GUILTY MA - Conrad Roy, 18, urged by friend, commits suicide, Fairhaven, 13 July 2014 #2 *guilty*

[SuperTmo]

Affluenza? Yes, even f her family us not extremely wealthy, she had things her way. Special consideration and privileges should not be given to her. She did not give Conrad any special consideration at all.
Will try and watch video in between cable going out from the electrical storm last night.

I don't see how she was given any special consideration at all. It wasn't her summer vacation plans that were being considered it was the officers of the court. I think any defendant in this exact case would have been left out on bail. Lots of high profile defendants get to surrender themselves at night to avoid media. jmo. But I hate her and want to see her crying in handcuffs. Maybe that makes me bad lol.

ETA: affluenza... that "term" makes me cringe. I still can't believe that worked for that kid.

 

[Amber29]

For those who haven't seen it.

[video=youtube;HWtbqY6OKKA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWtbqY6OKKA[/video]

Thanks for this video.

IMO at about the 3min mark the judges words makes her think it's a not guilty verdict. I'm so glad that's wasn't the case.

 

[ninij9]

Or she might kill herself before sentencing and leave a long grandiose delusional message detailing some fantasy about being reunited with Conrad eternally. Their 'happily ever after' so to speak.......(at least in her mind).

Oh barf. Or she might "attempt" suicide to Garner herself some sympathy.

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[ninij9]

Her family has probably spent a fortune on legal fees so I can see the temptation for paid interviews and movie deals. Distasteful to be sure but I could see why they might try to make some money off of it.

I don't think they can

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[HRP]

I know. I was replying to their statement. Not to you! Sorry for the confusion!

They are mistaken, are they not? Didn't you say there is a law in MA against aiding and assisting a suicide?

A few pages back my only confusion (as clearly stated kindly) was in trying to understand how you say otherwise (there is a law against aiding/assisting in suicide).

It seems this might be important to the appeal process considering the defense attorney, multiple news agencies, multiple legal talking heads, and now the ACLU are all stating there is no law in MA against aiding and assisting in a suicide.

Could be what makes this be overturned (no law against suicide aiding and assisting) because it is the only way she can get out of the "Get back in the truck" statement which was the crux (in part) of the judge's ruling.

Matthew Segal, legal director at the ACLU of Massachusetts, released the following statement:

Mr. Roy’s death is a terrible tragedy, but it is not a reason to stretch the boundaries of our criminal laws or abandon the protections of our constitution.
There is no law in Massachusetts making it a crime to encourage someone, or even to persuade someone, to commit suicide. Yet Ms. Carter has now been convicted of manslaughter, based on the prosecution’s theory that, as a 17-year-old girl, she literally killed Mr. Roy with her words. This conviction exceeds the limits of our criminal laws and violates free speech protections guaranteed by the Massachusetts and U.S. Constitutions.
The implications of this conviction go far beyond the tragic circumstances of Mr. Roy’s death. If allowed to stand, Ms. Carter’s conviction could chill important and worthwhile end-of-life discussions between loved ones across the Commonwealth.
​

 

[Safeguard]

One thing that really impressed me about this judge, was his respect for, and understanding of, the relapsing nature of Mental illness.

I was truly moved that he understood, Conrad had an established relapse pattern... two prior suicide attempts in which the weakened, but vital desire to live, overpowered his illness in the nick of time, and he was able to call a loved one for help, and get appropriate treatment. Only this one time, he mistook a monster for a friend, and she quickly killed the tiny life affirming voice he had left to reach out with. l hate her for that!

I don't think the judge missed her intent at all. Bravo! I am beginning to have hope that he may sentence her harshly after all.

 

[MsJosie]

I don't think they can

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Anthony's did....there is always a way.

 

[Hiandmighty]

So I am guessing you cannot be there when someone takes their life, cannot hand them the drugs to take. Etc.

Sticky, ACLU may have a point, and it seems to at least give her grounds for appeal.

We will have to see how this go through the courts.

 

[HRP]

Thank you for understanding! I didn't know until my friend passed, but I just knew that when I said "she committed suicide" something felt very wrong. A therapist corrected me one day and after that I've tried to correct people from then on. Unfortunately the media still does it. I hope we can change our wording around it because I know that it really does hurt the family members.

"By shifting our language around suicide, we have the power to reduce some of the massive shame carried by survivors of suicide. If you feel scared or helpless about what to say to someone who’s lost someone to suicide, take comfort in knowing that, by changing your language about suicide, you’re offering a countercultural act of kindness. It might seem small but the interpersonal and political impact is nothing but huge."

https://themighty.com/2015/07/why-you-shouldnt-say-committed-suicide/

This is typed in a kind tone (so please read it this way): I wish there was another thread for this discussion so I could thoroughly explain why I strongly disagree with most of this "egg-shell type-talk" which seems to be suggested when speaking to those who have lived through losing someone via suicide. So I will just say I disagree.

 

[KaaBoom]

I bet her lawyers wished that they went with a jury trial that consisted of men that could have been manipulated by not understanding the law while feeling sorry for her and wanting to save her. Lol

I think that would have been easier said than done. I'm sure that a cherry picked jury could have found her not guilty, but trying to find 12 jurors that fit that profile would not be easy. Just trying to seat an all male jury would be difficult. Plus I'm not sure the judge would have allowed them to delve that deep into the personal relationships of the jurors.

 

[gitana1]

I think if she hadn't shown that she researched it would take 15 minutes to die from carbon monoxide and kept him on the phone 20 minutes it would have been a completely different outcome. It was her exact knowledge of the "tool" used and its predicted timeline.

I had no clue about that part. Oh it just gets worse and worse.

Or she might kill herself before sentencing and leave a long grandiose delusional message detailing some fantasy about being reunited with Conrad eternally. Their 'happily ever after' so to speak.......(at least in her mind).

I can totally see her do something like that. A typical narcissistic borderline personality move to make. Just gets her last digs in to his poor family. So gross.

I re-watched for different reasons and that was to listen better to what the judge was saying. I did watch the confusion on MC's and her lawyers face though. They both thought it was going to be a not guilty verdict by the way the judge first started talking. jmo

The videos our dear posters posted don't start early enough. Any up yet from lady justice? It starts with mid-sentence about the fire department.


I don't think her attorney was confused, by the way. He was playing for the camera. Acting incredulous.

I could be wrong but believe it is illegal for her/family (?) to profit from her crime.

Her family can. I'm not sure if MA has such a law regarding the convict though.

I just watched it again also and understand Judge Moniz reasoning. But I myself do not think she should be "out on bail for the summer". She has been found guilty and is now awaiting sentencing. She should be awaiting that moment locked up. And during this time she can be contemplating the horrendous act she participated in to end Conrads life.
Now that she knows that she has been found guilty who knows what she will do to others and possibly herself included. I think she thought she was going to be found not guilty.
I thought it was nice that Judge Moniz thought of the court workers and all involved vacation plans already made but I would like to have seen her sentenced today!
And I hope I do not see her at the beach the few times a summer I get to go.

Such a frustration. But I get the ruling. The law mandates a pre-sentencing report by the probation department which will include her history, mental status, whether she has remorse/her attitude about the crime, etc., and a recommendation. He has to review that first.


Also, his reasoning regarding why she can remain out on bail makes sense although the decision is disappointing.

She played the innocent role to his family and acted like she wished that she could have done more to save him.

Even though she forced him once he got scared and was crying.

So I'm glad that she will have to face the music.

But still. Let's not forget that her lawyers will probably take this to the highest courts and she will probably still be out on bail during these appeals that may take years.

I'm hopeful she will not remain out on bail pending appeal.

I bet her lawyers wished that they went with a jury trial that consisted of men that could have been manipulated by not understanding the law while feeling sorry for her and wanting to save her. Lol

Oh yeah! Ha ha. I'm sure they are tying that decision.

 

[Safeguard]

This is typed in a kind tone (so please read it this way): I wish there was another thread for this discussion so I could thoroughly explain why I strongly disagree with most of this "egg-shell type-talk" which seems to be suggested when speaking to those who have lived through losing someone via suicide. So I will just say I disagree.

The Orwellian PC movement is perhaps best discussed on the Polivent forums. (But enter at your own risk, I found it an angry, nasty, name calling Vipers den, your mileage may vary ).

 

[LvsAMystry]

"GET BACK IN"

Wanton and Reckless.

She knew he would die if he got back in.

Guilty as charged.

Yes! I like how the Judge precipitated this by laying out that his timeline separated the actions, and how his getting out of the car was the end of his action and her telling him to get back in was the real beginning of hers. I also liked that he spelled out clearly that it didn't matter if he may or may not have gone on to succeed at this at a later time, it only mattered that he stopped himself this time and then she put him back in the truck to die.

I could not be happier about this verdict. I agree with those who feel sentencing will be light, but that's ok she has a felony stain on her record and the Commonwealth has let it be known that action or inaction and words do matter.

prayers to the Roy family today.

 

[Jewels53]

[video=youtube;A4i6bGFfQ9E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4i6bGFfQ9E[/video]

For you gitana!

 

[tiffay01]

All I keep thinking is Dr. Kevorkian, and how he assisted all of those patients in suicide. (Yes, I understand it was a different circumstance.) It was illegal to assist in murder and she in a way assisted in Conrads murder. I truly hope that she doesn't do something stupid while out on bail, she truly should be somewhere she could be monitored. Whether it's jail or a mental ward, something. They said her medication is making her do stupid stuff, so she is a danger not only to herself but others according to the defense! So?!?

I completely agree with her being found guilty, but what I want to make sure happens, is that the judge does in fact use her to set an example for future situations like this.

 

[Safeguard]

[video=youtube;A4i6bGFfQ9E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4i6bGFfQ9E[/video]

For you gitana!

Is it just me, or does anyone else see an amazing resemblance to Charlie Sheen in this pic of her defense attorney? ( maybe it's just that, "I don't quite understand how I messed up" expression?).

 

[gitana1]

So I am guessing you cannot be there when someone takes their life, cannot hand them the drugs to take. Etc.

Sticky, ACLU may have a point, and it seems to at least give her grounds for appeal.

We will have to see how this go through the courts.

No. At least not to just being there. Those were not the findings of the judge. He was pretty clear. She knew his mental state, knew the risk of death and when he wavered she commanded him to get back in the truck.

She didn't merely agree that he should kill himself. He wasn't merely present via phone as he died. That's a gross understatement. She cajoled, persuaded, instructed, bullied and commanded. Far different than either helping someone with a terminal medical illness (which is still illegal) and certainly vastly different than just being there.

 

[Hiandmighty]

No. At least not to just being there. Those were not the findings of the judge. He was pretty clear. She knew his mental state, knew the risk of death and when he wavered she commanded him to get back in the truck.

She didn't merely agree that he should kill himself. He wasn't merely present via phone as he died. That's a gross understatement. She cajoled, persuaded, instructed, bullied and commanded. Far different than either helping someone with a terminal medical illness (which is still illegal) and certainly vastly different than just being there.

I'm trying to place where the ACLU is coming from...

 

[ninij9]

Anthony's did....there is always a way.

But she wasn't convicted. Michelle is convicted. There is a difference.

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[Safeguard]

I'm trying to place where the ACLU is coming from...

Self preservation.