Lisa has been Missing for 6 Months now

[Deleted member 39678]

Steve Young did not want to publicly get into a pissing contest with the Star reporter. I understand that and I don't blame him.

He didn't say those exact words (no evidence) and it was not an exact quote in the Star article. He didn't say those exact words to me when I pointed out there is evidence (the X box on the search warrant, the cadaver dog hit etc etc). You can see what he said exactly in the story in response to my question. I quoted him and ran the quote past him before I published just to make sure it was 100 percent accurate.


Steve Young has not told me this but I understand from others that there was an internal debate about turning the case over to homicide or murder squad detectives. But the decision was made to keep the case with the Crimes Against Detectives Children.

I'm glad the baby Lisa case is getting attention on the six-month mark. We all just want answers.

This is just my opinion, but if Steve Young feels that a reporter quotes him out of context, he should bring that to the public's attention. He's a public servant doing public announcements for the police department. It shouldn't be about "pissing contests" or stepping on peoples toes. His job is to let the public know what his Dept wants to be released. Nothing less is acceptable. IMO.

 

[DeAnn]

This is just my opinion, but if Steve Young feels that a reporter quotes him out of context, he should bring that to the public's attention. He's a public servant doing public announcements for the police department. It shouldn't be about "pissing contests" or stepping on peoples toes. His job is to let the public know what his Dept wants to be released. Nothing less is acceptable. IMO.

Hey, I got something wrong in a story about Brando (and have been eviserated here on WS for that!). I tried to correct it later but the damage was done. We do our best but aren't perfect.

Anyway, he didn't call me out on it and he could have.

There's the old maxim that you don't get into a pissing contest with people who buy ink by the barrel.

I only can guess but my guess is by drawing attention to a small sentence in a much bigger story will only raise questions about what evidence is there and isn't there and KCPD's doesn't want to do that. They aren't trying this case in the media. And they have avoided all talk about Lisa being dead despite what is in the search warrant that would indicate that they have evidence that suggests at that.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Hey, I got something wrong in a story about Brando (and have been eviserated here on WS for that!). I tried to correct it later but the damage was done. We do our best but aren't perfect.

Anyway, he didn't call me out on it and he could have.

There's the old maxim that you don't get into a pissing contest with people who buy ink by the barrel.

I only can guess but my guess is by drawing attention to a small sentence in a much bigger story will only raise questions about what evidence is there and isn't there and KCPD's doesn't want to do that. They aren't trying this case in the media. And they have avoided all talk about Lisa being dead despite what is in the search warrant that would indicate that they have evidence that suggests at that.

I was going to try and explain my thoughts on this in a more detailed manner and decided not to. I'll let my initial post stand and say thank you DeAnn for all your efforts in trying find Lisa.

ETA: Our country wouldn't be as great a nation as it is without a free press.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

The writer of the original article should be taken to task then, because the text said 'Young said there is no evidence of a dead BL.

Amazing really because if the article said the opposite, no one would question what he said.

BBM: You took the words right out of my mouth

 

[Quizzical]

There are times I wish I could write what I know off the record or on background in this case and can't for a variety of reasons. (Starbucks is the biggest case in point).

But knowing the Kansas City Police Department and FBI, I cannot believe they only used one cadaver dog in this case. I'll eat my computer if I'm wrong in my belief.

BBM. What about Starbucks? I haven't read here for a while...did I miss something?

 

[Melon]

I just added a picture of Jeremy Irwin at the balloon release tonight to the story.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/17332959/search-for-baby-lisa-irwin-grows-cold

Jeremy spoke to reporters tonight. Our crew returning to station with video. Debbie Bradley did not attend balloon release.

I appreciate the depth of your piece. Glad you were able to clarify on that "no evidence" comment.

 

[Melon]

:bump:

 

[Bayou Mistress]

but someone said that if Lisa would not be classified as a homicide(please forgive me not quoting correctly, I was looking up something real quick too) but still under missing/abducted if she was accidentally killed. Wouldn't that still fall under homicide but more under like negligent homicide?

 

[Donjeta]

Only if the accident was caused by gross negligence I think (but I am not a lawyer). Some accidental deaths would seem to be just an unfortunate series of unforeseeable coincidences.

Although I think that negligence would probably play a part in the majority of accidents that end up being covered up by faking an abduction.

 

[Bayou Mistress]

But my understanding is that any death in which the cause is undetermined is assigned to homicide investigation to determine the cause, regardless of what is "thought" to be the reason for the death. To me if there was evidence to show that lisa is deceased without her body the cause could not be determined and it would be up to a homicide(which means simply but includes layers: where one person kills another regardless of intention or not) detectives to determine. For example in negligent homicide, the person did not intend to kill the person but some act of negligence on part of the person resulted in the other's death. I thought of that example to explain a homicide that was unintentional.

In reading the statements of LE(excluding the one DeAnn proved inaccurate) regarding both the lab work being back and that the case is still being worked as a missing or abducted person case, I would reasonable assume that to mean there is no difinitive evidence that shows Lisa is deceased. If there was the case should be handled by homicide detectives, at least that is to my opinion and understanding of procedure. I also took note, this is the first time in a long time I have seen LE use there term abducted since the HRD hit. If I recall correctly she was stated as being endangered missing. I do find that odd. If it were ruled out she was kidnapped, why would LE use that in the case classification?

Only if the accident was caused by gross negligence I think (but I am not a lawyer). Some accidental deaths would seem to be just an unfortunate series of unforeseeable coincidences.

Although I think that negligence would probably play a part in the majority of accidents that end up being covered up by faking an abduction.

 

[redheadedgal]

lisa's case is with the crimes against children squad which usually includes cases of child abuse and sexual assault... i don't believe in this case it's the latter... taking what deann said SY said, i believe the detectives are somewhere b/w child abuse and homicide...

 

[Bayou Mistress]

....come out and said that there is evidence to show Lisa is deceased though.
Perhaps I should say where I stand. I really believe it the constitutional rights given to us by the country we live in and especially the one where people are innocent until proven guilty, and view it from a standard as a possible juror, even though in this case I will not be a possible juror. I have seen it said that Lisa is the only victim, but if Lisa was kidnapped and taken from her family and DB did not harm her, the family are also victims of this crime.

Reviewing this case in the standard I said above, as if I were a possible juror, I am trying to piece what clues we are given from LE. From what has been given there seems to currently be nothing to point to a deceased Lisa, only a missing Lisa, who could very well have been abducted.

lisa's case is with the crimes against children squad which usually includes cases of child abuse and sexual assault... i don't believe in this case it's the latter... taking what deann said SY said, i believe the detectives are somewhere b/w child abuse and homicide... i won't second guess their choices. they know the law and they know what they're doing imo.


for example:

http://bayside-leader.whereilive.co...lice-squad-to-tackle-crimes-against-children/

 

[redheadedgal]

ok-- i did some digging re: what homicide squads can work on (link to one dept. below)... and you are correct. it does include suspicious and accidental deaths... so scratch my last post.

if they think she's dead, yes, i would have to agree her case should be with homicide... but i'm sure they have their reasons for what they are doing and i hope we all get answers sooner than later.

http://www.police.co.nassau.ny.us/homicide.htm


no evidence of a deceased lisa? please read thru the threads

 

[Donjeta]

Oh I see what you mean now.

What kind of evidence would show definitively that Lisa is deceased, in the absence of her body and with no confession? The cadaver dog hit would point in that direction, if accurate and confirmed, but it might possibly be some other dead body or decaying human flesh. Huge amounts of Lisa's blood might make it unlikely for her to have survived but we haven't heard anything about blood being found.

Personally I think that they should cover every scenario until they know what happened.

 

[Bayou Mistress]

That's just it, the biggest evidence they have had thus far has been the HRD hit. Now they are saying labs are in, and the case is being worked as Missing/Abducted. If there were forensics to back the HRD I would think that would definitely be enough to change the case classification.

This is my first missing person's case I have ever followed, and in the process of this case I have researched some others, and I have to wonder if it would be better to start with abduction and all that then come back to the parents. In cases of abductions they say what, the first 48-72 hours are most critical, the parents aren't really going anywhere, so kind of go with it until it takes you back to the parents??? I haven't had a chance to read every thread in here yet, but has it been asked and answered anywhere why it took so long to thoroughly process the crime scene.

Oh I see what you mean now.

What kind of evidence would show definitively that Lisa is deceased, in the absence of her body and with no confession? The cadaver dog hit would point in that direction, if accurate and confirmed, but it might possibly be some other dead body or decaying human flesh. Huge amounts of Lisa's blood might make it unlikely for her to have survived but we haven't heard anything about blood being found.

Personally I think that they should cover every scenario until they know what happened.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

"At the 6 month mark, it really hits home just how long she's been gone. I find myself reflecting on the missed milestones and life events; her first birthday, the first Christmas she would have been able to actively participate in, family dinners on birthdays, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter this upcoming weekend.

"She missed M's 6th birthday which would have been fun for her just like B's 8th birthday was. She's missing out on enjoying the unseasonably warm Kansas City weather with her brothers.

"I envision a very different child than the one she was on Oct 3rd. I'm sure she's running around and talking really well, has long hair, and maybe it's even a little bit darker now (Jeremy's hair was blonde as a baby and got darker as he got older).

"I think she's probably very active. She would be if she was at home with her brothers because she would be trying to keep up with them. I imagine she's eating all sorts of different foods, exploring and learning.

"I think about how adorable she would be in a little Easter dress and think about Mother's Day around the corner and it breaks my heart. The whole situation is extremely confusing, saddening and frustrating at the same time - it's definitely overwhelming. The lack of information is difficult to accept in a modern society such as ours, but we keep hoping and praying for a miracle."


Continue reading on Examiner.com Baby Lisa Irwin: Aunt’s message at the 6-month mark of baby’s disappearance - National missing persons | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/missing-per...th-mark-of-baby-s-disappearance#ixzz1rNEBbvpC

Not a hint there that Ashley had never met Lisa.

Since Jeremy Irwin's parents Rick and Melanie were in a grandparental rights lawsuit with Jeremy when Lisa went missing and they, along with Ashley, had never met Lisa, I am wondeirng if they are still being kept from seeing their grandson. Did Deborah have something to do with this? Is this at all connected with the $109 lawsuit Ashley previously filed against Jeremy that she probably now regrets?

https://www.facebook.com/KansasCityPI/posts/10150715260432453

 

[4Jacy]

"At the 6 month mark, it really hits home just how long she's been gone. I find myself reflecting on the missed milestones and life events; her first birthday, the first Christmas she would have been able to actively participate in, family dinners on birthdays, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter this upcoming weekend.

"She missed Mike's 6th birthday which would have been fun for her just like Blake's 8th birthday was. She's missing out on enjoying the unseasonably warm Kansas City weather with her brothers.

"I envision a very different child than the one she was on Oct 3rd. I'm sure she's running around and talking really well, has long hair, and maybe it's even a little bit darker now (Jeremy's hair was blonde as a baby and got darker as he got older).

"I think she's probably very active. She would be if she was at home with her brothers because she would be trying to keep up with them. I imagine she's eating all sorts of different foods, exploring and learning.

"I think about how adorable she would be in a little Easter dress and think about Mother's Day around the corner and it breaks my heart. The whole situation is extremely confusing, saddening and frustrating at the same time - it's definitely overwhelming. The lack of information is difficult to accept in a modern society such as ours, but we keep hoping and praying for a miracle."


Continue reading on Examiner.com Baby Lisa Irwin: Aunt’s message at the 6-month mark of baby’s disappearance - National missing persons | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/missing-per...th-mark-of-baby-s-disappearance#ixzz1rNEBbvpC

Not a hint there that Ashley had never met Lisa.

Since Jeremy Irwin's parents Rick and Melanie were in a grandparental rights lawsuit with Jeremy when Lisa went missing and they, along with Ashley, had never met Lisa, I am wondeirng if they are still being kept from seeing their grandson. Did Deborah have something to do with this? Is this at all connected with the $109 lawsuit Ashley previously filed against Jeremy that she probably now regrets?

https://www.facebook.com/KansasCityPI/posts/10150715260432453

BBM

I couldn't believe it when I read that. Her statement sounded like she knew Lisa, had watched her grow, and they had a special bond. OMG!

 

[Donjeta]

I forget, how do we know that AI has never met Lisa?


In the early days she imo implied that she'd spent time with them

When asked if she has any doubt that Bradley or her brother Jeremy Irwin had anything to do with baby Lisa's disappearance, Ashley Irwin confirmed that she thinks there is no way that they could be involved.

"Anybody who spends any time with them, you know it's not true. She's genuine. She loves that child. It's her baby … She would never anything to hurt her," Ashley Irwin said.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-ba...bandoned-house/story?id=14709800#.T4B3zNWS984

 

[redheadedgal]

That's just it, the biggest evidence they have had thus far has been the HRD hit. Now they are saying labs are in, and the case is being worked as Missing/Abducted. If there were forensics to back the HRD I would think that would definitely be enough to change the case classification.

This is my first missing person's case I have ever followed, and in the process of this case I have researched some others, and I have to wonder if it would be better to start with abduction and all that then come back to the parents. In cases of abductions they say what, the first 48-72 hours are most critical, the parents aren't really going anywhere, so kind of go with it until it takes you back to the parents??? I haven't had a chance to read every thread in here yet, but has it been asked and answered anywhere why it took so long to thoroughly process the crime scene.

1st bold: iirc, deann states in this thread there were detectives who wanted this case with homicide... i will look for the post if you missed it...

2nd bold: standard LE protocol is to start with the family and work outwards from there... i will look for a link for you that explains the process...

3rd bold: iirc, the parents only gave their consent for a limited search/processing in the beginning... again i will look for links for you later... i have to run out for a while.

btw,

:welcome4:

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

3rd bold: iirc, the parents only gave their consent for a limited search/processing in the beginning... again i will look for links for you later... i have to run out for a while.

Snipped for space. In the SW it states only a limitted search was done in the beginning based on the parents account of what happened, it does not say the parents limitted the search in any way IIRC.