Lion Air Flight JT610 plane crashes in Indonesia, 29 Oct 2018 *lawyer Tom Girardi charged in 2023 with defrauding victims*

[Snoods]

The sheer horror of it...

The Lion Air jet that crashed off Indonesia on Monday nosed downward so abruptly that it may have hit speeds of 1,000kmh (621 mph) or more before slamming into the sea, according to three experts who made calculations based on preliminary flight-tracking data.

The Boeing 737 Max 8 dove with little or no turns and its nose was pointed about 45 degrees below the horizon shortly before the impact, an unusually steep dive for an airliner, according to the analysis of data provided by flight-tracking company FlightRadar24.

Lion Air jet's final plunge may have reached 1,000kmh

 

[Snoods]

The youngest victim, 15 month old Kyara Aurine Daniendra Giwitri pictured with her mother Witi Seriani and father Rizal Gilang Perkasa Sanusi Putra, were all on board.

Family tell of heartbreak over youngest victim of Indonesia plane crash

 

[Roselvr]

I hope the ones suspended are still required to participate in the investigation. If Lion just fired the ones who know what was done wrong to crash the plane in order to save the company, that is just dead wrong.

Agree

JMO
This is the sort of thing where I dont mind if government steps in and forces all airlines that fly in US to require an onboard device that can transmit accurate GPS location data to an external source.

They can pass some sort of legislation to require airlines to do it and give them 5 years to have every plane rigged up.

I dont think the cost of doing something like this is as bad as the airlines make it seem. Afterall we already have emergency beacon devices that can be bought or rented out for hikers that can do similarly.

SPOT Personal Tracker

They can push one button and get an emergency signal sent out by satellite that tells their GPS location.

Its one of the few sorts of things where I dont mind if government steps in and forces airlines to do it. Give them a deadline and make it happen.

It's not like there are a lot of crashes but I agree, something needs to be done to bring it into this century. It's ridiculous that they're not tracking in real time; even flight radar (or whatever the site is called) does a better job tracking flights!

There are so many trackers that the companies could use. I'd love to hear of one major airline doing it.

 

[gregjrichards]

It is terrible a diver has died trying to recover the victims from the sea floor. May they Rest In Peace.

 

[Cryptic]

JMO
If any pilots here or people experienced in flying I do have a question I have been wondering about.

I watch a lot of those shows that document airline disasters and I am always amazed why a plane in trouble cannot glide in and do a bellow flop in the water rather than going in nose first and violently crashing.

In this accident it says this below quoted in the aritcle. So why couldnt the pilot glide it in and belly flop it instead?

I am not a pilot, but I play one on TV (well not really, I just like airplanes).

That aside, for a plane to glide in, it must still be truly flying though the air. This means that the engine power, rate of climb, air speed etc must still be allowing the wings to give the plane lift. If these things are not happening, then the plane is not truly flying. Rather it is falling from the sky, or worse- tumbling though the sky.

Though it is possible to recover from a "stall" (an inability to truly fly) by combining rate of descent / ascent, wing angle, power ratio etc, and then glide in, it needs to be done very quickly. Stalled planes can rapdily hit 'the point of no return' from which a recovery from a stall is aerodynamically not possible no matter how skilled the pilots are. In this case, the plane can be doomed long before it hit the water / ground.

Then factor in that passenger planes are not fighter planes. Military planes have a lot of advantages in avoiding stalls and recovering from them: Massive amounts of thrust to weight ratio, designed for a lot of extreme manuvers- thus harder to stall, maybe excess wing lift capacity in regards to weight etc. .

 

[AlwaysShocked]

I too miss cariis on this type of thread.

Airplane engines do not have "perpetual motion". Read about first and second laws of thermodynamics here:
Perpetual motion - Wikipedia

 

[margarita25]

any thread about a plane (for starters) will never be the same!

I’ve also been wondering about him here, and in the 2 recent mass shooting threads...hope he’s okay.

 

[Pi Thoughts]

It has been revealed that Lion Air dispatched one of its engineers on the fatal flight that crashed Monday killing all 189 aboard.
According to Aviation Herald, “the airline confirmed one of their maintenance engineers was on board the aircraft during the accident flight. This was an “anticipatory measure” in the event of technical problems with the new aircraft. As such, “the presence of the technician has nothing to do with the condition of the aircraft before taking off.”

https://thewest.com.au/news/aviatio...flight-in-anticipatory-measure-ng-b881011084z

 

[margarita25]

It is terrible a diver has died trying to recover the victims from the sea floor. May they Rest In Peace.

Oh nooooooo!

 

[gregjrichards]

Indonesian divers have found the main wreckage of Lion Air Flight 610 that crashed Monday killing all 189 aboard, and also say they can hear the signal from the aircraft’s missing cockpit voice recorder.

Speaking with media the head of Indonesia’s Search and Rescue Agency Muhammad Syaugi said that the "ping" from the voice recorder was quite weak, but it is close to one of the search vessels.

The Lion Air Flight Data Recorder was located on Thursday, but investigators told media that they have not yet been able to extract any information from it.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/thew...and-cockpit-voice-recorder-ng-b881011391z.amp

 

[gregjrichards]

Oh nooooooo!

Syachrul Anto, 48, passed away on Friday evening while he was recovering body parts from the Java Sea. It is believed he died from decompression.

“He was found by the SAR team, fainted. He was treated by our doctors, after he regained consciousness, we sent him to the chamber for decompression,” Mr Syaugi said at a press conference.

“We have all the equipment, however God’s will says differently.”

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....0/news-story/ece06ea235514ba3f77cf02cc92f63a4

It is terrible Margarita. Let’s hope there is no further tragedy in this horrendous and terrible incident.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Divers searching for the wreckage of Indonesian Lion Air Flight 610 have found the main fuselage and claim they can now hear a signal from the aircraft's missing cockpit voice recorder. Divers had now heard a "ping" from the second black box.

Diving teams are working to locate the black box. "Although the sound is quite weak, it came from the spot not far from the ship 'Victory,'" one of the vessels involved in the search effort.

It's not yet clear what condition the main fuselage is in. Most of the plane's wreckage remains deep in the water and it's so shattered that analysts say much of the recovery is likely to be done by hand or with nets.

Only one person has been identified so far, a female, through a fingerprint.

Lion Air crash: Divers find main fuselage, hear signal from missing recorder, officials say - CNN

 

[margarita25]

Syachrul Anto, 48, passed away on Friday evening while he was recovering body parts from the Java Sea. It is believed he died from decompression.

“He was found by the SAR team, fainted. He was treated by our doctors, after he regained consciousness, we sent him to the chamber for decompression,” Mr Syaugi said at a press conference.

“We have all the equipment, however God’s will says differently.”

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....0/news-story/ece06ea235514ba3f77cf02cc92f63a4

It is terrible Margarita. Let’s hope there is no further tragedy in this horrendous and terrible incident.

(O/T, but I can’t help but be reminded of the very somber moment we all found out that “Hero Saman” died while trying to rescue the little soccer team boys trapped in the cave in Thailand.

RIP Mr. Anto. I have no doubt he knew the potential dangers of such a recovery mission but still bravely attempted it anyway in order to help bring closure to these families.

 

[MsFacetious]

I hope they can also recover the CVR and I hope it gives answers. There are not many planes that nose dive like this. I can only recall one previously actually. That type of speed would explain the decimation however, without any explosion or anything.

I also hope that no more lives are lost.

<modsnip - quoted post removed>

 

[gregjrichards]

Divers searching for the wreckage of Indonesian Lion Air Flight 610 can no longer hear a signal from the aircraft's missing cockpit voice recorder, the head of Indonesia's Search and Rescue Agency said Sunday.

Diving teams have been working to locate the device, commonly known as a black box, which could help investigators piece together the final moments of the brand-new Boeing 737 before it crashed, killing all 189 people on board.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....ia/lion-air-crash-recovery-efforts/index.html

 

[gregjrichards]

Investigators succeeded in retrieving hours of data from a crashed Lion Air jet's flight recorder as Indonesian authorities on Sunday extended the search at sea for victims and debris.

National Transportation Safety Committee deputy chairman Haryo Satmiko told a news conference that 69 hours of flight data was downloaded from the recorder, including its fatal flight.

Data recovered from crashed Lion Air flight recorder

 

[JudgeJudi]

The plane's flight data recorder was located Thursday, but investigators say they have not yet been able to extract any information from it.

Efforts to extract information from the flight data recorder, which should contain valuable information on how the plane's systems were performing in the moments before the crash, continued over the weekend.

Investigators were in the process of cleaning the salt residue from its memory card so they could download the data, Nurcahyo Utomo, of the Indonesian National Transportation Safety Commission (KNKT), said.

Boeing and the US NTSB are flying special equipment to Indonesia to help local authorities extract information from it.

Lion Air crash: Signal from black box lost, searchers say - CNN

 

[Roselvr]

Divers searching for the wreckage of Indonesian Lion Air Flight 610 can no longer hear a signal from the aircraft's missing cockpit voice recorder, the head of Indonesia's Search and Rescue Agency said Sunday.

Diving teams have been working to locate the device, commonly known as a black box, which could help investigators piece together the final moments of the brand-new Boeing 737 before it crashed, killing all 189 people on board.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....ia/lion-air-crash-recovery-efforts/index.html

I have to wonder why the batteries died already. This was a NEW plane .

<modsnip - discussing other members >

 

[wildflower@]

Lion Air Flight 610 was intact with its engines running when it crashed at high speed into the Java Sea, the head of Indonesia's National Transportation Safety Committee said Monday.

Soerjanto Tjahjono said that due to the small size of the debris found and loss of the plane's engine blades, investigators determined that Flight 610 did not explode in the air, but was in "good shape" before it crashed 13 minutes after takeoff on Monday, October 29.
Speaking with victims' families on Monday in Jakarta, Soerjanto said there was a technical problem with the brand new Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft on the day of the crash. He did not provide further details about the problem.

Lion Air crash: Plane was intact when it crashed, investigators say - CNN

I think this is going to end up being they got into a deep stall and because of their altitude did not have the time and height needed to recover. The high speed at impact indicates having no control of the aircraft. It seems like they were getting confusing data from instruments and did not have time to properly respond.

It is very tricky because if what the plane is actually doing (compared to instrument readings)the opposite of what it actually doing the correction makes everything go south really quickly. jmo

 

[JudgeJudi]

New details gleaned from the flight data recorder come after the government said it was launching a "special audit" of the budget carrier's operations.

The National Transportation Safety Committee said Monday that the black box data showed the plane had an air speed indicator issue on at least two other earlier flights.

"There were four flights in all that suffered a problem with the airspeed indicator," the head of the NTSC said. "When there was a problem, the pilot would write it down and the mechanic would do (a repair)...Then the plane would be declared airworthy."

The agency said it would probe what caused the indicator problem and whether proper repairs were done - including replacing the faulty component, he added.

The transportation minister said, "We will...conduct a special audit of the crews' qualifications and staff communication. This is a preventative measure...(The accident) is a very expensive lesson for us."

Scores of body bags filled with remains have been collected and sent for DNA testing, but so far just 14 people have been identified.

Lion Air crash: Last four flights had airspeed indicator problems