Lloyd Welch is Person of Interest

[darmela]

There are two cemeteries that I know of on Taylor's Mountain (according to the FB page for Taylor's Mountain Decendents):

1. Holdren & Saunders Family Cemetary: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152696413334592.1073741850.171713764591&type=3

2. George Whitfield Dooley Cemetary: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152696353584592.1073741849.171713764591&type=3

Each FB link has PICS of these cemeteries. There could be more; this is just what I found on the FB page.

 

[Motherof5]

I have stated, on several occasions, my doubts about Welch being the lone perpetrator in this case.

The idea of this 18-year-old, disorganized, mentally ill individual, who had no drivers license or car, suddenly developing the organizational skills to abduct two girls from a well populated area without a trace is hard to fathom. And then for him independantly to drive them all the way to western Virginia?

Welch evidently connected himself to this case at least as early as 1 April 1975 when he contacted Montgomery County Police by phone, calling in a "tip" and giving his name and Hyattsville address. MCP has never acknowledged or released any information in that "tip", and there is no information that they ever began following up on the tip until some time last year (2013).

There have been some news leaks that two other members of Welch's family might have been involved. While I have not heard any such information directly from MCP, it would seem a more likely scenario that Welch (if actually involved) was part of a "team" rather than that he did it all on his own.

If Welch was indeed directly involved in the abduction and possible murder of the Lyon sisters, why would he call the police in on his own position by trying to claim a reward? There are a lot of possibilities, but at this point things don't seem to add up.

News channels in the Washington DC area are NOT claiming yet that any remains have been found. Stories speak of the on going investigation in Virginia and photos of Welch and the Lyon Sisters are shown briefly. Hopefully MCP will provide a more indepth press release some time soon.

Probably for the same sick reasons that Gina DeJesus's abductor went to her candle light vigil while he had her locked away at his house and Megan Kanka's killer offered to help with the search after he killed her. What seems crazy to us makes perfect sense to the crazy people who commit these crimes. Killers trying to get involved,in some way, in the investigations of their crimes is nothing new.

 

[darmela]

Here's a link to another cemetery I found on Taylor's Mountain - Cool Springs Cemetery: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cool-Springs-Cemetery-Taylors-Mountain/574529372564367

 

[darmela]

And yet another: Alexander Overstreet Cemetery https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...xNW_Q3NsVy1yk3Xwg&sig2=AV7gQzpH2UwLkdaGLZ5Bzg

 

[darmela]

"Residents say police have been focusing their search at a cemetery on the top of a hill."

http://www.nbc12.com/story/26550627/1975-maryland-cold-case-leads-to-cemetery-in-bedford

 

[Motherof5]

"Residents say police have been focusing their search at a cemetery on the top of a hill."

http://www.nbc12.com/story/26550627/1975-maryland-cold-case-leads-to-cemetery-in-bedford

Most likely the Parker Family cemetery behind Elizabeth Welch Parker's home.


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[Richard]

Mileski - Welch Connection?


There has been a great deal of information released today about Lloyd Welch, along with the announcement that he is a person of interest in the disappearance of Kate and Sheila Lyon in 1975.

While he seems a proper candidate for the position of "potential suspect", I have some doubts. The strongest of those doubts would be first his age in March of 1975, and secondly would be numerous statements about him hitch hiking to get places.

At age 17 and a half, he does not fit the general profile of a well organized, experienced killer who is capable of abducting and murdering two young girls in broad daylight, leaving no trace what-so-ever.

As has been mentioned and discussed by numerous posters over the years, to effect a successful abduction in this case, one would almost have to have a motor vehicle to get the girls out of the area quickly. If Welch had such a vehicle, why was he always hitch hiking?

Is there any evidence that he lived in one of the houses along the route the girls took to their home?

Of course, one could argue that Welch has proven by his subsequent behavior and crimes that he is capable of cold blooded abductions, rape, and murder - but had he evolved to that level by age 17?

Did Welch always work alone, or did he have partners? If he had partners in crime, could he have been part of a team acting together to abduct Sheila and Kate?

Obviously, the police have infomation or evidence which they have not shared with the public to date. So I am hesitant to completely disregard Welch as a potential suspect.

Somebody has talked, and police are anxious to corroborate their information. The first "Re-release" of the Long Hair Sketch last November was a fishing expedition in which police hoped to find other potential victims of Welch. Now they have decided to come out and seek information by specifically citing the Lyon Case. One has to wonder why they have taken so long to even show the sketch to the public.

There are some intriguing coincidences and possibilities, however.

One of the previously considered potential suspects was a guy named Raymond Mileski. Mileski murdered members of his own family in 1977 and was sentenced to life in Maryland Prison. In April of 1982, Mileski was identified as being connected to the Lyon sisters' disappearance in some way by other inmates. His former home and yard in Suitland Maryland was dug up by MCP looking for bodies. None were found.

In 2002, Mileski claimed in two letters that he had met the guy who abducted the Lyon Sisters "in the pen". He identified this person only as "C. D." and stated that he wanted a prison transfer in exchange for his information. Was Mileski only making it all up for a better deal, or had he actually met such a person? Was that person Welch? Note that Welch began his Maryland prison stay in April 1982 - the same month and year that Mileski came to light as a Person of Interest.

Mileski died in prison in 2004. He had gotten the transfer he desired, so it is possible that MCP did in fact speak with him about the Lyon Case.

There is much more information about Mileski in early posts in this forum. One strong "coincidence" is that after the Tape Recorder Man story and sketch was in the news media in April 1975, about 15 other people came forward to state that they, too, had seen such a person at other times and in other malls.

While there were several earlier sightings of a Tape Recorder Man at Wheaton Plaza, there were even more such sightings at Iverson Mall and Marlow Heights Shopping Center in Prince Georges County (just south of Washington DC). Those two malls were only a short distance from Mileski's home and business.

Mileski employed a teen aged boy in his business and the boy (a school drop out) lived in his house with him. Is it possible that he might have known Welch in 1975?

--------------------------
I posted the above narrative last 11 February 2014 on the day that the news about Welch first broke. It was a banner day for posts on this topic, with this thread alone totalling 8 pages with 191 posts.

In the above post, I stated my belief that if Welch was involved in the abduction of the Lyon Sisters, he might have had partners or had been working as part of a team.

Back in April of 1981, Raymond Mileski (a convicted murderer of his wife and son) had come to the attention of MCP investigators because of stories or claims that he allegedly made to other inmates regarding the Lyon Sisters. His former house and yard were searched for a few hours one afternoon, but investigators found only "bird bones".

In January 2001, an informant called in a "tip" to a Missing Persons website with a long story about how several persons (including Mileski) had been involved in the abduction, murder, and burial of the Lyon Sisters. The story checked our in many details which could be researched. The information seemed to be independant of the previous information obtained from the convicts, although some of it was similar.

The problem was that this information was all second and third hand, and at best it could only be alleged that Mileski had stated that he "knew who the abductors were" or that he may have become involved AFTER the abduction took place.

In early 2001 Mileski replied from prison in writing to a letter from a private investigator. His first letter was rather short but he indicated that he did indeed have information about the Lyon case and that he would share it with police in return for a prison transfer. His second letter (to the private investigator) was longer, more detailed, but somewhat elusive in places. He implied that he had more to tell.

Here is what Mileski stated (in part) in his first letter:

Quote: Yes there is objective and subjective matter on your subject area I could speak to; particularly as to a region -- within which (is) an area, within which is specific acreage that would involve something of a lodge; a place one would go for brief hunting or fishing stays...
In short, I'm probably as sure of who the perpetrator is in the Lyons case as the Md State Police are, having discoursed many times and in close quarters with that person over years at the "Pen"... (C.D. and I were "almost friends")...
Here is what I propose; Have your contact with the State Police place a request to Warden - as to my being transferred to the Maryland House of Corrections - this for the duration of my incarceration. This would improve my lot as well as facilitate easier logistics for who of police might be assigned ... to speak with me. ...
When I told my son , "I know who did that", I was referring to what I had gathered at the "Pen"...
Ray Mileski, 2-16-01." Unquote.

-----------------
It now appears that a investigators are convinced that more than one perpetrator was involved in the disappearance of the Lyon Sisters and they are searching a remote area of Virginia, hoping to find evidence. Could it be that Mileski was giving them acurate information?

Mileski did get the transfer that he asked for and he died later the next year, 2002.

 

[Motherof5]

--------------------------
I posted the above narrative last 11 February 2014 on the day that the news about Welch first broke. It was a banner day for posts on this topic, with this thread alone totalling 8 pages with 191 posts.

In the above post, I stated my belief that if Welch was involved in the abduction of the Lyon Sisters, he might have had partners or had been working as part of a team.

Back in April of 1981, Raymond Mileski (a convicted murderer of his wife and son) had come to the attention of MCP investigators because of stories or claims that he allegedly made to other inmates regarding the Lyon Sisters. His former house and yard were searched for a few hours one afternoon, but investigators found only "bird bones".

In January 2001, an informant called in a "tip" to a Missing Persons website with a long story about how several persons (including Mileski) had been involved in the abduction, murder, and burial of the Lyon Sisters. The story checked our in many details which could be researched. The information seemed to be independant of the previous information obtained from the convicts, although some of it was similar.

The problem was that this information was all second and third hand, and at best it could only be alleged that Mileski had stated that he "knew who the abductors were" or that he may have become involved AFTER the abduction took place.

In early 2001 Mileski replied from prison in writing to a letter from a private investigator. His first letter was rather short but he indicated that he did indeed have information about the Lyon case and that he would share it with police in return for a prison transfer. His second letter (to the private investigator) was longer, more detailed, but somewhat elusive in places. He implied that he had more to tell.

Here is what Mileski stated (in part) in his first letter:

Quote: Yes there is objective and subjective matter on your subject area I could speak to; particularly as to a region -- within which (is) an area, within which is specific acreage that would involve something of a lodge; a place one would go for brief hunting or fishing stays...
In short, I'm probably as sure of who the perpetrator is in the Lyons case as the Md State Police are, having discoursed many times and in close quarters with that person over years at the "Pen"... (C.D. and I were "almost friends")...
Here is what I propose; Have your contact with the State Police place a request to Warden - as to my being transferred to the Maryland House of Corrections - this for the duration of my incarceration. This would improve my lot as well as facilitate easier logistics for who of police might be assigned ... to speak with me. ...
When I told my son , "I know who did that", I was referring to what I had gathered at the "Pen"...
Ray Mileski, 2-16-01." Unquote.

-----------------
It now appears that a investigators are convinced that more than one perpetrator was involved in the disappearance of the Lyon Sisters and they are searching a remote area of Virginia, hoping to find evidence. Could it be that Mileski was giving them acurate information?

Mileski did get the transfer that he asked for and he died later the next year, 2002.

How did you get the letter from the private investigator?


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[danmanhatter]

I find it interesting the coincidences between Lloyd Welch's wherabouts and James Kowalski's wherabouts:

1) The house Kowalski owned in Hyattsville was within a ~1 mile distance of the house Welch's parents owned in Hyattsville and Junior Burdynski's home.

2) Kowalski's pedophile ring had known connections to homes in western portions of Virginia along the I-81 corridor, as well as West Virginia. Within easy short driving distances to Bedford County.

3) Kowalski's physical profile as well as opportunity (brief case and taping equipment) fits the description of the TRM (Tape Recorder Man). Working as a team with Welch would be considered as a real possibility and explain the lack of vehicle Welch did not have.

4) Kowalski eventually purchased a home a block away from the Lyon's home a few lots away from the path to Drumm. Coincidnently, that same home was vacated in 1974 and no permanent owner ever lived there during the 8 years following the girls disappearence. Kowalski also divorced in 1974 timeframe and his residence during this time is unknown.

 

[Richard]

How did you get the letter from the private investigator?

We worked together to get the Lyon Sisters' case featured for the first time on the internet back in 1999. I researched the case and wrote the summary for Maryland's Most Missing website. He was the point of contact for tips. He shared information with me and I fact checked it. All of our information was relayed to MCP case officers.

Since that time, many other websites, blogsites, and news service sites have "borrowed" my case summary - usually word for word. It is a bit frustrating seeing the same misspelled word and the same misstatement repeated over and over again.

 

[Richard]

I find it interesting the coincidences between Lloyd Welch's wherabouts and James Kowalski's wherabouts:....

True. It is actually kind of scarey when you consider all the potential suspects in this case and how so many were in the area around that time.

Kowalski came to police attention after the disappearance of George "Junior" Burdynski who went missing from his Brentwood, MD neighborhood some years after the Lyon sisters disappearance. Junior is also still missing.

Kowalski was never charged with Junior's abduction, but he was convicted of child poronography possession and trading - and is currently serving time in prison.

 

[crcurrie]

Does anyone know of a photo of Mileski? Does he bear a resemblance to Tape Recorder Man?

 

[Richard]

Does anyone know of a photo of Mileski? Does he bear a resemblance to Tape Recorder Man?

I have never seen a photo of Mileski. They do exist, however. He was booked on charges of murder in November 1977 by the Prince Georges County Police Department, and photos would have been taken then.

No photos of Mileski were published in the newspapers (that I have seen) following his arrest and trial in PG County.

As an inmate of the Maryland Prison System, photos would have been taken periodically, but were not put on the on-line "Inmate Locator" during his life time. When he died in 2002, the Maryland Inmate Locator deleted all reference to him, as is their practice.

A different website titled "Maryland Judiciary" does have a record of him, but only in text form, and only after a certain date. 1975 is too early for most of those records, unless there were on-going legal issues which extended through the nominal "start date" of the records.

I do not know if he resembled the Tape Recorder Man sketch. He was in his 40's at the time. There is a lot more information on him in the Potential Suspects thread and in the long origional thread of this topic.

 

[steveP120]

In this news story.

http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/local/2014/09/16/bedfor-county-montgomery-county-homicide/15730695/

I have not seen the entire press conference, but this says it all:

Authorities know who is responsible for the abduction and murder of the Lyon sisters, and said "it includes Lloyd Welch and family family members," Montgomery County Police Captain Darren Francke said." Francke would not specify on which family members and how many police believe were involved.

------------------------------

I was always betting on Welch, with a trying to pick up a too-young kid gone wrong, but if Welch had help, it could either be
1) help after the murders getting rid of the bodies or
2) help in planning and commiting the crime.

I would bet on 1) help getting rid of the bodies after the crime. If Welch had phoned some family member to call and said, "I just killed two teenagers in a fight" (neglecting to say they were young girls and the fight was caused by a botched sexual advance) a close relative might help get rid of bodies.

But 2) Welch being in partnership with someone else, is not out of the question. There is no evidence that Welch got messed up by being abused as a kid himself, but the odds are good. So it's possible that Welch knew some other child molesters. But going from being a child molester to a premeditated murderer is a huge step.

I would have expected the police would search every area Welch was known to visit for the bodies even if the police received no tips.

But later reports suggest (do not state) that the police received a tip. I would guess the tip was something like, "Welch's relative was complaining about his no-good relative in a bar twenty years ago. He even said he had to help Welch bury a body. He lies and tells tall tales all the time, especially when drinking so I did not report it to the police twenty years ago. But when I saw the news story about Welch and the Lyon sisters, I thought it might be true so I called the police. "

 

[marylandmissing]

In this news story.

http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/local/2014/09/16/bedfor-county-montgomery-county-homicide/15730695/

I have not seen the entire press conference, but this says it all:

Authorities know who is responsible for the abduction and murder of the Lyon sisters, and said "it includes Lloyd Welch and family family members," Montgomery County Police Captain Darren Francke said." Francke would not specify on which family members and how many police believe were involved.

------------------------------

I was always betting on Welch, with a trying to pick up a too-young kid gone wrong, but if Welch had help, it could either be
1) help after the murders getting rid of the bodies or
2) help in planning and commiting the crime.

I would bet on 1) help getting rid of the bodies after the crime. If Welch had phoned some family member to call and said, "I just killed two teenagers in a fight" (neglecting to say they were young girls and the fight was caused by a botched sexual advance) a close relative might help get rid of bodies.

But 2) Welch being in partnership with someone else, is not out of the question. There is no evidence that Welch got messed up by being abused as a kid himself, but the odds are good. So it's possible that Welch knew some other child molesters. But going from being a child molester to a premeditated murderer is a huge step.

I would have expected the police would search every area Welch was known to visit for the bodies even if the police received no tips.

But later reports suggest (do not state) that the police received a tip. I would guess the tip was something like, "Welch's relative was complaining about his no-good relative in a bar twenty years ago. He even said he had to help Welch bury a body. He lies and tells tall tales all the time, especially when drinking so I did not report it to the police twenty years ago. But when I saw the news story about Welch and the Lyon sisters, I thought it might be true so I called the police. "

Tip came from here...I'll inbox you...

 

[cgoodwin22]

Tip came from here...I'll inbox you...

marylandmissing. sending you a PM.

 

[Motherof5]

http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/inv...ford-co-as-part-of-lyon-sisters-case/28187524

Hamill believes someone in Thaxton has the answers, and he's hoping their conscience will eventually prompt them to speak.

"That little bit of information that somebody could offer, who lives a stone's throw away from (Taylor's Mountain), could give us the missing piece of the puzzle in this case," Hamill told WDBJ7 Monday.

Speak up dammit!!!!!:tantrum:

http://www.wset.com/story/26597903/more-md-officers-join-taylors-mountain-search


"There are no plans for us to pack up and go home any time soon. We're fully committed to this and we're in it for the long haul,” said Montgomery Co., MD Assistant Police Chief Russ Hamill. :tyou:

 

[steveP120]

Hamill believes someone in Thaxton... the body or lie to the police if questioned.

 

[Motherof5]

sound far less certain than the conclusion offered by Montgomery County Police Captain Franke, mentioned in my previous post a few post up.

Since the police said the other family members were involved, they better have good information or they are going to be sued.

Until a few days ago, even Mike/Lloyd Welch was only a person of interest, and Richard was speculating that Welch could be just a witness.

I would say it's more likely that some of Welch's family members were just a witness to him burying something. Although I think even if I observe someone burying a body I am not legally required to turn him or her in. Of course I can't help bury the body or lie to the police if questioned.

They had to get a judge to sign warrants before they could spend over a week digging and searching. I'm not worried about them being sued. I was very interested in this part....

"That little bit of information that somebody could offer, who lives a stone's throw away from (Taylor's Mountain), could give us the missing piece of the puzzle in this case," Hamill told WDBJ7 Monday.

The police chief wasn't speaking about or to, just anyone. He was calling someone out without giving their name. Someone who lives just a stones throw away from Taylor's Mountain.

I do agree with you as far as Welch not being just a witness. He raped young girls, he's more than a witness. JMO


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[steveP120]

I agree that it sounds like the police are calling out someone specific without giving their name. This could be an ex-wife or old girlfriend?

However, I still can't figure out why the police would say other family members are involved unless 1) they had very good proof and 2) EVERY family member was involved. Suppose Richard and I (Steve) were Welch's two uncles. If I was the one who helped Welch, Richard would have a good case of slander against the police. If we were both innocent, we both would have a good case of slander against the police. Being accused of involvement in a double child murder is not an accusation one should make lightly because it could ruin someone's life.

I am not an expert in police procedure, but don't they usually say something vague like, "We know who did it and are gathering more evidence." I can't recall hearing the police say to the press, "Steve did it, but we just don't have enough evidence yet." Saying, "We know either Steve and/or Richard was the murder," seems damaging to the innocent party and an invitation to a lawsuit. Perhaps the police just misspoke and he should have said a vague, "We know Welch had help and we know who helped him."