Luka Magotta AKA Eric Newman Trial, Week beginning Oct 27, 2014 - Trial Thread #3

[Kamille]

Yeah, that's what gets me... From what we've heard from his psychiatrist so far, he's shown no real remorse. If someone committed such an awful crime whilst psychotic and would never dream of doing such a think whilst sane, then I would expect them to have crippling remorse afterwards once they were sane and lucid again. Probably even to become suicidal. The testimony from his current psychiatrist just sickened me - he was just whinging on about himself rather than saying what have I done?? I'm a monster! Could I do something like that again?? Can can I keep people safe from myself? How can I live with myself knowing what I did??

So are we looking more at bi polar with some psychopathic tendencies thrown in for good measure? More like a Jodi Arias type? She certainly has no remorse.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Oh and he sure wasn't minimizing to the German doctor. He was throwing out everything he could think of over there. After his arrest. When he needed to lay down a good defense.

MOO

 

[Tiger09]

The thing is......I don't think LM is a Jodi Arias type. I think LM really has a mental illness and doesn't know anything but how to be a victim or a bully. It's possibly how he survived growing up. But he never fully grew up. He never thrived. Does this mean he's NCR? No way. He knew what he was doing, but I don't think he, with supervision, therapy, and medication will kill again. I believe he would thrive in prison, meaning he would not as is said become a better criminal. I still feel for the victim's family. I hope they get peace soon.

 

[maxfactor]

I wonder if the first Psychiatrist he saw at the prison in Quebec ( Talbot??)will be a rebuttal witness for the Crown.That would be interesting.

 

[Rayemonde]

I don't think he's a JA type either... JA seems to know exactly what she is doing and she seems very calculating and smug. I think that she enjoyed killing Travis because he made her angry and she wanted revenge, she enjoyed playing games with the police and enjoyed making up lies about Travis to further upset his family.

Whereas LM seems to be a very unhappy person who genuinely believes that he is a victim. His aunt said that he lies and makes up stories to get attention but then ends up believing them. He has this pathological need for attention, but then when he gets attention he doesn't seem to enjoy it.

I do think he is very dangerous though, and no amount of therapy or meds will make him safe. Schizophrenia symptoms can respond well to meds and therapy, but personality disorders usually don't. It's his underlying personality that makes him dangerous and not any mental illness he may have on top of that IMO.

 

[Rayemonde]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ly-found-eating-his-22-year-old-victim-s-face

There's another schizophrenia/ substance abuse/ murder/ cannibalism case in the media ATM if anyone's interested, but this one seems to be a more typical spur-of-the-moment act, not an intricately planned murder like LM's.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

TRIAL CONTINUES - MONDAY 10 NOVEMBER, 2014:

https://twitter.com/sleeCJAD

 

[andreww]

Not sure if they've been allowed to have an expert of their own examine LM. But they can certainly do everything else, including studying the events around the crime instead of dwelling on past history which is pretty sketchy and you can bet they'll point that out.

I haven't seen one reporter who is sympathetic to LM after listening to testimony but I admit I don't try to read the stories in the French press and the reporters may either be cynical or reporting in a way that engages the majority. Because I think the majority in this country believe he is guilty of first degree murder and are very wary of the NCR defense.

MOO

I think that there is a general feeling amongst the masses that someone who is found NCR, got away with it. People know 100% that LM did it and they want to see him punished to the fullest extent, whether he was mentally ill or not. People simply don't understand mental illness, and they will always assume the defendant is faking it.

Not sure about LM one way or another, but the press will always be biased in that regard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[andreww]

btw, if he's been faking schizophrenia for attention i believe that would be classed as Munchausen's syndrome not malingering, and Munchausen's is a mental illness in its own right. But faking schizophrenia for benefit money or to get out of trouble would be classed as malingering. Of course, he may well do both.

If you look at Magnotta over the past decade you will begin to see a pattern of behaviour. He started spreading rumours about himself being involved with Homolka via the internet, then used the mainstream press to garner attention. Then he started posting the kitten killing videos via the net, then again used the press to get more notoriety. Then he moved up to killing people, which eventually made him the most famous man on the net for a short period as time. There seems to be a pattern of him anonamously posting damning info about himself on the internet, then using the notoriety to come forward as himself and deny it. Does that constitute schizophrenia? Is LM in fact two people, Manny and himself? Manny does the evil, Luka acts the victim?

IMO it would probably take years of sessions to get an accurate read on this guy.

 

[Rayemonde]

No, if he had two or more different personalities - LM and Manny - that would be Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality Disorder), not schizophrenia. DID is a pretty controversial diagnosis, and many psychiatrists don't think it even exists.

 

[Rayemonde]

You're right about his pattern of behaviour though, and it goes right back to his 2005 court case where he committed identity fraud to get credit cards and then apparently was genuinely terrified that his victim's father was going to get revenge on him. And his posting adverts asking for someone to rape and abuse him, but then apparently having a terrible fear of being raped.

 

[Kamille]

amy minsky ‏@amyminsky · 31m31 minutes ago
Hey gang, I'm back on the #Magnotta trial. Defence witness Dr. Allard, who examined Magnotta once extradited to Canada, continues today.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 6m6 minutes ago
Judge has arrived. #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 2m2 minutes ago
I am in #Magnotta. We're just waiting for the jury.

 

[Kamille]

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 5m5 minutes ago
Legal housecleaning first. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Getting the jury. #Magnotta

Domenic Fazioli ‏@DomenicFazioli · 2m2 minutes ago
It's Day 25 at the Luka #Magnotta trial. We're starting week 7. We're almost done

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
#Magnotta trial-Day 25 starts now. #CJAD

 

[Kamille]

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Psychiatrist Dr. Marie-Frédérique Allard is back on the stand. She evaluated Luka #Magnotta for his criminal responsibility.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
She testified that #Magnotta is schizophrenic and his illness was responsible for the crimes. She said he could not tell right from wrong.

amy minsky ‏@amyminsky · 1m1 minute ago
Allard’s has told the court #Magnotta’s perception of reality was skewed in May 2012 when he killed Jun Lin ...

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Defence says he'll file reports related to his client. Hands over piles of documents to court clerk. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 43s44 seconds ago
Judge gets his own stack of the reports. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 28s29 seconds ago
Jury will also get electronic copies. #Magnotta

 

[Kamille]

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 44s45 seconds ago
Defence continues questions to Dr. Marie-Frédérique Allard. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Lindsay Ross Memorial Hospital, Toronto East Gen Hospital reports. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Pertinent for her? Witness says #Magnotta was seen by psych. March 26, 2002.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
#Magnotta diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, heard male voices, local police, FBI after him.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
#Magnotta thought people could hear his thoughts.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 1m1 minute ago
In 2002, #Magnotta told a psych he thought the FBI was after him. Grandma wanted him to stay in group home for youth w psych probs

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Was mentioned that #Magnotta should be placed in group home.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 2m2 minutes ago
#Magnotta said he didn't have any other illnesses. Didn't have panic attacks or mania, PTSD. Drank 1 glass wine or bubbly @ xmas

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 2m2 minutes ago
Didn't smoke pot or use cocaine. But took sleeping pills and anti psychotics. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Took various meds for anti psychosis and sleeping. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
#Magnotta had said his dad also suffered from schizophrenia.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
NO history of suicide in family, #Magnotta had said.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 1m1 minute ago
Appt was March 25, 2002. #Magnotta talked about his father's schizophrenia and alcoholism. Mom home schooled him till gr 6

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 48s49 seconds ago
#Magnotta psych exam: well dressed, coherent, cooperative, not sad, not happy, "normal".

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 36s37 seconds ago
But #Magnotta had little facial expression no matter the topic. Not suicidal, no hallucinations.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 40s40 seconds ago
#Magnotta wasn't suicidal during the 2002 evaluation. Didn't show any emotion. He was able to say he was mentally ill

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 52s53 seconds ago
#Magnotta aware of his illness, in order to be treated.

amy minsky ‏@amyminsky · 47s47 seconds ago
The psychiatrist didn't observe any suicidal thoughts, but noted a blunted affect in #Magnotta.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 58s58 seconds ago
Psych said #Magnotta was schizoprenic, no personality disorders.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 54s55 seconds ago
Psych looked at poss of personality disorder. Diagnosis was schizophrenic, no personality disorder. Stressors: unemployed in TO #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 56s57 seconds ago
Stress factors: living in TO with no job. #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 3m3 minutes ago
#Magnotta wasn't functioning at very high level at that time (2002). Taking anti psychotics

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Med adjustments in the weeks prior and following. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
June 21: #Magnotta last meeting with this psych.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
File closed, #Magnotta seen by another psych afterwards.

 

[Kamille]

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Scarborough Gen Hospital report. #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 1m1 minute ago
#Magnotta saw his dad's psych in July, 2002 when he was 20. Was in Scarborough.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 54s55 seconds ago
#Magnotta said PROZAC made him sick, took other meds.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 50s51 seconds ago
#Magnotta diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia in remission, no psychotic episodes but other symptoms.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 45s46 seconds ago
Was prescribed anti depressant. Doc diagnoses paranoid schizophrenia but said there were no symptoms at time #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
People in remission believe their thoughts are being read by others, influenced by external force. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 53s53 seconds ago
Negative symptoms: no expression, don't talk much. #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 32s32 seconds ago
Schizophrenics can have other symptoms other than hallucinations that prevent them from working or living alone #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
So even if no delirium or psychotic episodes, can still be handicapped by other symptoms. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
That was July 15, 2002 report. A later evaluation had #Magnotta going through a major psychotic episode. Meds increased.

amy minsky ‏@amyminsky · 2m2 minutes ago
July '02 report found #Magnotta was in remission. Nov '02, psych wrote patient had major psychiatric disorder and condition had deteriorated

 

[Kamille]

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
Rouge Valley Center report next. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
March 6, 2003: #Magnotta seen by psych in ER. Confused, hard to concentrate, felt people tape recording, watching him.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Psych notes #Magnotta had paranoid schizophrenia. Heard voices. Frightened, agitated, agreed to be inpatient.

amy minsky ‏@amyminsky · 45s46 seconds ago
In March '03, #Magnotta went to emergency and say dad's psych dr again. Dr. wrote the patient was confused, unable to concentrate ...

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Psych plan: injectable anti psychotic med. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Good option for youths when not sure if they're taking the meds, witness says. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
#Magnotta treated at hospital March 6-18.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
#Magnotta said didn't like hospital but became more calm, slept more.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
March 8: #Magnotta more anxious, saying people watching him.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
March 10: #Magnotta says someone watching him thru window. March13: more such claims, anxious, paranoid.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
March 15:#Magnotta said he wanted to go home.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
March 18: #Magnotta released.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
No symptoms,more focussed, stayed isolated, low mood, Diagnosis=Paranoid schizophrenia. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
March 25: #Magnotta rehospitalized. Psychotic symptoms.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 57s57 seconds ago
#Magnotta said being watched by roommates. "Taking away his thoughts." Heard voices.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 56s56 seconds ago
Said roommates watched him by video. Couldn't take it anymore, #Magnotta had said.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 36s36 seconds ago
#Magnotta low energy, others described him as irritable, panic attacks.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 54s55 seconds ago
#Magnotta was Cooperative, hard to remember events, not suicidal.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
#Magnotta hospitalized March 25-April 7. Mar 27,he said roommates installed cameras to watch him.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Feared roommates told psych #Magnotta was taking crack. Heard whispers but knew were hallucinations so not concerned.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
In following days, #Magnotta couldn't take voices any more, people watching him.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
March 31: case manager said #Magnotta didn't want to return home. Agitated by voices. Still paranoid that people talking about him.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 1m1 minute ago
In March 2003, #Magnotta admitted himself to hospital, wanting to kill himself but not able to because of mom

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
April 2-4: #Magnotta said still not ready to go home.People filming him. April 6: still paranoid, people watching him through window.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 1m1 minute ago
April 6, 2003 closed the curtains cause thought someone was watching him #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
April 7: #Magnotta leaves hospital.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 24s25 seconds ago
Last appointment Oct 2008. Saw same psych 2002-2008. #Magnotta

 

[Kamille]

Well these reports are certainly going to help his case. I think we've definitely got a case of paranoid schizophrenia here. Now whether he was in a psychotic state for the weeks leading up to the murder will still have to be determined I suppose. :waitasec:

Not to mention the email he sent to that London reporter 6 months prior.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Sept 14, 2004: #Magnotta accused of fraud. Psych asked for letter to confirm he was patient treated for paranoid schizophrenia.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 1m1 minute ago
2004, #magnotta accused of fraud. In April 2005, his mother wrote to psych to say she was very concerned about his mental health

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 1m1 minute ago
#Magnotta treated for 6 years by same Ont. psychiatrist (2002-08). In 2003, Dr described him as "full of paranoid delusion" but not violent.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 53s54 seconds ago
#Magnotta mom told psych worried about son pending criminal charges: paranoid, anxious, distressed.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 1m1 minute ago
May 30, 2005, psych wrote #Magnotta's lawyer at time, Peter Scully, to say client suffered from paranoid schizophrenia

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 40s40 seconds ago
May 30, 2005 note: #Magnotta still taking meds, last time seen Feb 25, 2005.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Psych noted #Magnotta missed appointments and not taking meds regularly.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 1m1 minute ago
Psych told lawyer that #Magnotta had been hospitalized twice in 2003. Said he missed meds because didn't come to outpatient appts

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 1m1 minute ago
Allard, who is testifying, says not unusual for young patients to miss their meds #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Psych noted if #Magnotta not taking meds regularly, concerned symptoms would return: paranoia, voices.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 56s56 seconds ago
June 2005: found guilty of criminal charges. Psych said he encouraged #Magnotta to take meds.

 

[Kamille]

So the fact that he had committed this crime was not blamed on his schizophrenia but the pending criminal trial was bringing on symptoms again?

Is that what I'm reading here? So confused. :scared: