Luka Magotta AKA Eric Newman Trial, Week Nov 20, 2014 - Trial Thread #4

[Kamille]

From Dr. Watts report:

Mr. Magnotta stated that he was on welfare and then began receiving Ontario Disability Support Program (ODSP) payments due to his mental health problems at the age of 18 or 19. During his twenties, he moved cities a few times, for example to New York City in 2008 and then back to Toronto in 2010. Upon returning to Toronto he sought out his ODSP payments again. When Mr. Magnotta moved to Montreal in March of 2011, he was able to obtain equivalent disability payments through the Quebec government. His psychiatrist in Toronto, Dr. Weinstein, wrote a letter helping him to obtain these benefits.

And yet from the same report...

Dr. Robert Weinstein summarized Mr. Magnotta’s history of mental health problems at some length in a psychiatric consultation on October 26
th 2009.

In January 2007, he told Dr. Sooriabalan that he had started to do some modeling, had stopped his ODSP, and was happy with what he was doing.

I'm only on page 34 out of 124 and I've already found about 4 inconsistencies just in the report. Not to mention the testimony at the trial compared to the report. I believe it was stated in the trial that LM had requested to go off ODSP at some point? That's not what it says in Dr. Watts report.

MOO

http://www.scribd.com/doc/246900421/Psychiatric-assessment-of-Magnotta

 

[Kamille]

From Dr. Watts report...

I asked Mr. Magnotta if he had ever had cosmetic surgery. He replied that he had had a hair transplant and showed me the scars from this on the back of his head. He also had “Juvaderm” injections in his face and he has had his teeth whitened. Mr. Magnotta admitted that he exaggerated the extent of his cosmetic surgeries in video auditions for a reality TV show.

From the same report...

He told Dr. Weinstein that he had had several minor cosmetic surgery procedures on his face as well as reconstruction of his nose.

These discrepancies just keeping coming out all through the report. He lies so much I'm not even sure HE knows what the truth is. :notgood:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/246900421/Psychiatric-assessment-of-Magnotta

 

[Kamille]

From Dr. Watts report....

Mr. Magnotta told Dr. Weinstein in 2009 that his stepfather (Leo) had been physically and sexually abusive towards him. Mr. Magnotta had called the police on a couple of occasions due to the abuse and his mother had “begged” him not to talk to the police about anything sexual. At about the age of 15, he could not handle living with his mother and Leo anymore and he went to live briefly with his father. He then went to move in with friends moved around from place to place. He said that he spent time in Los Angeles and New York and had gotten into the adult film industry.

Also from the report...

Mr. Magnotta’s sister, Melissa, informed me that the children and their mother moved into their maternal grandmother Phyllis’s basement after their parents separated and father left when Mr. Magnotta was about nine or ten years old. Later, they moved into an apartment along with his mother’s boyfriend, Leo, in Toronto. Mr. Magnotta went to live with his grandmother Phyllis when he was 16 years old to escape the verbal and physical abuse of his mother’s boyfriend Leo.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/246900421/Psychiatric-assessment-of-Magnotta

 

[Kamille]

No, This was well before that. And he never used his scizophrenia as an excuse afaik. His Dr did write a letter to the court as mitigation for the sentence, but LM's mother arranged that - LM had stopped going to his psych appointments for his injections and she wrote to his Dr and said she was really worried about him because he was so stressed out about the upcoming trial and was showing schizophrenia symptoms again.



No, this was before all that. This roomate was a roomate at Harrison House, the home for people with severe mental illness. They were pretty closely monitored there and had strict rules, I really doubt he would have got away with smoking crack in his room without being kicked out!

According to Dr. Watts report, he didn't go back to Harrison House until at least June of 2003 so we still have no idea what roommate was going to tell the doctors he was on crack.

On May 23rd 2003, Dr. Sooriabalan wrote a letter to a Mr. Horton of Harrison House, a group home where Mr. Magnotta later resided for a second time. Dr. Sooriabalan mentioned that Mr. Magnotta was “full of paranoid delusions and hearing voices when he is ill.” He was not violent and did not abuse drugs or alcohol according Dr. Sooriabalan.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/246900421/Psychiatric-assessment-of-Magnotta

 

[Kamille]

In February 2005, Mr. Magnotta mentioned that he was living with his father and felt that he was being followed. He commented, “This black Mercedes, I see this car everywhere.”

http://www.scribd.com/doc/246900421/Psychiatric-assessment-of-Magnotta

Lucky for his Dad he didn't decide to act out against the "black car" at this time. :waitasec:

 

[Kamille]

And again more confusion...

Mr. Magnotta was referred to the CMHA supportive housing program for the second time, in March of 2003. He initially said that he wanted to move back to Harrison House in the Lindsay area to be closer to his family because his grandmother lived in the area. At the time he was living in a group home in Toronto run by Habitat Services. He had been living with friends but had become overwhelmed and had been admitted to hospital. These records noted that Mr. Magnotta had been employed in grocery stores for couple of months previously and had not been employed since. He reported some relationship difficulties between himself and his mother’s new partner. Mr. Magnotta noted that he used Telecare (a health care telephone service) late at night when he was feeling unwell but tended not to follow through with his medical appointments. He had difficulty socializing because he felt paranoid and believed that other people were out to hurt him. Mr. Magnotta commented to CMHA and Harrison House workers that he had been in a special class in school and that the “kids did not tease me but I did not like it.” It was noted that he had poor insight into to his mental illness during his psychotic episodes and that he had difficulty socializing in groups. Mr. Magnotta commented in a letter he wrote to Harrison House that when he had left previously, he was “not feeling well and not thinking straight.” At times, he believed that other tenants were trying to “make me come up as crazy or paranoid but I am not, I feel perfectly fine.” He specifically complained about one other tenant who was, according to Mr. Magnotta, physically violent and threatening to him. Mr. Magnotta left Harrison House for the second time in March 2003. During his time there, he was observed to have been quite ill. He again had erratic behaviours including calling the office staff phone with messages indicating he believed that he was being persecuted or aliens were attacking or someone had broken into his room through the window. He expressed the desire to move back to Toronto to get away from family and friends.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/246900421/Psychiatric-assessment-of-Magnotta

With reports like this that are as clear as mud, how can anyone possibly figure out what LM was really up to all those years? :gaah:

MOO

 

[Kamille]

The "Manny" story starts on page 40 and is unbelievable. He even claimed he went to a psychiatrist in New York and got a new prescription. Not surprisingly, no psychiatrist has come forward (not to mention no psychiatrist would just prescribe medication with no history).

http://www.scribd.com/doc/246900421/Psychiatric-assessment-of-Magnotta

 

[Rayemonde]

According to Dr. Watts report, he didn't go back to Harrison House until at least June of 2003 so we still have no idea what roommate was going to tell the doctors he was on crack.

On May 23rd 2003, Dr. Sooriabalan wrote a letter to a Mr. Horton of Harrison House, a group home where Mr. Magnotta later resided for a second time. Dr. Sooriabalan mentioned that Mr. Magnotta was “full of paranoid delusions and hearing voices when he is ill.” He was not violent and did not abuse drugs or alcohol according Dr. Sooriabalan.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/246900421/Psychiatric-assessment-of-Magnotta

I saw somewhere in the report that he was in a different home for people with mental illnesses before he moved back to Harrison House? You're right, without the actual paperwork from Harrison House it's not clear from Dr Watts report exactly when LM was there. I hope someone will upload other documents from the case.

 

[Rayemonde]

At the time he was living in a group home in Toronto run by Habitat Services. He had been living with friends but had become overwhelmed and had been admitted to hospital.

Ah yes, that's what I remembered seeing. I do have it in my head that he was in a group home at the time of the crack comment, but I can't find the original tweet at the moment to check.

BTW there is a description of one of LM's police interrogations in Dr Watts' report! The police DID attempt to interview him. But he just whinged about being "sick in the head" and complained that his stomach hurt - totally obvious from the description why the police thought he was putting it on. Another police interrogation that lasted several hours is mentioned in the report but is not described. I hope the videos of these police interviews will be released after the trial - I don't think the jury has seen them either.

However, the report mentions how LM told Dr Watts about confessing to where JL's head was!

Mr. Magnotta
added that he had wanted to tell the police where Mr. Lin’s head was because he did not
want Mr. Lin’s mother to suffer; he knew “it was important to her, to her peace of mind.”
He explained that initially, he was exercising his right to remain silent. During his police
interview on June 18th and 19th, he was “very close to snapping, having a breakdown.”
The guards in the jail were making derogatory comments to him at the time and
“everyone” was making his life difficult while he had still not revealed the location.
Later, when asked to reveal where Mr. Lin’s head was, he experienced a great deal of
anxiety and it was hard for him to go over the details because he did not want to think
about what had happened. He felt better after he had given the information.
(Page 93).

 

[Rayemonde]

Found it!! From the tweets, it looks like LM was in the psychiatric hospital when he said he was worried his roomate might say he was on crack.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
March 25: #Magnotta rehospitalized. Psychotic symptoms.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 57s57 seconds ago
#Magnotta said being watched by roommates. "Taking away his thoughts." Heard voices.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 56s56 seconds ago
Said roommates watched him by video. Couldn't take it anymore, #Magnotta had said.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 36s36 seconds ago
#Magnotta low energy, others described him as irritable, panic attacks.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 54s55 seconds ago
#Magnotta was Cooperative, hard to remember events, not suicidal.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
#Magnotta hospitalized March 25-April 7. Mar 27,he said roommates installed cameras to watch him.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Feared roommates told psych #Magnotta was taking crack. Heard whispers but knew were hallucinations so not concerned.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
In following days, #Magnotta couldn't take voices any more, people watching him.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
March 31: case manager said #Magnotta didn't want to return home. Agitated by voices. Still paranoid that people talking about him.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

TRIAL CONTINUES (I THINK. HAVEN'T BEEN INTO IT MUCH THIS WEEK.) - THURSDAY 4 DECEMBER, 2014


:jail::jail::jail::jail::jail:

ETA:

May I please add a rather naive question? How did the doctor's notes get onto here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/246900421/...nt-of-Magnotta

Who would have made them public? In other words, could MY/YOUR doctor's info about me/you end up on the internet?

Any/all responses are welcome.

Thanks........

 

[Rayemonde]

TRIAL CONTINUES (I THINK. HAVEN'T BEEN INTO IT MUCH THIS WEEK.) - THURSDAY 4 DECEMBER, 2014


:jail::jail::jail::jail::jail:

ETA:

May I please add a rather naive question? How did the doctor's notes get onto here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/246900421/...nt-of-Magnotta

Who would have made them public? In other words, could MY/YOUR doctor's info about me/you end up on the internet?

Any/all responses are welcome.

Thanks........

They're not actually his medical records, it's a forensic assessment. Watts wasn't actually treating LM. And Dr Watts got got LM to agree that his report would be non-confidential before he spoke to him - if you look at the report, it starts with a statement of non-confidentiality and says that Magnotta agreed to this when Watts first met him in Berlin.
The journalists got copies of all the forensic assessments, so one of them must have put it up. Hopefully someone will put up Allard's and Chamberland's too.

However, the court did get copies of all LM's medical records throughout the years as well, I'm not sure if the journalists got to see them but the jury has copies of everything I think. And copies of LM's dad's medical records too; he must have signed something agreeing to them being released.
But there must be special rules about confidentiality of medical reports if you're going to plead NCR to a murder... I have no idea what exactly, but it would seem very unjust if no information about LM's medical history was released during his trial! That would make it a secret trial.

I wonder if they can redact certain info that isn't relevant though, eg. if LM wanted the parts about his erectile dysfunction or STD tests to be kept out of the public domain. Or if he HAD been HIV positive, I wonder if that could be kept confidential.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

They're not actually his medical records, it's a forensic assessment. Watts wasn't actually treating LM. And Dr Watts got got LM to agree that his report would be non-confidential before he spoke to him - if you look at the report, it starts with a statement of non-confidentiality and says that Magnotta agreed to this when Watts first met him in Berlin.
The journalists got copies of all the forensic assessments, so one of them must have put it up. Hopefully someone will put up Allard's and Chamberland's too.

However, the court did get copies of all LM's medical records throughout the years as well, I'm not sure if the journalists got to see them but the jury has copies of everything I think. And copies of LM's dad's medical records too; he must have signed something agreeing to them being released.
But there must be special rules about confidentiality of medical reports if you're going to plead NCR to a murder... I have no idea what exactly, but it would seem very unjust if no information about LM's medical history was released during his trial! That would make it a secret trial.

I wonder if they can redact certain info that isn't relevant though, eg. if LM wanted the parts about his erectile dysfunction or STD tests to be kept out of the public domain. Or if he HAD been HIV positive, I wonder if that could be kept confidential.

Thanks so much. :tyou:

 

[matou]

Is court in session?

 

[Kamille]

Is court in session?

They're starting at 11am today.

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 26m26 minutes ago
#Magnotta trial is sitting today...the jury has been called for 11h.

 

[Kamille]

Ah yes, that's what I remembered seeing. I do have it in my head that he was in a group home at the time of the crack comment, but I can't find the original tweet at the moment to check.

BTW there is a description of one of LM's police interrogations in Dr Watts' report! The police DID attempt to interview him. But he just whinged about being "sick in the head" and complained that his stomach hurt - totally obvious from the description why the police thought he was putting it on. Another police interrogation that lasted several hours is mentioned in the report but is not described. I hope the videos of these police interviews will be released after the trial - I don't think the jury has seen them either.

However, the report mentions how LM told Dr Watts about confessing to where JL's head was!

Mr. Magnotta
added that he had wanted to tell the police where Mr. Lin’s head was because he did not
want Mr. Lin’s mother to suffer; he knew “it was important to her, to her peace of mind.”
He explained that initially, he was exercising his right to remain silent. During his police
interview on June 18th and 19th, he was “very close to snapping, having a breakdown.”
The guards in the jail were making derogatory comments to him at the time and
“everyone” was making his life difficult while he had still not revealed the location.
Later, when asked to reveal where Mr. Lin’s head was, he experienced a great deal of
anxiety and it was hard for him to go over the details because he did not want to think
about what had happened. He felt better after he had given the information.
(Page 93).

What a piece of work. He starts out claiming that he wants to tell where the head is for JL's mother's sake and immediately goes into how it is causing HIM anxiety and how it made HIM feel better.

He is so far from NCR in this murder it's a wonder that was ever an option for his defence. As a juror, all I would need to do is read through those reports and the all about ME ME ME, crapola and blatant lies/discrepancies running all through those reports to be quite fine with sentencing him to the maximum penalty under the law. And throw in a dangerous offender status too for good measure. This guy can't be "fixed". His problems are personality based and there is no amount of medication that's going to change that IMO.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 2m2 minutes ago
Procès #Magnotta reprend devant jury. La défense a eu l'autorisation de présenter une réplique à la contre-preuve de la Couronne

Translation: #Magnotta Trial resumes before a jury. The defense was allowed to submit a reply to the evidence against - Crown

Michaël Nguyen ‏@MNguyenJDM · 1m1 minute ago
Dans une procédure rarissime, la défense est autorisée à faire entendre à nouveaux ses experts. #Magnotta

Translation: In a rare procedure , the defense is entitled to bring in new experts. #Magnotta

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 2m2 minutes ago
Le juge explique au jury que cette réplique de la défense est permise lorsque nouveaux enjeux ont été soulevés en contre-preuve #Magnotta

Translation: The judge explained to the jury that this repeat of the defense is permitted when new issues were raised against evidence - #Magnotta

Michaël Nguyen ‏@MNguyenJDM · 2m2 minutes ago
Premier témoin de la contre-contre-preuve : Dr Joel Watts. #Magnotta

Translation: First witness in the surrebuttal : Dr Joel Watts #Magnotta

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 3m3 minutes ago
#Magnotta jury enters. Judge explains defence will call its experts to address new issues that came out of crown's rebuttal. Dr. Watts 1st.

 

[Kamille]

I knew there was no way the defence was going to leave it as is. So here we go again. Another 6 days of rehashing medical reports?

I've started reading the report LeClair. Hopefully if the jury does nothing else, they read it too. It's very enlightening.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Michaël Nguyen ‏@MNguyenJDM · 3m3 minutes ago
En 2001, #Magnotta avait été hospitalisé pour overdose de drogue. Mais drogue médicale, pas drogue de rue, souligne le Dr Watts.

Translation: In 2001, #Magnotta had been hospitalized for drug overdose. But medical drugs, not street drugs , said Dr. Watts

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 35s35 seconds ago
Defence asks Watts about #Magnotta 2001 hospital record. Psychiatrist says "Drug OD" diagnosis refers to prescription drugs, not street drugs

(by the way, the report also states that LM was drug tested in Miami and no drugs were found there either)

Michaël Nguyen ‏@MNguyenJDM · 2m2 minutes ago
Commander une pizza n'est pas incompatible avec la paranoïa, note le Dr Watts. #Magnotta

Translation: Ordering a pizza is not incompatible with paranoia, notes Dr. Watts . #Magnotta

(really Dr Watts? Got any examples of anyone else who has done this? What if the pizza delivery guy was driving a black car? )

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 2m2 minutes ago
Watts says #Magnotta ordering pizza in hours after killing is not inconsistent with paranoid thoughts about the government.

Michaël Nguyen ‏@MNguyenJDM · 2m2 minutes ago
Dans la pop générale, c'est très commun d'avoir des fantasmes sado-maso. 15% environ. Tabou mais courant, note l'expert. #Magnotta

Translation: In the general pop , it is very common to have sadomasochistic fantasies. About 15%. Taboo but current, notes the expert. #Magnotta

(and what percent of those people plan to cut up humans and put the tape on the internet?)

christianedesjardins ‏@chridesjardins · 29s29 seconds ago
#Magnotta n'entre pas ds catégorie des sadiques sexuels, selon le Dr Watts.

Translation: #Magnotta is not in the category of sexual sadists , according to Dr. Watts .

(WHAT?!? )

 

[Kamille]

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 1m1 minute ago
Watts does not believe #Magnotta has sexual sadism or sexual masochism disorder. He is not a psychopath, witness says.

christianedesjardins ‏@chridesjardins · 47s47 seconds ago
C'est très courant que des psychiatres ne soient pas d'accord avec des collègues, expliquer le dr Joel Watts. #Magnotta

Translation: It's very common for psychiatrists not to agree with colleagues, explained Dr. Joel Watts . #Magnotta

(meaning it's not an exact science. It's a crapshoot IMO)

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 43s44 seconds ago
Watts: It's wrong to say psychiatrists will simply rubber stamp previous diagnoses, but weight added if many docs have same view. #Magnotta

(looks like a lot of rubber stamping went on in LM's past. No one did a complete assessment of him including verifying if he was telling the truth)

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 1m1 minute ago
Fin du 2e témoignage du Dr Watts. La défense appelle à la barre son autre expert en psychiatrie légale, Marie-Frédérique Allard #Magnotta

Translation: End of 2nd testimony of Dr. Watts . The defense called to the stand the other expert in forensic psychiatry, Marie-Frédérique Allard #Magnotta

christianedesjardins ‏@chridesjardins · 2m2 minutes ago
En 2001, #Magnotta avait été admis pour overdose à hôpital Ross Memorial. Overdose de Temazepam. Il avait pris bouteille au complet

Translation: In 2001, #Magnotta was admitted to overdose at Ross Memorial Hospital. Overdose of Temazepam . He took full bottle

(did we know he took Temazepam for his "overdose"? That seems to be his "go to" drug of choice)

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 2m2 minutes ago
Defence's other forensic expert, Dr. Allard is now on the stand (again). Leclair asking her same questions he asked of Watts. #Magnotta

Michaël Nguyen ‏@MNguyenJDM · 3m3 minutes ago
La Dr Allard se fait poser les même questions que le Dr Watts. Ses réponses sont similaires. #Magnotta

Translation: Dr. Allard is asked the same question as Dr. Watts . Her answers are similar. #Magnotta

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 47s47 seconds ago
Allard also says she did not identify sexual sadism in #Magnotta, nor an antisocial personality disorder, says he's not a psychopath.