Lies point us to the truth #2

[UKGuy]

Wrong. It is not any RDI. It is only John and/or Patsy. Burke, due to his age, cannot be apprehended, prosecuted, convicted, and punished.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/Media/Opinion_Docs/JRamsey Grand Jury.pdf

icedtea4me,
Thanks for the clarification, any idea why PR or JR would not have had Murder In The First Degree Counts leveled at them?

.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
We could probably wrap it all up in those dark fuzzy blue fibers found on JB clothing, duct tape and crime scene.

Rain on my Parade,
You reckon, you must tell us more, along with your sources?

 

[UKGuy]

In order words PR and/ or JR killed her. We just don't know who did what.

danablue1,
There was enough forensic evidence left at the crime-scene, to hit PR with a Murder In The First Degree True Bill Count, as her sweater fibers are embedded into the knotting of the ligature.

Her fibers were also left in the Paint-Tote, as she put the unused piece of paintbrush back!

The housekeeper LHP told BPD when she put the paint-tote down in the basement, i.e. prior to JonBenet's death!

You could have a nasty pedophile JDI, with Patsy assisting, except why would she do that when she knows JR is toast if she speaks out?

.

 

[danablue1]

danablue1,
There was enough forensic evidence left at the crime-scene, to hit PR with a Murder In The First Degree True Bill Count, as her sweater fibers are embedded into the knotting of the ligature.

Her fibers were also left in the Paint-Tote, as she put the unused piece of paintbrush back!

The housekeeper LHP told BPD when she put the paint-tote down in the basement, i.e. prior to JonBenet's death!

You could have a nasty pedophile JDI, with Patsy assisting, except why would she do that when she knows JR is toast if she speaks out?


Ok so you are saying JR knowingly put JBR in danger because of PR and JR then assisted in the coverup of JBR's murder committed by PR Why?

 

[danablue1]

Sorry it got on your post for some reason

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Wrong. It is not any RDI. It is only John and/or Patsy. Burke, due to his age, cannot be apprehended, prosecuted, convicted, and punished.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/Media/Opinion_Docs/JRamsey Grand Jury.pdf

icedtea4me,

Apparently, neither can JR or PR be apprehended, prosecuted, convicted, and punished. Exonerated.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,
You reckon, you must tell us more, along with your sources?

UKGuy,

Detective Patterson’s interview with Burke Ramsey on December 26, 1996, that Burke wore blue fuzzy pajamas on Christmas night.

Patterson: Ok and what happened when you got home?

Burke: Ah….we…. got our pj’s on and went to bed

Patterson: Ok

Burke: So

Patterson: What kind of pj’s do you have on?

Burke: Ah….kind of fuzzy ones like kind of blue and fuzzy

"All I'm saying is that those fibers tell a little--tell a story."- Lou Smit

By KEVIN KAUFMAN Camera Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 30, 1997
Dark blue fibers were located on the back of the right shoulder of the shirt; hairs and other trace evidence were located on her shirt.


PMPT, Schiller
Continuing with the external examination, Meyer noticed-and Detective Arndt also observed-a number of dark fibers and hairs on the outside of JonBenét’s nightshirt.

Meyer stated during his examination of the girl's vaginal and pubic areas that he observed numerous traces of dark fiber. That information was not included in Meyer's autopsy report. The Camera first reported on July 18 that investigators found navy blue pillings, or fuzzy balls, from cloth on the girl's lower body and that some police believed the pillings may have been from a dark-colored robe of John Ramsey's found on the floor of his home office.

Mark Beckner's November 26, 2001 deposition
Chief Beckner: Those things, I would expect that.
Wood: Because there were blue fibers found on the crime scene?
Chief Beckner: Yes.
Wood: But you would want to know, it would seem, if he's under suspicion and he submits material to you, in this case hypothetically blue cotton, you would expect it to be analyzed because there were blue cotton fibers found on the crime scene, true?
Mr. Miller: Objection. Asked and answered.
Wood: Am I right?
Mr. Miller: You can answer it again.
Chief Beckner: Yes.
Wood: Okay. To your knowledge, have those blue fibers at the crime scene ever been sourced?
Mr. Miller: Wait a minute. What is the question?
Wood: To his knowledge, have the blue fibers found at the crime scene ever been sourced.
Chief Beckner: There are a lot of reports around on fiber evidence. To the best of my recollection, no.

BPD 1998 Patsy Interview Excerpt
15 TRIP DEMUTH: What about 384?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible). Something
17 hanging over the wall up there by the laundry to dry.
18 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you recognize what they are?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: It looks like pajamas or
20 something. It looks like Burke's pajamas.
21 TRIP DEMUTH: May be tights.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: You mean leggings or
23 something?
24 TRIP DEMUTH: Right.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Can't tell whether they are
0463
1 adult or children.
2 TRIP DEMUTH: So you can't tell from that
3 photo what they are?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

Kolar's remarks about Burke's pajamas:
Foreign Faction, Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet, James Kolar, pages 370 - 371
There were other police reports in the files that documented what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenét’s bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke.

 

[danablue1]

UKGuy,

View attachment 334310


Detective Patterson’s interview with Burke Ramsey on December 26, 1996, that Burke wore blue fuzzy pajamas on Christmas night.

Patterson: Ok and what happened when you got home?

Burke: Ah….we…. got our pj’s on and went to bed

Patterson: Ok

Burke: So

Patterson: What kind of pj’s do you have on?

Burke: Ah….kind of fuzzy ones like kind of blue and fuzzy

"All I'm saying is that those fibers tell a little--tell a story."- Lou Smit

By KEVIN KAUFMAN Camera Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 30, 1997
Dark blue fibers were located on the back of the right shoulder of the shirt; hairs and other trace evidence were located on her shirt.


PMPT, Schiller
Continuing with the external examination, Meyer noticed-and Detective Arndt also observed-a number of dark fibers and hairs on the outside of JonBenét’s nightshirt.

Meyer stated during his examination of the girl's vaginal and pubic areas that he observed numerous traces of dark fiber. That information was not included in Meyer's autopsy report. The Camera first reported on July 18 that investigators found navy blue pillings, or fuzzy balls, from cloth on the girl's lower body and that some police believed the pillings may have been from a dark-colored robe of John Ramsey's found on the floor of his home office.

Mark Beckner's November 26, 2001 deposition
Chief Beckner: Those things, I would expect that.
Wood: Because there were blue fibers found on the crime scene?
Chief Beckner: Yes.
Wood: But you would want to know, it would seem, if he's under suspicion and he submits material to you, in this case hypothetically blue cotton, you would expect it to be analyzed because there were blue cotton fibers found on the crime scene, true?
Mr. Miller: Objection. Asked and answered.
Wood: Am I right?
Mr. Miller: You can answer it again.
Chief Beckner: Yes.
Wood: Okay. To your knowledge, have those blue fibers at the crime scene ever been sourced?
Mr. Miller: Wait a minute. What is the question?
Wood: To his knowledge, have the blue fibers found at the crime scene ever been sourced.
Chief Beckner: There are a lot of reports around on fiber evidence. To the best of my recollection, no.

BPD 1998 Patsy Interview Excerpt
15 TRIP DEMUTH: What about 384?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible). Something
17 hanging over the wall up there by the laundry to dry.
18 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you recognize what they are?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: It looks like pajamas or
20 something. It looks like Burke's pajamas.
21 TRIP DEMUTH: May be tights.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: You mean leggings or
23 something?
24 TRIP DEMUTH: Right.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Can't tell whether they are
0463
1 adult or children.
2 TRIP DEMUTH: So you can't tell from that
3 photo what they are?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

Kolar's remarks about Burke's pajamas:
Foreign Faction, Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet, James Kolar, pages 370 - 371
There were other police reports in the files that documented what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenét’s bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke.

Why weren't the fibers tested as to their origin. Were they blue or navy blue. BR's pajamas look bright blue. JR had a navy blue robe. I thought PR had on a red sweater. So confusing.

 

[danablue1]

danablue1,
There was enough forensic evidence left at the crime-scene, to hit PR with a Murder In The First Degree True Bill Count, as her sweater fibers are embedded into the knotting of the ligature.
Were they confirmed to be from PR?

Her fibers were also left in the Paint-Tote, as she put the unused piece of paintbrush back!

The housekeeper LHP told BPD when she put the paint-tote down in the basement, i.e. prior to JonBenet's death!

You could have a nasty pedophile JDI, with Patsy assisting, except why would she do that when she knows JR is toast if she speaks out?

.

 

[danablue1]

Were they confirmed to be PR's

 

[UKGuy]

Were they confirmed to be PR's

danablue1,

For your delectation:
Foreign Faction by James Kolar, Excerpt

It would take a year before the black and red Essentials brand
jacket Patsy was photographed wearing was finally delivered to
them. It was frustrating. The clothing articles seemed to trickle
into their office a piece or two at a time. In one instance, a sweater
– that Patsy was said to be wearing under the jacket – was
delivered that looked like it had just come off the shelf of a retail
clothing store. The fold marks were crisp and clearly present,
suggesting it had never been worn.

Trujillo advised me that lab technicians had identified eight
different types of fibers on the sticky side of the duct tape used to
cover JonBenét’s mouth. They included red acrylic, gray acrylic,
and red polyester fibers that were subsequently determined by
laboratory examination to be microscopically and chemically
consistent to each other, as well as to fibers taken from Patsy
Ramsey’s Essentials jacket.

Further, fibers from this jacket were also matched to trace
fibers collected from the wrist ligature, neck ligature, and
vacuumed evidence from the paint tray and Wine Cellar floor.

Some intruder theorists thought that the transfer of Patsy’s
jacket fibers to the duct tape may have taken place after John had
removed it from JonBenét’s face, and placed it on the white
blanket in the cellar. They believed it possible that prior contact
taking place between the blanket and jacket could account for the
transfer of these fibers to the tape.

Lab technicians had conducted experiments with the same
brand of duct tape, by attempting to lift trace fibers from the
blanket recovered in the Wine Cellar. Direct contact was made in
different quadrants of the blanket. There was some minimal
transfer of jacket fibers made to the tape during this exercise, but
Trujillo told me lab technicians didn’t think that this type of
transfer accounted for the number of jacket fibers that had been
found on the sticky side of the tape. It was thought that direct
contact between the jacket and tape was more likely the reason for
the quantity of fibers found on this piece of evidence.

BPD investigators looked to the other jacket fibers found in
the Wine Cellar, in the paint tray, and on the cord used to
bind JonBenét as physical evidence that linked Patsy with the
probable location of her daughter’s death – the basement hallway
and Wine Cellar.

The paint tray was reported to have been moved to the
basement about a month prior to the kidnapping, and investigators
doubted that Patsy would have been working on art projects
while wearing the dress jacket. The collection of jacket fibers from
all of these different locations raised strong suspicions about her
involvement in the crime.

Investigators also learned that fibers collected from the
interior lining of the Essentials jacket did not match control samples
from the sweater that had been provided to police by Ramsey
attorneys. Investigators thought that this suggested she had been
wearing some other article of clothing beneath the jacket.

BBM: is red flag evidence as they should not be present, period.

In court attorneys could argue the toss about fiber transfer, etc, yet it is all academic as the fibers in the ligature match those from PR's sweater.

Meaning any intruder/kidapper had to, more or less, be wearing the same sweater as PR on the SAME DAY!

.

 

[danablue1]

danablue1,

For your delectation:
Foreign Faction by James Kolar, Excerpt

BBM: is red flag evidence as they should not be present, period.

In court attorneys could argue the toss about fiber transfer, etc, yet it is all academic as the fibers in the ligature match those from PR's sweater.

Meaning any intruder/kidapper had to, more or less, be wearing the same sweater as PR on the SAME DAY!

.

Greatly appreciated! You're an asset to the forum.

 

[anonymiss]

Anonymiss,
Just because they didn’t keep him close doesn’t mean he wasn’t guilty.



BR was taken to the Whites around 7 a.m. on the 26th. JR carried JB upstairs around 1 p.m.

Suggested reads are Inside the Murder Investigation by Steve Thomas and Foreign Faction: who really killed Jonbenet by James Kolar.



BR was heard on the 911 call after PR supposedly hung up the phone in reference to “What did you find”. Like I said about BR denial: perhaps his mind has been erased.

Perhaps your local library has some books you can read on the case.

Yes, I'm a little rusty on some of the details of the case to be posting here, I haven't used Websleuths much over the last several years, but I enjoy it and like reading everyone's comments.

I just wanted to comment on UK Guy's statement regarding BR not asking LE any questions that morning. but I remember reading BR asked an officer if the family was still going to Charlevoix and the officer said he didn't know.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,

View attachment 334310


Detective Patterson’s interview with Burke Ramsey on December 26, 1996, that Burke wore blue fuzzy pajamas on Christmas night.

Patterson: Ok and what happened when you got home?

Burke: Ah….we…. got our pj’s on and went to bed

Patterson: Ok

Burke: So

Patterson: What kind of pj’s do you have on?

Burke: Ah….kind of fuzzy ones like kind of blue and fuzzy

"All I'm saying is that those fibers tell a little--tell a story."- Lou Smit

By KEVIN KAUFMAN Camera Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 30, 1997
Dark blue fibers were located on the back of the right shoulder of the shirt; hairs and other trace evidence were located on her shirt.


PMPT, Schiller
Continuing with the external examination, Meyer noticed-and Detective Arndt also observed-a number of dark fibers and hairs on the outside of JonBenét’s nightshirt.

Meyer stated during his examination of the girl's vaginal and pubic areas that he observed numerous traces of dark fiber. That information was not included in Meyer's autopsy report. The Camera first reported on July 18 that investigators found navy blue pillings, or fuzzy balls, from cloth on the girl's lower body and that some police believed the pillings may have been from a dark-colored robe of John Ramsey's found on the floor of his home office.

Mark Beckner's November 26, 2001 deposition
Chief Beckner: Those things, I would expect that.
Wood: Because there were blue fibers found on the crime scene?
Chief Beckner: Yes.
Wood: But you would want to know, it would seem, if he's under suspicion and he submits material to you, in this case hypothetically blue cotton, you would expect it to be analyzed because there were blue cotton fibers found on the crime scene, true?
Mr. Miller: Objection. Asked and answered.
Wood: Am I right?
Mr. Miller: You can answer it again.
Chief Beckner: Yes.
Wood: Okay. To your knowledge, have those blue fibers at the crime scene ever been sourced?
Mr. Miller: Wait a minute. What is the question?
Wood: To his knowledge, have the blue fibers found at the crime scene ever been sourced.
Chief Beckner: There are a lot of reports around on fiber evidence. To the best of my recollection, no.

BPD 1998 Patsy Interview Excerpt
15 TRIP DEMUTH: What about 384?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible). Something
17 hanging over the wall up there by the laundry to dry.
18 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you recognize what they are?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: It looks like pajamas or
20 something. It looks like Burke's pajamas.
21 TRIP DEMUTH: May be tights.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: You mean leggings or
23 something?
24 TRIP DEMUTH: Right.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Can't tell whether they are
0463
1 adult or children.
2 TRIP DEMUTH: So you can't tell from that
3 photo what they are?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

Kolar's remarks about Burke's pajamas:
Foreign Faction, Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet, James Kolar, pages 370 - 371
There were other police reports in the files that documented what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenét’s bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke.

Rain on my Parade,
BINGO!

BPD 1998 Patsy Interview Excerpt
15 TRIP DEMUTH: What about 384?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible). Something
17 hanging over the wall up there by the laundry to dry.
18 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you recognize what they are?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: It looks like pajamas or
20 something. It looks like Burke's pajamas.
21 TRIP DEMUTH: May be tights.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: You mean leggings or
23 something?
24 TRIP DEMUTH: Right.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Can't tell whether they are
0463
1 adult or children.
2 TRIP DEMUTH: So you can't tell from that
3 photo what they are?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

Only the color matters here. If BPD have them in custody they know whether they are blue and/or if the top has a specific logo.

IMO this was BPD teasing Patsy about this topic.

Kolar's remarks about Burke's pajamas:
Foreign Faction, Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet, James Kolar, pages 370 - 371
There were other police reports in the files that documented what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenét’s bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke.

So what color were they? Note: nobody is saying, not even Kolar, a red flag!

This is what Kolar could not expand upon as it links BR directly with JonBenet's death.

This topic is a good example of buried evidence in this case, i.e. note how the fibers were referenced to JR's robe, so prompting numerous JDI theories, could be the Ramsey's and BPD were content with this, as BR could never legally have a finger pointed at him.

Also fiber analysis would quickly decide the issue, was this undertaken, think on Kolar's remarks, at length on the status of Patsy's fibers?


So as I've alluded to before the person who knows is Fleet White, why: because he made Burke Ramsey's bed and tidied up his room, so he will have seen the COLOR of pajamas in Burke's bedroom, or since they were ABSENT and possibly lying fecally stained on JonBenet's bedroom floor?

Also if the Ramsey's version of events is kosher then the status of BR's pajamas should not matter as JR put him to bed using the flashlight and he slept through everything until the 911 call episode?

BTW: excellent sleuthing for linking the dark blue fibers attributed to JR as more than likely belonging to Burke: Ah….kind of fuzzy ones like kind of blue and fuzzy

Meaning the fibers found on JonBenet's genital region might have originated from Burke Ramsey's Blue and Fuzzy pajamas?

Is all that not a Smoking Gun?

.

 

[danablue1]

Rain on my Parade,
BINGO!


Only the color matters here. If BPD have them in custody they know whether they are blue and/or if the top has a specific logo.

IMO this was BPD teasing Patsy about this topic.



So what color were they? Note: nobody is saying, not even Kolar, a red flag!

This is what Kolar could not expand upon as it links BR directly with JonBenet's death.

This topic is a good example of buried evidence in this case, i.e. note how the fibers were referenced to JR's robe, so prompting numerous JDI theories, could be the Ramsey's and BPD were content with this, as BR could never legally have a finger pointed at him.

Also fiber analysis would quickly decide the issue, was this undertaken, think on Kolar's remarks, at length on the status of Patsy's fibers?


So as I've alluded to before the person who knows is Fleet White, why: because he made Burke Ramsey's bed and tidied up his room, so he will have seen the COLOR of pajamas in Burke's bedroom, or since they were ABSENT and possibly lying fecally stained on JonBenet's bedroom floor?

Also if the Ramsey's version of events is kosher then the status of BR's pajamas should not matter as JR put him to bed using the flashlight and he slept through everything until the 911 call episode?

BTW: excellent sleuthing for linking the dark blue fibers attributed to JR as more than likely belonging to Burke: Ah….kind of fuzzy ones like kind of blue and fuzzy

Meaning the fibers found on JonBenet's genital region might have originated from Burke Ramsey's Blue and Fuzzy pajamas?

Is all that not a Smoking Gun?

.

Blue and fuzzy could also come from a sweater just saying

 

[danablue1]

Blue and fuzzy could also come from a sweater just saying

Besides that photo was taken Christmas morning. Who said he wore the same ones that night

 

[claire_parker]

Were all blue fibers the same. 1- JBR genital area. 2- PR sweater fibers on ligature and broken paint brush put back in the paint box. 3- Fibers on JBR's clothing

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Besides that photo was taken Christmas morning. Who said he wore the same ones that night

danablue1,

BR said it.

Detective Patterson’s interview with Burke Ramsey on December 26, 1996, that Burke wore blue fuzzy pajamas on Christmas night.

Patterson: Ok and what happened when you got home?
Burke: Ah….we…. got our pj’s on and went to bed
Patterson: Ok
Burke: So
Patterson: What kind of pj’s do you have on?
Burke: Ah….kind of fuzzy ones like kind of blue and fuzzy

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Why weren't the fibers tested as to their origin. Were they blue or navy blue. BR's pajamas look bright blue. JR had a navy blue robe. I thought PR had on a red sweater. So confusing.

danablue1,

I would say that BR pajamas look dark blue; not baby blue. They were referred to by LE as dark blue. Which could include JR robe or BR pajama bottoms. Why would BPD not divulge this information?

JR was said to be very neat and organized with his clothing; unlike the rest of the family. IMO JR left that robe on the floor to draw attention away from BR. Just as PR left behind her fiber evidence in the ligature, paint tray, blanket, duck tape, white blanket. To mislead, wouldn’t the true bills make sense in this instance?

 

[Janis0608]

Are you saying the person the R’s failed to protect JBR from is BR and this is the person she should have never been allowed to be alone with?