Lloyd Welch is Person of Interest

[Richard]

LE can't really say that TRM actually was there. Anyone could have said anything and that doesn't make it true. There is a big difference between Jimmy saying he saw the girls talking to TRM who is still to this day...a ghost and the girls' friend saying that a man was paying special attention to the girls. This man's sketch looks just like a RSO who is currently in prison and LE can actually place the RSO at the mall on 3/25/75. The RSO has also said he was at the mall walking around. That is reality. That is an actual person. Jimmy gave us a story that has amounted to nothing in 39 years. JMO

Actually it is a FACT that MCP DID say TRM was at the mall that day. Whether he was or not, or whether there is the proof that you need to believe it, they DID SAY that he was there. That is what their 31 March 1975 Press Conference and release of the sketch was all about. In their later press conferences, they added more information which they believed confirmed his existence.

When Lloyd Welch would have been reading about the $7000 reward, he would have been reading about the Tape Recorder Man and seeing the sketch released by MCP.

So whether or not TRM was there or only at half a dozen other malls, Welch believed that he was when he made his call to MCP.

You might also note that while the TRM sketch may not have solved this case in 39 years, neither has the one of LHM.

 

[Motherof5]

Actually it is a FACT that MCP DID say TRM was at the mall that day. Whether he was or not, or whether there is the proof that you need to believe it, they DID SAY that he was there. That is what their 31 March 1975 Press Conference and release of the sketch was all about. In their later press conferences, they added more information which they believed confirmed his existence.

When Lloyd Welch would have been reading about the $7000 reward, he would have been reading about the Tape Recorder Man and seeing the sketch released by MCP.

So whether or not TRM was there or only at half a dozen other malls, Welch believed that he was when he made his call to MCP.

You might also note that while the TRM sketch may not have solved this case in 39 years, neither has the one of LHM.

LE said that TRM was at the mall that day or did they say that there was a sighting of TRM by Jimmy because the two are very different things and in reality No one, not even LE can prove that a TRM was there. They have only Jimmy's story. I could say that I saw Elvis at the mall that day and have a sketch drawn up but it doesn't make my claim true. The same could be said for LHM except that we have a RSO who LE says that they can actually put at the mall,watching the girls and this RSO admitted to being there and he not only matches the LHM sketch...but also tried to rob a house near the Lyon home. Agree to disagree, I suppose.


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[Gruffin]

The second post in the "Tape Recorder Thread" is Richard's transcription of The Washington Star article from April 3, 1975, authored by Mary Ann Kuhn and Rebecca Leet. It mentions that Jimmy's friend also saw the tape recorder man (though, unlike Jimmy, he heard nothing while Jimmy heard TRM ask "Are any of you two involved in sports?"(and heard nothing else):

Jimmy's friend who was with him the day the Lyon girls were seen with the man at the plaza verified virtually everything Jimmy said except that he said he did not hear any of the conversation between the man and the girls.

It also mentions that after seeing the sketch which Pfc. Davis Morton made from Jimmy's description of TRM, four women came forward:

Last night, four women who called police saying they recognized the man in the sketch went to the Wheaton Police station to offer help in drawing a new composite.

According to Pfc. Davis Morton, a robbery squad detective who does composites "to help out whenever it's needed," the 13-year-old's description of the man was accurate.

"I showed the composite to four women (separately) and it seemed to be basically the guy they had seen," he said. "They suggested a few minor changes, but I don't know if they would even be noticeable."

I believe TRM was really there that day.

Come to think of it, it's curious that what TRM was supposed to have said also reads like "Are any of you too involved in sports?" And it's interesting that when Jeb saw TRM on a previous day at White Oaks shopping center near Sears, he claimed to have seen him talking to a red headed girl holding a basketball (another connection with sports). And he also had a briefcase.

MY first encounter with TRM was in front of Sears at White Oaks, where he was speaking with a red headed girl 13-15 yrs. old. She was holding a basketball & he had a briefcase with a tape recorder. While I was parking my car he picked up his brief case & stepped behind a large pilar by the entrance walkway.I was hard-pressed for time but I did notice him standing there as I passed by. My intention was to take care of my business in Sears, & confront him on my way out. I was delayed for about 15 or 20 mins. in Sears, & he was gone & so was the young girl, as I exited the store.

The second encounter was at Wheaton Plaza, were he was trying to speak with 2 little toddlers (females),whose mother was trying to pull them away. I stepped up as the mother & girls went on by. Among other words, I told my girlfriend who was with me, that this SOB is a baby snatcher, & I want to take a good look at him, so when someone disapears around here, I'll know who done it. I wanted to confront him then & there, but my girlfriend insisted we go, because it was freezing cold in the open (at the time) mall. I just missed my second chance to deal with this derelect. Also, he did have a recorder with a
microphone, which was attched to a brief case.

If Jeb's girlfriend confirmed Jeb's account, it would be especially hard to imagine TRM as made up. And it would be very strange for two boys to both lie or be confused about the date they saw the TRM at Wheaton.

 

[simplifymylife2014]

I noticed an excerpt from "News Advance" in Lynchburg, Virginia that the FBI named LLW as a POI.

Were they initially involved in that, back in February 2014?
Was the FBI involved because LLW had convictions from multiple states?

 

[Motherof5]

Interesting that Kate and Sheila's friend,who was walking around with them, didn't see them talking to a TRM. And bringing this quote from Richard over from the Sheila and Katherine thread.




"MCP seems to have dropped their interest in Tape Recorder Man about a month into the investigation, making official press statements which indicated that the man "might have been there for legitimate purposes", or "might not have been connected with their disappearance", etc. They never released either sketch after April 1975. "


I guess I feel that if LE lost interest in TRM after only a month...I don't really need to be concerned with him today. But,to each his own.

 

[simplifymylife2014]

WHAT DO WE KNOW about the friend of the girls who walked around with them at the mall?
Was it SHE, that helped compose the sketch of the LHM?

Has that friend posted ON HERE at websleuths?

WHO WAS IT THAT SAW SHEILA, I believe, LOOKING VERY WORRIED OR SOMETHING?
And WHERE WAS Sheila WHEN THAT PERSON NOTICED THAT?
Wasn't it NEXT TO THE EASTER BUNNY?

Were the girls ALWAYS SEEN TOGETHER at the mall?

 

[simplifymylife2014]

Report lists under:
"Race"--one of which listed says "Arab"

One member here mentioned things regarding this case that involves that PARTICULAR background.

Coincidence??

WHERE did MC police AT THAT TIME in 1979, get their info to fill out their police reports?

Will repost report next.

Richard, could you find and post other reports that mention the details of LLW's background on file?

It will be good to compare different documents from different time periods to see if the details match about his background.

 

[simplifymylife2014]

Court System: DISTRICT COURT FOR MONTGOMERY COUNTY (ROCKVILLE) - TRAFFIC SYSTEM
Citation Number: 0000004479046Case Status:ACTIVE CASE
Violation Date: 03/06/1979 Violation Time: 06:15 PM
Violation County: MONTGOMERY COUNTY (ROCKVILLE)
District Code: 06 Location Code: 01
AgencyName:MCP - 1ST DISTRICT
Officer ID:0919
Defendant Information

Defendant Name:WELCH, LLOYD LEE
Address:18407 LOSTKNIFE CIR #202
City: GAITHERSBURGState:MDZip Code:20760
Race:WHITE,CAUCASIAN,ASIATIC INDIAN,ARAB
Sex:MHeight:509Weight:165
DOB:12/1952
Charge Information

Charge: Article:TASec:16Sub-Sec:101Para:Code:
Description: DRIVING WITHOUT LICENSE
Location Stopped: LOST KNIFE CIR
Contributed to Accident?: NO Personal Injury?: NO
Fine: 250
Vehicle Tag: ECG856 State: MD Vehicle Description: 77PONT03
Disposition Information

Plea:
Disposition: FAILURE TO APPEAR
Disposition Date: 06/21/1979
Contributed To Accident: NO Personal Injury?: NO
Sentence Date: 06/21/1979
Sentence Time: Yrs:00Mos:00Days:000
Suspended Time: Yrs:00Mos:00Days:000
Costs: Fine: 0 CourtCost: 0 CICF: 0
Suspended: Fine: 0 CourtCost: 0 CICF Cost: 0
Related Person Information

Name:SIAVIN, EDWARD K
Connection:WITNESS FOR STATE
Address:2350 RESEARCH BLVD
City: ROCKVILLEState:MDZip Code:20850
Event History Information

Event Date Comment
SUSP 1979-07-11 FAILURE TO APPEAR SUSPENSION;FTA TRIAL DATE 790621
CCHG 1996-07-01 ;TA16101 ;0000000
SCHG 1996-07-01 T641;A TO R
SCHG 1996-07-01 T641;R TO A
Last edited by darmela; 02-11-2014 at 05:11 PM.

WHOSE CAR WAS HE DRIVING ILLEGALLY?

 

[simplifymylife2014]

Hey Richard.

I came across this case and can't help but notice some important similarities.
I found that you originally posted this in 2007 under the "Missing But Not Forgotten";
"1980's"--Case of Michaela.

Now that 7 more years have past and LLW and RAW, Sr. are, POI's along with the whereabouts chart we have for LLW, what are your thoughts about the case now?

I noticed that:

1. Michaela TOO, HAD BLOND HAIR AND BLUE EYES.
2. She TOO WENT MISSING ON A SCHOOL
BREAK-THANKSGIVING!!

CA - Michaela Joy Garecht, 9, Hayward, 19 Nov 1988
Michaela Joy Garecht
Missing since November 19, 1988 from Hayward, Alameda County, California.
Classification: Non Family Abduction


Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: January 24, 1979
Age at Time of Disappearance: 9 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 4'8; 75 pounds
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Blonde hair; blue eyes. Michaela has prominent ears and her eyes slant slightly downward.
Dentals: Her teeth are slightly mottled. Dental X-rays Available.
Clothing: White t-shirt with Metro written across the front and images of people imprinted on the midsection, pant or shorts, flesh-colored nylons, black cloth shoes with brown plastic soles.
Jewelry: 3" Pearl-colored or white earrings which resembled feathers.

Circumstances of Disappearance

Garecht was abducted by an unidentified White male on the parking lot of the Rainbow Market on Mission Boulevard in Hayward, California on November 19, 1988. Garecht had ridden her bicycle with a friend, the two blocks from her home to the store. When they came out of the store, the friend's scooter had been moved. Garecht saw the scooter in the parking lot and was lured to the kidnapper. He grabbed her and threw her, screaming, into his car while her friend watched. The friend ran into the store for help. The car sped off.

The car the kidnapper was driving was described to police as a large older model American-made sedan, gold or tan in color, in ratty condition, possibly a four-door. The car may have had cement splattered on the sides, and lights set into the rear bumper. It was last seen speeding south on Mission Boulevard toward the nearby Union City border.

The abductor is described as having long, dirty blonde hair; a slender build; and a pockmarked or pimpled face. He was approximately 18 - 24 years old at the time of Garecht's abduction. A sketch of her abductor is below:

Sketch of Abductor can be seen at below link.

Investigators

If you have any information concerning Garecht's whereabouts or the identity of her abductor, please contact:
Hayward Police Department 510-293-7272
All information may be submitted on an anonymous basis.


Agency Case Number: 88112127
NCMEC #: NCMC717172
NCIC Number: M-566376392

Please refer to these numbers when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.

Source Information:

The National Center For Missing and Exploited Children
CA DOJ
The Doe Network: Case File 181DFCA

LINK:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/181dfca.html

 

[Richard]

Hey Richard.

I came across this case and can't help but notice some important similarities.
I found that you originally posted this in 2007 under the "Missing But Not Forgotten";
"1980's"--Case of Michaela.

Now that 7 more years have past and LLW and RAW, Sr. are, POI's along with the whereabouts chart we have for LLW, what are your thoughts about the case now?...

... LINK:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/181dfca.html

I did start the Michaela Garecht thread back in 2007. She went missing in 1988 from Hayward, California. There are indeed some similarities between her case and that of the Lyon Sisters, particularly in her description and between the description of her suspected abductor and Lloyd Welch.

I am not certain where Lloyd was at that time, or if he ever was in California. There is a 13 year difference and a continent of distance between the two cases. However, the similarities are interesting.

 

[Richard]

FBI involvement

I noticed an excerpt from "News Advance" in Lynchburg, Virginia that the FBI named LLW as a POI.
Were they initially involved in that, back in February 2014?
Was the FBI involved because LLW had convictions from multiple states?

The FBI has assisted MCP in the past with the Lyon Case, but they have never been in charge of the investigation, until February 2014 when they did a joint press conference with MCP. As I understand it both agencies are now cooperating openly in the investigation.


I am not certain just why the FBI became involved in the case at this time. They COULD have joined or taken over the invistigation at any time in the past, but did not. It may be that they were brought in by MCP when multiple state jurisdictions were identified - those being Maryland and Virginia, if not also others.


The fact that Lloyd Welch traveled extensively would not have been cause or reason for the FBI to step in. There have been other previous potential suspcts (in the Lyon Case) who also traveled through other states, but interest in them did not bring the FBI into the case.


That the girls may have been abducted in Maryland and transported to Virginia has always been a possibility, but it may be that MCP had evidence of this and therefor called upon the FBI. The FBI has a tip line which was mentioned in the same press conference that identified Lloyd Welch as a POI.

 

[steveP120]

Court System: DISTRICT COURT FOR MONTGOMERY COUNTY (ROCKVILLE) - TRAFFIC SYSTEM
Citation Number: 0000004479046Case Status:ACTIVE CASE
Violation Date: 03/06/1979 Violation Time: 06:15 PM
Violation County: MONTGOMERY COUNTY (ROCKVILLE)
District Code: 06 Location Code: 01
AgencyName:MCP - 1ST DISTRICT
Officer ID:0919
Defendant Information

Defendant Name:WELCH, LLOYD LEE
Address:18407 LOSTKNIFE CIR #202
City: GAITHERSBURGState:MDZip Code:20760
Race:WHITE,CAUCASIAN,ASIATIC INDIAN,ARAB

I am fairly sure that "Race:WHITE,CAUCASIAN,ASIATIC INDIAN,ARAB" is a wide category for all four "races" and not a statement Lloyd was or looked Arab. I being a white guy, checked categories like that when filling out government forms.

In prior to the 1960s when being black would get you discriminated against, light-skin blacks often tried to "pass" as Arabs, who were nearly white in the eyes of white society. If anything, having such wide categories shows the folly of such racial classifications. Is President Obama black, half-black, or half white?

But Lloyd's ticket for driving without a license does show that he did know how to drive and how to borrow a car in 1979.

 

[steveP120]

The second post in the "Tape Recorder Thread" is Richard's transcription of The Washington Star article from April 3, 1975, authored by Mary Ann Kuhn and Rebecca Leet. It mentions that Jimmy's friend also saw the tape recorder man (though, unlike Jimmy, he heard nothing while Jimmy heard TRM ask "Are any of you two involved in sports?"(and heard nothing else):



It also mentions that after seeing the sketch which Pfc. Davis Morton made from Jimmy's description of TRM, four women came forward:



I believe TRM was really there that day.....

I always thought Tape Recorder Man was there that day, but I never did hear or think of any good way that his talking openly in public could be part of a seduction or abduction. As far as we know, all the the tape recorder men broke off contact after talking and did not ask the girls to do anything but talk.

Even idiot Lloyd Welch had a natural way of getting more sexual with girls; just talk to them, offer them something to smoke or drink.

 

[Richard]

... ... But Lloyd's ticket for driving without a license does show that he did know how to drive and how to borrow a car in 1979.

Actually, one could argue that the traffic ticket proves he really didn't know how to drive a car. Obviously, he was pulled over for some traffic violation and then found to have no drivers license. Also, if you might notice that the car's owner was listed as a subpoenaed witness - so possibly Lloyd "borrowed" the car without asking. Note also that the case is STILL OPEN - so Lloyd probably failed to show up for the trial.

Information provided by MCP in their press conferences indicates that Lloyd was mostly a hitchhiker and walker in 1975. If he didn't have a driver's license in 1979, he probably didn't have one in 1975 either. Just my opinion, but I feel that if Lloyd had been driving a car prior to 1979, there would have been quite a few more traffic citations on his record.

 

[simplifymylife2014]

Actually, one could argue that the traffic ticket proves he really didn't know how to drive a car. Obviously, he was pulled over for some traffic violation and then found to have no drivers license. Also, if you might notice that the car's owner was listed as a subpoenaed witness - so possibly Lloyd "borrowed" the car without asking. Note also that the case is STILL OPEN - so Lloyd probably failed to show up for the trial.

Information provided by MCP in their press conferences indicates that Lloyd was mostly a hitchhiker and walker in 1975. If he didn't have a driver's license in 1979, he probably didn't have one in 1975 either. Just my opinion, but I feel that if Lloyd had been driving a car prior to 1979, there would have been quite a few more traffic citations on his record.

Richard, good observations!

I also noticed that he got stopped right by his address.

Wondered if he stole the vehicle, even though it's not stated.
He already had a theft record from 1976.

Wonder if the police were keeping an eye on him near his residence at the time.

 

[simplifymylife2014]

Has anyone noticed in your research, if AFTER LLW was incarcerated in Delaware, did crime patterns seem to stop?

 

[simplifymylife2014]

This is a MUST-SEE VIDEO OF LLW TIMELINE!!!
10-24-14 Link from Angela Hatcher's Twitter

WATCH THIS VIDEO!!!

http://fb.me/3SkISXauJ

 

[Motherof5]

Actually, one could argue that the traffic ticket proves he really didn't know how to drive a car. Obviously, he was pulled over for some traffic violation and then found to have no drivers license. Also, if you might notice that the car's owner was listed as a subpoenaed witness - so possibly Lloyd "borrowed" the car without asking. Note also that the case is STILL OPEN - so Lloyd probably failed to show up for the trial.

Information provided by MCP in their press conferences indicates that Lloyd was mostly a hitchhiker and walker in 1975. If he didn't have a driver's license in 1979, he probably didn't have one in 1975 either. Just my opinion, but I feel that if Lloyd had been driving a car prior to 1979, there would have been quite a few more traffic citations on his record.

I don't think so. Thousands of people get pulled over for traffic violations and that does not mean that they don't know how to drive a car.


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[beachlvr0810]

I don't know enough about Mr. Walker or his case but would agree with you that search dogs would have helped. Not sure if they were used?


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If any of you are interested in the James Davis Walker case, his son just joined us on WS and made his first post on his father's thread.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...een-7-April-2000&highlight=James+Davis+Walker

 

[simplifymylife2014]

If any of you are interested in the James Davis Walker case, his son just joined us on WS and made his first post on his father's thread.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...een-7-April-2000&highlight=James+Davis+Walker

beachlvr0810: I was wondering, are you under a gag order regarding the Lyon sisters case?
Thank you in advance for answering.