard to prove that the results of an LDT are not "proof of guilt or innocence" -- but that LDTs are used as investigative tools. I might guess that they then (her attorneys) would have very quickly pounced on and against TH having any part in a Murder For Hire thing or her possible involvement in a child's disappearance. Tough as nails, I feel sure that they would have done the work at that point to get TH custody/visitation of her daughter. They did not and I believe they did not because none of this has to do with the results of an LDT.

As per LDTs and corruption, at this point the only evidence of corruption that I can see so far in this case is in TH's corner.

Don't have a link, but IIRC, in the presser before the last one, LE did come out and state that " Polygraphs are only an investigative tool " ( paraphrasing ) .... And of course, this was after TH hired Mr. Houze.... At this time,we don't know what LE or Houze knows about the MFH,or much of anything else, IMO....

All JMO

 

[Wrinkles]

Hello LizB,

Nice to meet you.

You wrote:
>>At this time,we don't know what LE or Houze knows about the MFH,or much of anything else, IMO....<<

LE knew enough to discuss a Murder For Hire with Kaine, Kaine knew enough to request an RO as a result. The judge certainly knows enough to not just believe a Murder For Hire thought from a husband who is requesting full custody of his daughter and an RO. I'd have to believe that the judge was daft if I honestly believed he just granted that RO without expecting a basis for this "MFH thought." Unless I am missing something, I don't think the judge was daft, I think he "knew enough" (learned enough) to grant the RO.

On the other hand, I think it is reasonable to believe that Mr. Houze knew enough from his client that he made the suggestion that she not fight the RO which mentioned a) the reason to believe that TH tried to hire someone to murder Kaine and b) the possible reason to believe that TH had something to do with Kaine's son being missing. I don't think this was just an issue of Mr. Houze, who is thought to be quite skilled, would just roll over if he felt his client had given him the information he needed to handle the matter in short order. On the contrary...

 

[liz b.]

Hello LizB,

Nice to meet you.

You wrote:
>>At this time,we don't know what LE or Houze knows about the MFH,or much of anything else, IMO....<<

LE knew enough to discuss a Murder For Hire with Kaine, Kaine knew enough to request an RO as a result. The judge certainly knows enough to not just believe a Murder For Hire thought from a husband who is requesting full custody of his daughter and an RO. I'd have to believe that the judge was daft if I honestly believed he just granted that RO without expecting a basis for this "MFH thought." Unless I am missing something, I don't think the judge was daft, I think he "knew enough" (learned enough) to grant the RO.

On the other hand, I think it is reasonable to believe that Mr. Houze knew enough from his client that he made the suggestion that she not fight the RO which mentioned a) the reason to believe that TH tried to hire someone to murder Kaine and b) the possible reason to believe that TH had something to do with Kaine's son being missing. I don't think this was just an issue of Mr. Houze, who is thought to be quite skilled, would just roll over if he felt his client had given him the information he needed to handle the matter in short order. On the contrary...

Hi Wrinkles, Nice to virtually meet you too. Personally, I think it's quite likely that Mr. Houze's own investigators have discovered some .... interesting information of their own.And not about his client. As an example, if I was on a hypothetical jury, and the defence lawyer introduced evidence that a missing child's uncle was a RSO, that would make me sit up, sharpen my pencil, and start taking notes. I don't think we will probably ever know what has been investigated ,or found,as at this point I don't believe this will ever come to trial. But that's just MO...

All JMO

 

[Wrinkles]

Hello LizB,

You wrote:
>>As an example, if I was on a hypothetical jury, and the defence lawyer introduced evidence that a missing child's uncle was a RSO, that would make me sit up, sharpen my pencil, and start taking notes.<<

OHHHH absolutely, I would be taking notes too. I would absolutely want to know where this person was the day Kyron disappeared, even as I would want to know where the step mother was. I would have to quickly line out the RSO if evidence that could possibly point to them was outweighed by things like a 90 minute drive "who knows where," a Murder for Hire pointed at the child's father, a "sending away" of their own blood related older son several months before (smacks to me of getting a possibly observant person OR one that could be potentially harmed by a MFH gone awry off of the playing field), etc.

I'm not sure whether this will ever come to trial either, but I'm not sure that it shouldn't except for that a perp covered their exits.

 

[craftybatchy]

Many of you will remember the cloud of suspicion hanging over the mother of Victoria Stafford . Tara McDonald *failed* two questions asked during a polygraph exam. Much like TH, TM was vilified at the hands of MSM for poor choices and an (at times) questionable lifestyle. Although the final chapter of that tragedy has yet to be written, TM was eventually eliminated as a suspect and two accused remain in custody.

Point being, poor choices and questionable decisions do not necessarily a criminal make. History has proven this time and time again. Sadly, it appears to be repeating itself.