long weekend break: discuss the latest here #102

[AuburnSchnauzer]

This perfectly explains what is going on in Jodi's mind. She was a psychopathic stalker.

http://psychopathyawareness.wordpress.com/2012/04/17/psychopaths-and-stalking/

Here are a few "bullet" points we learn:

After the victim ends a relationship with a psychopath, this behavior is likely to escalate into downright stalking. This happens for the reasons I have explained in previous articles:

1) psychopaths, being control-driven individuals, can’t take rejection

2) psychopaths, being control-driven, also don’t like to relinquish control over their targets

3) psychopaths, being control-driven, want to WIN. To them, winning means catching their targets into their spider’s nets and destroying them

4) psychopaths, being control-driven, want to exact vengeance and intimidate those who no longer worship them, want them, or obey them blindly.

____________
Thanks again, MeeBee

 

[katydid23]

Getting the DV to convince the jury of that relies on a couple things. 1. they have to believe Jodi's lies about Travis (they clearly don't) and 2. they have to be able to put the overwhelming evidence of premeditation, including her lie on the stand about a third gas can, aside. If this jury comes to the conclusion that this was premeditated, and that what she says about Travis cannot be trusted, and that his death was particularly cruel and heinous, then they will have no choice but to give her murder in the first degree. I am so not worried about LaViolette.

Thank you for talking me off the ledge. :giggle:

I totally agree with you but my big brother scared me a bit. He is a trial lawyer but does not do criminal law. Mostly medical cases and PI. But he reminded me what my father knew, which was that every jury has potentially ONE sympathetic ear. My dad was a defense attorney and did the occasional murder trial, but hated it. [ hated murder trials, not being an atty]

My bro and I both worked for my dad's firm during our college years. I watched a lot of jury selection and watched a lot of verdicts. And it never ceased to amaze me how surprising juries can be.

Granted, this state has the juror questions, which give a real good indication overall. But there can easily be one or two that are harboring some sympathy that LaViolette can build upon. You can have ten solid votes for DP, but if two are going with reasonable doubt, then you can end up with a manslaughter verdict.

 

[MeeBee]

:twocents: Theory, here's why:

1. She was "compassionate" :aka: Doc Samuels
2. He didn't take no for an answer, how did the pics get taken on Jun4/08?

You have got it backwards my friend.

 

[Allyne Smithe]

Have a few questions:

1) Has the gun that was used to shoot TA been found? If so, I haven't seen a picture of it.

What kind of gun was allegedly stolen from the grandfather's house? Is it possibly to get a rough estimate of the firing pin of that gun and match it to the casing found at the crime scene?

2) Did TA have .25 ACP ammo in the house? There's back and forth the she brought the gun, and her allegedly using a gun that Travis owns. There is a picture in evidence of .22lr and .22 mag ammo, but where is that picture taken.

3) Does the grandfather have .25 ACP ammo in the house, and if so, does it match the casing found at the crime scene?

4) Do any of the knives found in the house match the profile of the wounds in TA? (In other words, did she bring her own knife? Was she planning on just using the gun?)

5) Are there any side view pictures of the casing? IMO, it would be preferable to shoot TA first as using a knife for the initial attack would be easier for the victim to defend. I understand the casing is on top of blood, but could have been displaced during the altercation. If it was displaced, there may be blood on the sides of the casing in which we can't see from an aerial view. The entry is also angled, right to left downward. Possibly shot when TA was sitting in the shower.

6) Why would there be pictures of him and then apx one minute later the camera is in the hallway during all of this? Did she have the camera in her hand the whole time while stabbing him?

7) There's tassel from a pillow on the staircase, and talk about a knife was used to cut rope. Where is that knife, any rope residue on the knife? and where is the rope?

1) The gun has never been recovered, but the gun 'stolen' from her grandfather's house was a black automatic or semi-automatic .25 gun 3" x 4" loaded with 7 hollow-point bullets. Prosecutor Martinez said the bullets were manufactured by Winchester.

2) No ammunition was found in TA's house.

3) We have not heard anything about ammunition recovered from the grandfather's house, if any.

4) Reportedly none of the knives at TA's house match the suspected murder weapon. I strongly suspect she brought it with her as her main weapon, a typical "up close and personal" method. IMO she used the gun to control TA the 8 minutes he was in the shower 'posing' for her final photos of him. I do think she tried to take a shot of TA after the first stab, but he pushed back so all that was captured was the ceiling.

From the description in the autopsy report, the knife imo would have to have a triangular blade, like a typical chef's knife. I've attached a sample here showing the points on the blade that correspond to a 3/4" stab, a 1" stab, a 1 1/4" stab, a 1 1/2" stab, and a 1 3/4" stab. The knife wouldn't have to be as long as the one in the photo, but it would have to be at least as long as the 1 3/4" width mark in the photo to inflict the 1 3/4" wide (by 5 3/4" deep) wound. The blade made two triangular chips to TA's skull, so it had to be strong enough to cut through bone.

The tape at the 1 3/4" width of the blade corresponds to the wound on TA's abdomen, which was 1 3/4" wide by 5 3/4" deep. That corresponds exactly to the knife pictured, where the 1 3/4" width occurs at the 5 3/4" depth. The tape at the 1 1/2" point corresponds exactly to the first stab wound, a 1 1/2" wide by 3 1/2" deep stab to the heart. That also corresponds exactly to the knife pictured.


5) No side views of the casing that I know of, but if there had been blood on the sides of the bullet casing, that most likely would already be known. So- red herring, imo. The ME testified that the gunshot was not fired at close range as there would have been stippling on the skin, and further, he believed the gunshot was inflicted after TA was already dead, because he saw no evidence of bleeding.

6) The camera had to be in her hand at the time the ceiling photo was snapped as Detective Melendez testified the photo was snapped when the camera was at least 2 or 3 feet above the ground. The shutter can't go off by itself in mid-air, imo. It's believed she had already stabbed him at least once (and possibly more, imo) when that photo was snapped, when he had begun to push back.

Detective Melendez testified the last two photos were snapped while the camera was on the floor, upside down. He demonstrated how the shutter could be activated by the slightest pressure from anywhere on the back of the camera. Thus, JA accidentally took them with her foot.

7) The rope story is JA's. There has been no evidence a rope was used that day or ever. JA took the knife with her, so she's the only one who can answer that question.

 

[MeeBee]

Here are a few "bullet" points we learn:

After the victim ends a relationship with a psychopath, this behavior is likely to escalate into downright stalking. This happens for the reasons I have explained in previous articles:

1) psychopaths, being control-driven individuals, can’t take rejection

2) psychopaths, being control-driven, also don’t like to relinquish control over their targets

3) psychopaths, being control-driven, want to WIN. To them, winning means catching their targets into their spider’s nets and destroying them

4) psychopaths, being control-driven, want to exact vengeance and intimidate those who no longer worship them, want them, or obey them blindly.

____________
Thanks again, MeeBee

And when she realized she was never going to WIN Travis, she decided no one else would either. This is Jodi. She is a psychopathic stalker. No sympathy for the devil.

 

[garthmax]

I just wanted to share what I posted on another thread ( View inside the court)


Quote:
Originally Posted by kssgdby View Post
According to Jeffrey Gold an attorney on Twitter, the protective order motion was to keep Defense Billings from being made public.


the thrilling thing about this to me as a "new" sleuther is that I witnessed on this site/group of extraordinary people from all walks of life/ professions/ life experiences..the magic when someone here has the scoop.

WS'er Karmady, in response to enquiring minds here at WS went to the courthouse, did the research and got the scoop. Yay WS!!

It is amazing how everyone here is open minded, bring ideas, what they've read, heard , theorized etc and this community, in very little time, without judgement, and often due to insiders, like our AZ friends at the moment, synthesizes the info, breaks it down and arrives at answers or newer, better directions. I'm so happy to be here
Edit/Delete Message

Why keep it public? or will it be released after trial?

 

[garthmax]

1) The gun has never been recovered, but the gun 'stolen' from her grandfather's house was a black automatic or semi-automatic .25 gun 3" x 4" loaded with 7 hollow-point bullets. Prosecutor Martinez said the bullets were manufactured by Winchester.

2) No ammunition was found in TA's house.

3) We have not heard anything about ammunition recovered from the grandfather's house, if any.

4) Reportedly none of the knives at TA's house match the suspected murder weapon. I strongly suspect she brought it with her as her main weapon, a typical "up close and personal" method. IMO she used the gun to control TA the 8 minutes he was in the shower 'posing' for her final photos of him. I do think she tried to take a shot of TA after the first stab, but he pushed back so all that was captured was the ceiling. From the description in the autopsy report, the knife imo would have to have a triangular blade, like a typical chef's knife. I've attached a sample here showing the points on the blade that correspond to a 3/4" stab, a 1" stab, a 1 1/4" stab, a 1 1/2" stab, and a 1 3/4" stab. The knife wouldn't have to be as long as the one in the photo, but it would have to be at least as long as to inflict the 1 3/4" wide (by 5 3/4" deep) wound. The blade made two triangular chips to TA's skull, so it had to be strong enough to cut through bone.

The tape at the 1 3/4" width of the blade corresponds to the wound on TA's abdomen, which was 1 3/4" wide by 5 3/4" deep. That corresponds exactly to the knife pictured, where the 1 3/4" width occurs at the 5 3/4" depth. The tape at the 1 1/2" point corresponds exactly to the first stab wound, a 1 1/2" wide by 3 1/2" deep stab to the heart. That also corresponds exactly to the knife pictured.
View attachment 31069

5) No side views of the casing that I know of, but if there had been blood on the sides of the bullet casing, that most likely would already be known. So- red herring, imo. The ME testified that the gunshot was not fired at close range as there would have been stippling on the skin, and further, he believed the gunshot was inflicted after TA was already dead, because he saw no evidence of bleeding.

6) The camera had to be in her hand at the time the ceiling photo was snapped as Detective Melendez testified the photo was snapped when the camera was at least 2 or 3 feet above the ground. The shutter can't go off by itself in mid-air, imo. It's believed she had already stabbed him at once when that photo was snapped, that he had begun to push back.

Detective Melendez testified the last two photos were snapped while the camera was on the floor, upside down. He demonstrated how the shutter could be activated by the slightest pressure from anywhere on the back of the camera. Thus, JA accidentally took them with her foot.

7) The rope story is JA's. There has been no evidence a rope was used that day or ever. JA took the knife with her, so she's the only one who can answer that question.

Did JA Grandfather have any bullets at his house and did they match the brand of bullet that killed TA?

 

[fran]

I don't know anymore. I am actually kind of worried, for the first time. I just had dinner with my older brother, an attorney. We briefly talked about this case, and I was saying how confident I was, because the DT has not and will not be able to prove Self Defense.

My bro said 'so what ?'. They are probably not even really aiming for that. A great strategy is sometimes to 'hide the ball in the laundry basket', as he calls it. You get the state to spend time and energy arguing against 'self defense' and so they feel confident in their position. Meanwhile the DT slowly builds a legal foundation for something else, and gets the judge to include the lesser charges.

So for example, if they can get the DV expert to convince the jury that Jodi was a true victim of violence, then the battered woman syndrome creeps up.
And they try to get one or two sympathetic jurors to believe that JA was a silent victim and snapped when he came at her once again. It is not a true self defense strategy, it is more like a ' self defense at first but then I snapped from the constant abuse and committed overkill.'

It could come out of nowhere if they play it right.

I understand where your brother is coming from, but the jury are made of REAL people. They have relationships, past and present, relatives, friends, life isn't as behind closed doors as much as it was in years gone by. Heck, when I was in my 20's, I'd never heard of child abuse or pedophiles and didn't know that I actually knew people that were being abused. Of course once I learned of it, I recognized the signs and kicked myself for not seeing or knowing. I never heard of an abusive relationship but have now seen many, including in real life. (thank goodness I was lucky!)

But the jury isn't as sheltered and uninformed as they used to be.

I've seen many TH's say the point of the defense team is trying to save her life. IF they can't get a lessor charge, they want to make her more human in the juror's eyes. Put a voice to her. That's why she testified. To at the least, NOT get the DP.

At first I thought the jurors may have been on her side, but after the other day and the questions to that doctor, I don't think so. They've got her number and they're not buying it. IMHO, the defense team is wasting their money on a domestic violence expert. Because this jury KNOWS JA lies.

Garbage in, garbage out.

She'll be found guilty, I'm almost certain. DP? I dunno and don't care. Once she's behind bars, she's out of society and out of my mind.

Keep the faith!

JMHO
fran

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

And when she realized she was never going to WIN Travis, she decided no one else would either. This is Jodi. She is a psychopathic stalker. No sympathy for the devil.

100% Agree - I have always said this. She was living in some dreamworld, and when she realized that "Dream" was gone - She ended the dream.

 

[katydid23]

What constant abuse? There was none from Travis. Only from Jodi towards Travis. The "mean texts" he sent here were well-deserved. He was trying to get rid of her and she doesn't take no for an answer. Besides, manslaughter isn't being considered here, nor heat of passion, and that's totally overlooking all the evidence of premeditation. Has your brother been closely following this case, or is he only arguing theory?

He is mostly arguing theory. Not following the case closely at all.

But in the end, when the judge gives the final instructions, she CAN decide to include the lesser charges. And the defense can ask her to do so IF they have built a solid legal foundation for them. And I think that might be what they are trying to do.

I agree with you about the premeditation. The state has to nail that tight. If he gets the Walmart people to testify to NO gas can return and the gas station receipts are proven to be gas purchases, and if he can show that Jodi first told LaViolette that TA was looking at lil boys ON HIS COMPUTER, then it is end of story, imo.

I am just saying that they don't have to prove an outright self defense in order to pull a win out of this. JMO

 

[Sweetiemom]

http://media.bonnint.net/az/30/3079/307924.jpg

Creepy or pathetic?

YIKES! She looks like Stephen King! :what:

 

[MeeBee]

100% Agree - I have always said this. She was living in some dreamworld, and when she realized that world was gone - She ended the dream.

Something that was really telling about this dream she had built was in those torn out journal pages she magically found. These were written long after they'd broken up and he'd clearly moved on but she writes as if they are still together, gets on to him for "cheating" on her. She probably did see him dating others as cheating on her. That was all in her sick head because they weren't together. She says he desperately wants to marry her but she will not because he's not right. That's just delusional. We know she was the one that wanted to marry him and if he wanted to marry her, he would have. She flipped it in her mind to preserve her delicate ego. He doesn't want her, but in her journal, the reason they aren't together is because he really, really wants her and she's the one rejecting him. She could not stand him not wanting her and boiled up into a murderous rage. Again, no sympathy for the devil, nope.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

Good night buoys and gulls, I know this will be hard to believe, but I really do need my beauty sleep. :bedtime:

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

Did JA Grandfather have any bullets at his house and did they match the brand of bullet that killed TA?

Why is it I recall .25 caliber bullets WERE found at JA's Mother's house? True?

 

[katydid23]

Something that was really telling about this dream she had built was in those torn out journal pages she magically found. These were written long after they'd broken up and he'd clearly moved on but she writes as if they are still together, gets on to him for "cheating" on her. She probably did see him dating others as cheating on her. That was all in her sick head because they weren't together. She says he desperately wants to marry her but she will not because he's not right. That's just delusional. We know she was the one that wanted to marry him and if he wanted to marry her, he would have. She flipped it in her mind to preserve her delicate ego. He doesn't want her, but in her journal, the reason they aren't together is because he really, really wants her and she's the one rejecting him. She could not stand him not wanting her and boiled up into a murderous rage. Again, no sympathy for the devil, nope.

I know. **shudder** It is freaky.

I was watching the police tape with Flores, when she was trying to convince him she never went into Arizona. Yea, sure. :liar:

Anyway, Flores asks her if she was jealous that TA was dating, and she said that it was Travis that was the jealous one. :liar:

And she tries to convince Flores that TA wanted her to move back to Mesa, after they had broken up, so 'they could still hang out and stuff.' :liar:

 

[pferrin]

Since Arizona tax payers are paying the bill for the defense team this should be public knowledge ...now the PO is just more bs. Now they are hiding their garbage

 

[Allyne Smithe]

Very interesting post. Can you tell how you can determine JA's goals and other characteristics from her handwriting? I have worked with two people over the years that were narcissist and had handwriting similar to JA.

Low goals is shown by very low T-bars. People with high goals make their T-bars higher up, sometimes even above the stem.

The first two things that jumped out at me when I saw JA's writing was her lowercase d. Not only did she make a loop-within-a-loop in the round part--and at least once left part of it open, signifying she was pretending to be 'open' while sneakily setting a trap--and her looped d stem. The looped d stem signifies sensitivity to criticism and wish to be flattered. She's dishonest and manipulative.

I'm still going through my graphoanalysis books to complete an analysis, but a handwriting expert put a good, though abbreviated, analysis of JA's writing on YouTube. The expert offers viewers a free analysis through the end of March. I'd take her up on it but I already know my characteristics (and flaws). btw when Bibles were written by hand, it was monks who first associated handwriting with personal characteristics and discovered handwriting was almost like a brain print.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcY3SoP3jk4

 

[LadyEdith]

i'm distracted by the optical illusion of nurmi having a flaacid mowhawk.

one thing i like about nancy grace is she's very biased (towards what i think haha). these days she's making me laugh with some of the stuff she says and her reaction to her unleashed lawyers.

signed the petition. that would be most excellent if it passed!

"Flaccid Mohawk". You have a way with words. I think he could work a flaccid mohawk. It certainly wouldn't detract from his appearance.

 

[Kensie]

Something that was really telling about this dream she had built was in those torn out journal pages she magically found. These were written long after they'd broken up and he'd clearly moved on but she writes as if they are still together, gets on to him for "cheating" on her. She probably did see him dating others as cheating on her. That was all in her sick head because they weren't together. She says he desperately wants to marry her but she will not because he's not right. That's just delusional. We know she was the one that wanted to marry him and if he wanted to marry her, he would have. She flipped it in her mind to preserve her delicate ego. He doesn't want her, but in her journal, the reason they aren't together is because he really, really wants her and she's the one rejecting him. She could not stand him not wanting her and boiled up into a murderous rage. Again, no sympathy for the devil, nope.

You took the words right out of mouth. Actually you stated this a lot better than I could ever do. Good post.

 

[CourtsInSession]

DAY 20 at 0:37:50 on You Tube:

Nurmi: After you have cleaned yourself up and dispose of the gun and the
rope, what do you do next?

JA: I um I start looking around for um the charger that I didn't that I thought
I lost because Matt hadn't answered his phone until he was there.

Please listen to this portion of the video of Day 20. Did she say that Matt was there?