Lies point us to the truth

[GoBuckeyes]

Rain on my Parade,
From memory its from comments and remarks by BPD investigators regarding the status of the current dna lab analysis.

They have only tested particular areas of JonBenet's underwear and her longjohns. Only the results that suited the then current agenda were released.

BPD have not stated that John or Burke Ramsey's touch-dna was not found on JonBenet's clothing, due to environmental transfer in the house they expect it to be present, so implicitly they do not rate it as forensic evidence.

So the issue is was John or Burke Ramsey's touch-dna found on the inside of JonBenet's underwear or under the waistband of the longjohns?

Everyone expects it to be present, but the big question where, what is the location?

Its similar to what was the color of Burke Ramsey's pajamas that he wore to bed Christmas Night?

The Ramsey's say they cannot remember and no BPD investigator has made the color public, or even mentioned if they have them stored away in a safe evidence cage?

Although I foucus on JR and BR, similar questions apply to Patsy, but I'm biased as I think part of the motive may have been sexual?

.

Does anyone think they are telling the truth about not being able to remember the color of the pajamas? I'm definitely no expert, and I suppose it's possible that trauma might cause some people's memory to falter. But it seems peculiar to me-their inability to recall that detail.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

UKGuy,
But what does Bode say about this?
On the exterior top left half of long johns “contains a mixture of at least two individuals including the victim and at least one male contributor.” It excludes John, Melinda and John Andrew Ramsey. “The profiles associated with Burke Ramsey and Patricia Ramsey cannot be included or excluded from the mixture DNA profiles.”




Are you referring to this in reference to your question?
3. The interior top right half of the long johns “was deemed unsuitable for any further comparison purposes.”

4. The interior top left half of the long johns “contains a mixture of at least three individuals including the victim and at least one male contributor.”…deemed unsuitable for any further comparison purposes.”

Or, is there further updated touch dna test results that you are referring to?

I believe the truth is buried beneath a mountain of paperwork. The R’s have been exonerated and BR was not nor will ever be considered a suspect in this case.



Yes, the color blue. He was there that night doing nasty deeds. He rained all over JB’s parade.

I don't have the book. Please, can someone give me just the one sentence or a reference so I can read up on it? TIA

 

[GoBuckeyes]

MaryNo,
Please read the entire post. It will give you your answer.
Thanks.

Do you have a copy of the last photo? TIA

 

[GoBuckeyes]

The police weren’t the only ones not concerned with a killer running around. BR was never scared even though his sister had been viciously murdered in their home.

Now that you mention it, that's very telling IMOO.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

The same clothes the next day for PR really bothers me. I don't consider myself too vain; I'll go out with a messy bun and/or no makeup here and there and even when my makeup and hair is done, it's low maintenance and somewhat minimal. That being said, if I'm traveling - especially early in the morning - I know what I'll be wearing the day of travel. In packing, I set aside or at least mentally note what I'll be wearing on travel day(s). Furthermore, I don't wear anything twice in a row aside from jeans.

It baffles me that a woman as put together and focused on her appearance would wear the same clothing two days in a row. She had plenty of money to afford more than one favorite/nice/festive/etc outfit and she sure strikes me as the type to plan outfits in advance and also strikes me as the type that wouldn't risk being seen in the same outfit two days in a row. I just don't see why she would opt for the same outfit two days in a row. It seems very out of character in my opinion.

Very much agree!

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I will state this again, the R’s probably called several people during Christmas night or early the next morning to ask how to best proceed. Their phone records were never turned over for the month of December 1996. You can bet that wouldn’t be allowed for the average Joe!

Do you mean, to this very day LE has not examined phone records for December? Why weren't they subpoenaed? WOW!!!!!!

 

[GoBuckeyes]

IF Burke was sexually abusing/inappropriate with JBR. What would the motive for that be? Surely not sexual at his age?

I don't have an answer for your question. But I was wondering, going with Patsy's mother's unemotional comment (iirc) that all children experience some abuse, is there any evidence that BR had been abused in any manner?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

1. Watch this video.

Would you say that it is impossible for someone to accidentally get hit in the face during a golf swing, yes or no?

2. If the accident happened prior to 6 Aug 1993, then JonBenet would've been 2.6 years of age.

Since you asked the question, I'll answer from experience. When I was 7 or 8, my cousin (who was my age) and I were playing over the Christmas break with my Granddad's golf clubs. I adored my cousin, and hand-on-the-Bible, I did not see him getting anywhere near me. I very accidentally hit him right above the bridge of the nose. Fortunately, neither eye was damaged and the skull wasn't fractured, and after numerous stitches he did heal fine without any lasting damage. However, to this day I get sick to my stomach everytime I touch a 9 iron. (Needless to say, I don't golf much.) And that day I was still so upset even after he returned from the ER hours later that I had to be sedated with Valium. I was an absolute wreck. So, yes, someone can accidentally hit someone with a golf swing, but I am alarmed that BR hit JBR in anger with what could be a deadly weapon, and that's no joke. I did not know about this incident, and I see him in a completely different light. That level of anger is indicative of someone willing and able to inflict ongoing abuse on his target(s). What were they thinking even having their bedrooms on the same floor, let alone side-by-side?!

 

[UKGuy]

I don't have the book. Please, can someone give me just the one sentence or a reference so I can read up on it? TIA

GoBuckeyes,
On the DNA this is a comprehensive summary:
JonBenet Ramsey Case Encyclopedia / DNA Evidence
Put it in your favorites for reference.

On the book, available at your local library or 2nd hand for cents on ebay
Foreign Faction, Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet, James Kolar, pages 370 - 371

There were other police reports in the files that documented what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenét’s bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke.

Additionally, a box of candy located in her bedroom had also been observed to be smeared with feces. Both of these discoveries had been made during the processing of the crime scene during the execution of search warrants following the discovery of JonBenét’s body.

I wondered whether fecal material observed in pajamas thought to belong to Burke, and smeared on the box of candy in his sister’s bedroom, could have been related to the symptoms of scatological behavior associated with SBP. I also contemplated the reasons why a box of JonBenét’s candy would have been smeared with human excrement.

As noted previously, Linda Hoffman-Pugh had also mentioned finding fecal material in JonBenét’s bed sheets. It raised the question as to who may have been responsible for the deposit of that material in her bed – had it been JonBenét or was it Burke?

On the pajamas

This is Burke Ramsey with JonBenet Christmas morning opening gifts. Look at the color of Burke Ramsey's pajama bottoms, i.e. they are Blue.

Now the unanswered question is what was the color of the Fecally Stained pajama bottoms left lying on JonBenet's bedroom floor?

I reckon if they were blue then we are half way to linking Burke Ramsey with JonBenet's bedroom.

Kolar states he garnered this information by reading through the CSI's written reports, so was the color mentioned if not, can we identify the CSI's to see if they can remember the color, its a long shot, but worth a try?

Patently there were crime-scene photos taken in JonBenet's bedroom so I'm assuming the pajama bottoms will be visible on these photographs, i.e. we just need the color.

Its not a smoking gun but it more or less fills in the missing gap in any BDI theory. i.e. although its circumstantial, I reckon its enough to break the case!

.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Jealousy could have gotten the best of Burke, but not over a bicycle. PR purchased two kids bikes for Christmas that year. BR bike seemed to have disappeared Christmas night. BR was known for flying off the handle.

Also, this isn't a family with normal financial constraints. Worst case, he whines and they pick him up the bike of his choosing before the flight on the 26th. Whatever sparked his jealousy began years before that Christmas, IMOO.

 

[UKGuy]

Also, this isn't a family with normal financial constraints. Worst case, he whines and they pick him up the bike of his choosing before the flight on the 26th. Whatever sparked his jealousy began years before that Christmas, IMOO.

GoBuckeyes,
Patsy purchased the new bicycles from University Bicycles downtown Boulder before Christmas Day.

.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

On BR and perhaps the real reason he and JB see a therapist:
Elimination disorders:
Elimination disorders - children, causes, effects, adults, drug, medication, effect, Definition
Oppositional Defiant Disorder:
Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD) in Children

What is your opinion as to which child(ren) have what disorder(s)? TIA

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Peter Boyles Radio Show - July 21, 1998
Linda Wilcox Interview

Random clips from the housekeeper:

LINDA WILCOX: Gut feeling more than anything. But even now, more than then, I would (something) on everything I have that a stranger did not kill JonBenet. The lay of the house doesn't...it would be very difficult. Possibly, there are people who are professional. But then they would have done a professional job. Lots of little things contribute to my belief. Someone who didn't know that house, really well, couldn't have done what they done (sic) without being noticed. It's not possible. It is physically impossible. You had to know little things. Like for example, you walk in the room and hit the switch, the light doesn't come on. See, cause when the room was redone, they put in a ceiling fan, one of the metal ones, without a light kit on it. The only light in her room was the lamp between the two beds. You have to physically walk over and turn it on. It isn't run by the switch. The switch was meant to run the overhead ceiling light which was removed to install the ceiling fan.

Like, JonBenet, for example. She got no affection at all when she was little except maybe from their nanny. Until she started to perform or produce, she was basically ignored. At one point, John was complaining because he had to get her dressed one morning because Suzanne had been out of town. He couldn't find any clothes that matched. The reason was, she was wearing cast-offs from Burke because she didn't have any clothes of her own.

PETER BOYLES: We look at so many photos and videos of this child wearing adult, woman sexy costumes, you know something about some Halloween costumes.

LINDA WILCOX: This particular Halloween costume, it was the Halloween, it would have been 1994 probably. Yeah, the Halloween of '94. And she had this, it was actually kind of cute, it was this little witches costume but it wasn't your standard, you know, black dress, pointy hat, it had orange criss-cross striping and it had a little cape. You know most little kids would say, you know, she said I'm gonna be a witch for halloween but I'm not going to be a bad witch. I'm going to be a good, sexy witch. And this is from the voice of a 4-year-old.

PETER BOYLES: She said, a good, sexy witch at 4?

LINDA WILCOX: It was a witch costume. Most kids would have just said, you know, I'm not a bad witch, I'm a good witch. But her mom is there and then Patsy walked in the room and said, "Yeah, she's gonna be a sexy witch."

This causes me to wonder who all in that household was abusing JBR and in how many different ways. That is so inappropriate. It's well beyond inappropriate. That poor baby!

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
But what does Bode say about this?
On the exterior top left half of long johns “contains a mixture of at least two individuals including the victim and at least one male contributor.” It excludes John, Melinda and John Andrew Ramsey. “The profiles associated with Burke Ramsey and Patricia Ramsey cannot be included or excluded from the mixture DNA profiles.”




Are you referring to this in reference to your question?
3. The interior top right half of the long johns “was deemed unsuitable for any further comparison purposes.”

4. The interior top left half of the long johns “contains a mixture of at least three individuals including the victim and at least one male contributor.”…deemed unsuitable for any further comparison purposes.”

Or, is there further updated touch dna test results that you are referring to?

I believe the truth is buried beneath a mountain of paperwork. The R’s have been exonerated and BR was not nor will ever be considered a suspect in this case.



Yes, the color blue. He was there that night doing nasty deeds. He rained all over JB’s parade.

Rain on my Parade,

Or, is there further updated touch dna test results that you are referring to?

No, we await the latest test results to arrive, long wait so far.

The Bode results, from memory, all relate to the samples selectively taken from the various garments.

That John or Burke Ramsey's touch dna might be deposited on say, the interior of the Bloomingdale's size-12's has not been ruled out, i.e. similarly for the longjohns, deposits on the exterior would not be as significant, not for production in court at least.

So the Bode results are not the full story alike other aspects of the case there is more to come.

I suspect BR's touch dna positive result on JonBenet's bloodstained pink barbie nightgown slipped out?

The latter along with his pajamas being identified as the pair left on JonBenet's bedroom floor, I reckon seals the case as BDI?

.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

UKGuy,
That would be the top not the pants:
View attachment 256549

0254-01) THOMAS HANEY: Okay. Anything else on the bed? PATSY RAMSEY: Well, this looks like a little -- the little pot holder square she was making. This multi-colored thing here. This black thing I can't (INAUDIBLE). Oh, that's sort of looks like it might be the little velvet dress (INAUDIBLE). Little silver snaps. TRIP DeMUTH: When did she last wear that? PATSY RAMSEY: She wore that to the Whites on the 25th. - (0255-21) THOMAS HANEY: Well, it was documented also on video and I believe there is a description of what's in each room.

Clothing Found at the Scene
In the wine cellar: Nightgown

In JonBenet's bedroom: The shoes, pants, and vest she had worn to the Whites' party. The red turtleneck Patsy originally claimed JonBenet wore to bed. JonBenet's pajama shirt from the previous night (but no PJ pants). Feces-stained gray pants on the floor of JonBenet's bathroom.

• In the wine cellar: Nightgown
  
  
  
• 
  Shoes and pants worn to the Whites' party
  
  
  
• 
  Velvet vest worn to the Whites' party
  
  
  
• 
  Red turtleneck
  
  
• 
  Feces-stained pants

In consideration of your theories:
1. PR could have lost it due to a bedwetting incident but what made this night different from every other night? Because they were getting up early?
2. We know that BR and JB were caught playing doctor and told LHP to go away. PR knew about this. So who was JB going to tell?

What was the motive? I saw anger got the best of someone.
Perhaps BR lost in a fit of anger with JB. How do we explain these comment’s otherwise:
JR to BR: “We’re not speaking to you”. PR to BR: “What did you do”? BR reply’s: “What DID you find”?

How long before JBR's murder did that occur? That poor child. How far apart in age were they? I apologize. I used to know these facts well, but time and so many cases...TIA

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I believe the CBS suit was like $750 million. The $150 million suit was against someone else.

Children often do inappropriate things just based on their age, alone, and smiling at inappropriate times sometimes would fall in that category!

He was on the verge of being 10. In my opinion only, that's much past any age at which smiling at the funeral for your recently murdered little sister would be appropriate. Again, JMOO.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Sorry, but I don’t consider someone who came on the scene 9 years AFTER THE FACT , as a
lead investigator of anything! You would have to consider him more of a cold case reviewer!

Again, SS saw nothing suspicious about the conversation between the boys, unfortunately, that came about from people with too much idle time on their hands and gossip on their brains!

I find it alarming and distressing that he's having that conversation at all within two days of the murder of his sister. What is he even doing at his friend's house? Why isn't he with his parents? Isn't he concerned about a crazy murderer who gained access to the bedroom right beside his?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Rain on my Parade,
I reckon he was play-acting all the way through, either at his parents request or/and his own decision?

Consider the news coverage and Burke is blase about it all, and no questions, other than What did you find?

Is that a sociopathic trait, a feature of being somewhere on the autistic spectrum, or just because his parents told him what to say?

.

Sociopathic, imoo, in my very amateur opinion only.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Patsy's quite clear in Death of Innocence: " Slowly the normal routine for an early morning flight comes into focus. Take a shower, get dressed, get going. I swing out of bed and abruptly remember that my shower is still broken."

In her interview she said, iirc, that she spent 25 minutes putting her makeup on. Clearly she wasn't in a huge hurry; she had time to go down one flight of stairs to any one of three showers, especially since showering in the morning was her normal routine for an early morning flight.

It's not believable. Was her shower even broken? More likely she was explaining why her shower stall was dry. (No investigator was going to turn it on because that would interfere with evidence, but they probably checked to see if it was wet.) Her shower was dry because she was up all night murdering someone and covering it up.

25 minutes for makeup!? She wasn't in any hurry at all.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

My entire post was based on whether or not Burke had such a vindictive nature as to intentionally try to fatally harm his sister and I don’t believe that he did!

How do you interpret the conversation to 911 after they think the call is disconnected?