MA MA - Caleigh Harrison, 2, Rockport, 19 April 2012

[capoly]

I figure it was ok to post since I had seen it posted elsewhere.

If I'm wrong about the sex offenders living in the area, then I apologize. Even if it's just their grandmother who does I'm sure they visit her and are familiar with the area.

I completely agree with you about the public fb posts. As far as the man in the store, if it scared her that bad I don't understand why she didn't tell a store employee or contact the police about it right away. What if he had followed her out of the store and done something?

You were not wrong about the sex offenders (sorry if I came across that way)...just wanted to add on to your information re relative. It wouldn't be the first time an offender committed a crime while visiting an unsuspecting relative.

 

[terracotta]

No, a description was not known...only the incident was relayed. Since the mother was present during the store incident, and aware of the older child's drawing etc.....well, :banghead:

Yes I understand. The thing is that I drove through Gloucester at 545pm the day she went missing and saw a couple with a little girl. She was dressed as Caleigh was described and she looked to be that age. I slowed and looked three times over at them because the woman was carrying the girl and she looked like she was having trouble...like she was too heavy. Anyway I thought it was odd that the guy wasn't helping her....

And...the description that Lizzie gave...is the description I gave to the police when I called. Just is odd. But I told the uncle about what I had seen....and that was when he asked me what he was wearing....and the guy I saw had dark long shorts on....and that is what he had said was in Lizzie's drawing. Anyway I thought that they might have some cameras around town to see if they could capture the couple I saw. I thought if someone took her why would they hang around town with her....and the uncle agreed...but stranger things have happened.

 

[capoly]

Yes I understand. The thing is that I drove through Gloucester at 545pm the day she went missing and saw a couple with a little girl. She was dressed as Caleigh was described and she looked to be that age. I slowed and looked three times over at them because the woman was carrying the girl and she looked like she was having trouble...like she was too heavy. Anyway I thought it was odd that the guy wasn't helping her....

And...the description that Lizzie gave...is the description I gave to the police when I called. Just is odd. But I told the uncle about what I had seen....and that was when he asked me what he was wearing....and the guy I saw had dark long shorts on....and that is what he had said was in Lizzie's drawing. Anyway I thought that they might have some cameras around town to see if they could capture the couple I saw. I thought if someone took her why would they hang around town with her....and the uncle agreed...but stranger things have happened.

If I am recalling correctly, terrcotta, you spoke with the uncle early on, didn't you?

Am just going to spit this out.....90% of me wants to give up on this case. There are too many 'Caylee Anthony' aspects to it. Just the name/age similarities between Caleigh and Caylee strike me as odd. And wasn't it Nancy Grace who spoke the name Caylee as if it were 'Callie'?

The mother was scared of a stranger's attention to her child yet continues to post the child's daily movements to her FB page which was set to public viewing.

The child goes missing and suddenly FB is off limits when it comes to public awareness re finding the child. A person puts up a FB page is threaten with arrest. Considering a family member is with the MA State Police....guess a threat of arrest would be taken seriously.

It takes 2 weeks for the mother to speak out publicly and when she does I'd be hard put to know she was speaking about her missing child.

On Nancy Grace, and even during local interview, no mention of the store incident. And, imo, mother wasn't very supportive of the father re abduction theory.

Etc..etc....Shock is shock but damn.... :banghead:

 

[terracotta]

If I am recalling correctly, terrcotta, you spoke with the uncle early on, didn't you?

Am just going to spit this out.....90% of me wants to give up on this case. There are too many 'Caylee Anthony' aspects to it. Just the name/age similarities between Caleigh and Caylee strike me as odd. And wasn't it Nancy Grace who spoke the name Caylee as if it were 'Callie'?

The mother was scared of a stranger's attention to her child yet continues to post the child's daily movements to her FB page which was set to public viewing.

The child goes missing and suddenly FB is off limits when it comes to public awareness re finding the child. A person puts up a FB page is threaten with arrest. Considering a family member is with the MA State Police....guess a threat of arrest would be taken seriously.

It takes 2 weeks for the mother to speak out publicly and when she does I'd be hard put to know she was speaking about her missing child.

On Nancy Grace, and even during local interview, no mention of the store incident. And, imo, mother wasn't very supportive of the father re abduction theory.

Etc..etc....Shock is shock but damn.... :banghead:

You make really good points. I believe if the mom was actually worried about someone showing an odd interest in her girl, she would be vigilant about caring for her and keeping her safe. Do you think maybe the story is exaggerated at this point...thinking back maybe she is making more of it than it was. Would it not be very profound to leave your groceries and take your kids out of store? It would seem that it would have been one of the first things she brought up on the first days this happened. And she wouldn't have been quiet about it, if she had a description. IMO

The FB incidents about pages is just odd as is not mentioning the store incident. My thoughts on those was that after she went missing, the family got a lot of "advice" and maybe they just shut off communication because of all the publicity.

In my heart, I believe that the mom believes Caleigh is in the ocean. I do as well. I think everything else could just be the rest of the family pushing for answers and "what ifs". It is a big ocean and there are a lot of places along the shoreline that have not been checked. I have a little island in front of my house in the ocean...and who knows what is washed up there. I'm a few miles south of Long Beach. There are a lot of nooks and crannies.

I don't believe either parent was trying to do something hinky. It was just a terrible tragedy. I believe Lizzie's first response of immediately when she was gone. Arms up in the air...like I don't know. If it were a person she would have pointed. But that is my two cents. IMO and all that. I'm sad for everyone involved.

 

[capoly]

You make really good points. I believe if the mom was actually worried about someone showing an odd interest in her girl, she would be vigilant about caring for her and keeping her safe. Do you think maybe the story is exaggerated at this point...thinking back maybe she is making more of it than it was. Would it not be very profound to leave your groceries and take your kids out of store? It would seem that it would have been one of the first things she brought up on the first days this happened. And she wouldn't have been quiet about it, if she had a description. IMO

The FB incidents about pages is just odd as is not mentioning the store incident. My thoughts on those was that after she went missing, the family got a lot of "advice" and maybe they just shut off communication because of all the publicity.

In my heart, I believe that the mom believes Caleigh is in the ocean. I do as well. I think everything else could just be the rest of the family pushing for answers and "what ifs". It is a big ocean and there are a lot of places along the shoreline that have not been checked. I have a little island in front of my house in the ocean...and who knows what is washed up there. I'm a few miles south of Long Beach. There are a lot of nooks and crannies.

I don't believe either parent was trying to do something hinky. It was just a terrible tragedy. I believe Lizzie's first response of immediately when she was gone. Arms up in the air...like I don't know. If it were a person she would have pointed. But that is my two cents. IMO and all that. I'm sad for everyone involved.

Have leaned towards believing what you write but sometimes people just talk too much. After the Nancy Grace interview, was more or less accepting that the incident was an accident. But the local interview came about and parts of it just didn't mesh...like this:

"Hammond recalls the day she took her girls to the beach. She specifically chose Long Beach because she thought it was safer than the other local beaches with the boardwalk and the rocks acting as natural barrier from the water."
http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/18...-harrisons-mother-determined-to-find-daughter

Allison's grandmother had a cottage in the vicinity so she was familiar with Long Beach. But to say the boardwalk/rocks made it safer than other beaches? The girls weren't left on the boardwalk and the rocks were irrelevant considering the tide. My understanding was that Good Harbor beach was the safer beach and the one that Allison frequented with the children up until recently.

http://g.co/maps/76swz

Perhaps, terracotta, being that you are local, youmight be able to say why anyone would say Long Beach is safer then Good Harbor? I don't see it when comparing via Google pics.

 

[capoly]

And then there is this....

"Hammond says her girls were by the water, which was at high tide. Hammond was on the boardwalk."

"She also told FOX 25: "I don't want to say I regret the day entirely. The time that we had that day was fantastic up until the moment I returned my back."

http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/18...pens-up-about-missing-daughter?obref=obinsite


According to family, going to the beach was not a novelty. Maybe I'm too sentimental but if a typical day at the beach ended with my child missing....am pretty sure the word 'fantastic' would not be used to describe any part of that day.

I, too, think Caleigh was swept out to sea. Just back to feeling uneasy about the circumstances.

 

[terracotta]

That is an interesting quote. When I read it I thought the exact opposite. Good Harbor is where I walk everyday. At high tide it has a deep sandy beach, at low tide it has a wonderfully large tidal flat for the dogs to run. It is a very flat and wide beach. The five days prior to Caleigh going missing, it was warm and the beaches were packed with people. Good Harbor was just crazy, it was like busy summer days. I had to keep counting all my dogs to make sure I kept them with me because there were so many people by the water. So many people were swimming even though the water was chilly, it was down right hot out. But that day she went missing, the winds kicked up and it was about 10 degrees cooler, so the beaches were much less populated.

It doesn't make sense that you would choose Long Beach over Good Harbor for safety reasons. IMO Good Harbor is a much safer option.

I wonder if there were other circumstances that she just didn't mention of why she decided on Long Beach that day.

Okay Capoly if you keep this up I'm going to have to jump up on that fence again. lol

 

[capoly]

That is an interesting quote. When I read it I thought the exact opposite. Good Harbor is where I walk everyday. At high tide it has a deep sandy beach, at low tide it has a wonderfully large tidal flat for the dogs to run. It is a very flat and wide beach. The five days prior to Caleigh going missing, it was warm and the beaches were packed with people. Good Harbor was just crazy, it was like busy summer days. I had to keep counting all my dogs to make sure I kept them with me because there were so many people by the water. So many people were swimming even though the water was chilly, it was down right hot out. But that day she went missing, the winds kicked up and it was about 10 degrees cooler, so the beaches were much less populated.

It doesn't make sense that you would choose Long Beach over Good Harbor for safety reasons. IMO Good Harbor is a much safer option.

I wonder if there were other circumstances that she just didn't mention of why she decided on Long Beach that day.

Okay Capoly if you keep this up I'm going to have to jump up on that fence again. lol

Wish I wasn't back on it. Just isn't logical that she would say such a thing when it was my understanding that she frequented Good Harbor based on her knowledge of it being the safer beach.


Have to add this.....after all the reading, asking questions, getting answers from knowledgeable people. If Caleigh had been swept away off Good Harbor beach it seems the likelihood of recovery would have been higher due to its cove like structure, winds blowing towards land etc. Not so off of Long Beach. Is very disturbing.

 

[terracotta]

And then there is this....

"Hammond says her girls were by the water, which was at high tide. Hammond was on the boardwalk."

"She also told FOX 25: "I don't want to say I regret the day entirely. The time that we had that day was fantastic up until the moment I returned my back."

http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/18...pens-up-about-missing-daughter?obref=obinsite


According to family, going to the beach was not a novelty. Maybe I'm too sentimental but if a typical day at the beach ended with my child missing....am pretty sure the word 'fantastic' would not be used to describe any part of that day.

I, too, think Caleigh was swept out to sea. Just back to feeling uneasy about the circumstances.

I timed how long it would take to walk from where she left the girls, across the beach, up the stairs and then back down the boardwalk to the first house. Walking normally, in no hurry, it took 70 seconds, depending if she stopped when she spoke with them it would be longer. If she was looking under the decks for the ball she would be up there for minutes doing that.

I watched that video again, it is really odd that she still holds the day as fantastic, up until that point. On the pollyana side, maybe she wants to remember the fun they had on their last day together. I agree with you, it wouldn't be the way I would describe it. The lack of emotion as she discusses it of course is odd. But maybe she is on anti anxiety's or something.

Oh and to add to the safeness of the beaches. If she walked up on the boardwalk, there is a metal railing there with a 10 foot drop, so it would be difficult to walk up there unless she was holding hands with Caleigh. So she was walking on the beach, not on the boardwalk, so that wouldn't have anything to do with safety.

 

[capoly]

I timed how long it would take to walk from where she left the girls, across the beach, up the stairs and then back down the boardwalk to the first house. Walking normally, in no hurry, it took 70 seconds, depending if she stopped when she spoke with them it would be longer. If she was looking under the decks for the ball she would be up there for minutes doing that.

I watched that video again, it is really odd that she still holds the day as fantastic, up until that point. On the pollyana side, maybe she wants to remember the fun they had on their last day together. I agree with you, it wouldn't be the way I would describe it. The lack of emotion as she discusses it of course is odd. But maybe she is on anti anxiety's or something.

Oh and to add to the safeness of the beaches. If she walked up on the boardwalk, there is a metal railing there with a 10 foot drop, so it would be difficult to walk up there unless she was holding hands with Caleigh. So she was walking on the beach, not on the boardwalk, so that wouldn't have anything to do with safety.

(my bold)

Right. She had told Nancy Grace that they were walking on the beach, the girls were running in and out of water, and she was throwing the ball for the dog to fetch. So why would she bring the boardwalk into play re safety? Even mentioning rocks re safety didn't make sense. Did she mean the Cape Hedge rocks at the end of Saratoga Creek?

Something doesn't add up. Do hope she is getting some help in dealing with the before and after aspects of this incident.

 

[tiredblondy]

Gosh you guys have a lot of info and excellent points. The first thing I'd do is have someone make a sketch of the man in the grocery store!

If it were me I'd go to LE again and tell them about the couple you saw. It is very interesting the 4 yr old drew black shorts instead of black pants. I just can't believe this is a coincidence.

 

[capoly]

When I went to Long Beach, 5 days after she went missing, I spoke with the uncle. At that time he said that the sister had drawn a picture of a man in black shorts.

Yes I understand. The thing is that I drove through Gloucester at 545pm the day she went missing and saw a couple with a little girl. She was dressed as Caleigh was described and she looked to be that age. I slowed and looked three times over at them because the woman was carrying the girl and she looked like she was having trouble...like she was too heavy. Anyway I thought it was odd that the guy wasn't helping her....

And...the description that Lizzie gave...is the description I gave to the police when I called. Just is odd. But I told the uncle about what I had seen....and that was when he asked me what he was wearing....and the guy I saw had dark long shorts on....and that is what he had said was in Lizzie's drawing. Anyway I thought that they might have some cameras around town to see if they could capture the couple I saw. I thought if someone took her why would they hang around town with her....and the uncle agreed...but stranger things have happened.

If I am comprehending your posts correctly, terracotta, than you saw this couple the evening of the day Caleigh went missing, informed/described to police the couple, some days after that you saw the uncle, described to him the man, and he told you your description was similar to Lizzy's?

I also knew of Lizzy's drawing prior to its being made public. (sorry, dog jumped on keyboard) Believe the drawing was done about 4 days after Caleigh went missing, but she would not draw for officer so it was dismissed (my understanding).

 

[capoly]

Gosh you guys have a lot of info and excellent points. The first thing I'd do is have someone make a sketch of the man in the grocery store!

If it were me I'd go to LE again and tell them about the couple you saw. It is very interesting the 4 yr old drew black shorts instead of black pants. I just can't believe this is a coincidence.

Re man in grocery store: Mipato is new to Websleuths. It sounded like she got that information from another on-line site (as written by a family member). It is the same information that was given me in a conversation with family member.

Trouble is there seems to be an exchange of information within the family that is just being believed at face value, as is the reason for it not being made public. Not sure when it reached LE but it appears to not have been in a timely manner that would have made it believable to LE.

 

[writer7]

The little girl can't tell what happened because her parents will get mad at her? Coupled with the demeanor of the parents -- the mom, mainly -- I just can't get over feeling that the mother and surviving daughter both know more than they are saying.

For me, it's not that it couldn't have been an accident. I agree that an accident would make complete sense, albeit being a dumb thing to do. It's that they really aren't behaving like that's what happened. IMO, of course.

 

[terracotta]

If I am comprehending your posts correctly, terracotta, than you saw this couple the evening of the day Caleigh went missing, informed/described to police the couple, some days after that you saw the uncle, described to him the man, and he told you your description was similar to Lizzy's?

I also knew of Lizzy's drawing prior to its being made public. (sorry, dog jumped on keyboard) Believe the drawing was done about 4 days after Caleigh went missing, but she would not draw for officer so it was dismissed (my understanding).

Yes, you are correct. I saw the couple that day, would have been 5 hours after she went missing. I called the police a couple days later, when they had not recovered her. Even when I spoke with police they said they are taking tips but really the focus is on the water.

When I spoke with the uncle he just told me that she had drawn a picture and asked me what the man was wearing. I told him my description. Until I saw the sister's description did I see that is was quite similar to mine. I didn't ask him anything else about her description. He just told me about the black shorts. There was a lot going on that day so I couldn't really gently ask all my questions. It felt it was intruding...so I didn't want to be pushy.

 

[terracotta]

Re man in grocery store: Mipato is new to Websleuths. It sounded like she got that information from another on-line site (as written by a family member). It is the same information that was given me in a conversation with family member.

Trouble is there seems to be an exchange of information within the family that is just being believed at face value, as is the reason for it not being made public. Not sure when it reached LE but it appears to not have been in a timely manner that would have made it believable to LE.

Did the family discount the store incident because it happened awhile ago? or they just don't think it happened? Or they think it was exaggerated?

 

[terracotta]

The little girl can't tell what happened because her parents will get mad at her? Coupled with the demeanor of the parents -- the mom, mainly -- I just can't get over feeling that the mother and surviving daughter both know more than they are saying.

For me, it's not that it couldn't have been an accident. I agree that an accident would make complete sense, albeit being a dumb thing to do. It's that they really aren't behaving like that's what happened. IMO, of course.

Do you think the sister just doesn't know and everyone is asking her what happened so she thinks that she is suppose to know, and therefore feels bad that she can't give any answers. She probably wants to please and maybe they got mad at her at the beginning out of frustration that she didn't see what happened. I can imagine with her being the only witness as to what happened that they were questioning her intensely at the beginning.

I think a good point was made up thread as well. What if the girls were fighting over one of the sand toys and she pushed Caleigh and she fell into the water. Then she walks away with the toy and resumes playing. So it could have been just a normal playing...she got the toy and ran away, Caleigh followed and slipped in the water. Could be quite a few scenarios that have her not actually seeing what happened, but maybe she wouldn't want to say that she took the toy away, or pushed her.

 

[capoly]

Did the family discount the store incident because it happened awhile ago? or they just don't think it happened? Or they think it was exaggerated?

I was told it had happened the week prior to Caleigh going missing. Think you are likely to agree that is not a long time when talking of an abduction.

 

[capoly]

Yes, you are correct. I saw the couple that day, would have been 5 hours after she went missing. I called the police a couple days later, when they had not recovered her. Even when I spoke with police they said they are taking tips but really the focus is on the water.

When I spoke with the uncle he just told me that she had drawn a picture and asked me what the man was wearing. I told him my description. Until I saw the sister's description did I see that is was quite similar to mine. I didn't ask him anything else about her description. He just told me about the black shorts. There was a lot going on that day so I couldn't really gently ask all my questions. It felt it was intruding...so I didn't want to be pushy.

Is just too mind boggling. I do understand re your feeling intrusive/not wanting to be pushy. Felt the same way before calling family but something just wasn't clicking. There were all these comments being made in, and to, news articles that were contradictory. Hate to word it this way but it should have been a sad, yet simple to comprehend, tragedy re drowning.

It wasn't and still isn't. On Nancy Grace, Allison had a national opportunity to gather the support of the public re possible abduction. In no way did she come across as believing an abduction took place. Yet once back on local grounds, she believes an abduction took place???

That Munchhausen thing just keeps coming to mind....

 

[capoly]

Do you think the sister just doesn't know and everyone is asking her what happened so she thinks that she is suppose to know, and therefore feels bad that she can't give any answers. She probably wants to please and maybe they got mad at her at the beginning out of frustration that she didn't see what happened. I can imagine with her being the only witness as to what happened that they were questioning her intensely at the beginning.

I think a good point was made up thread as well. What if the girls were fighting over one of the sand toys and she pushed Caleigh and she fell into the water. Then she walks away with the toy and resumes playing. So it could have been just a normal playing...she got the toy and ran away, Caleigh followed and slipped in the water. Could be quite a few scenarios that have her not actually seeing what happened, but maybe she wouldn't want to say that she took the toy away, or pushed her.

This is unlikely but will put it out there....

That open arm action is one I've used with my husband many a time over the years when the last time I saw a child, pet, item etc ...I was under the impression that such was in his possession. It was part of my reaction re 'I don't know, thought they were with you', other part was muttering curse words.

Maybe the sister could not answer the question because the only answer was 'thought she was with you'. Am thinking she might be a mite young for deciphering assumptive thought?

Not likely not but may as well throw it out there...one less thing to :banghead:

add on..meant to double quote re writer7's post.