MA - Four children found hidden in apartment with alcohol, drugs, sex toys & corpse - Boston - June 21 2023

[fred&edna]

It says in the BFD report that the EMS were already in the process of providing aid for a 'working arrest' so they didn't arrive first.

It's possible with however many people were crowded into that apartment it became very scary for the kids. I don't know if anyone's ever had the fire department come to your home but these are big guys take up a lot of room with all their equipment and kind of scary looking, too, I would imagine, for little kids.

I wouldn't be surprised if those kids were crying because it was chaotic and scary for them even before the arrival of EMTs and the BFD.

I also think it would be scary for any parent who lives in public housing who knows they are scrutinized much more than their wealthier brethren when it comes to engaging in the same behaviors like drinking, taking drugs, driving while impaired. They are much more likely to be taken to task and punished for their behavior and bear the brunt of society's disapproval.

I don't know if you were directing your post to me (or just jumping off my post). All I know is that BFD and EMS were there before BPD.

 

[branmuffin]

I don't know if you were directing your post to me (or just jumping off my post). All I know is that BFD and EMS were there before BPD.

I was just taking the first sentence of the BFD report that you provided.
"Ladder 18 responded and found Boston EMS in the middle of a working arrest.

I presume if the EMTs were already in the process of providing aid to the deceased then it follows they arrived first on scene.

 

[lonetraveler]

I don't care if these men were in dresses or wearing MAGA hats and khakis, or dressed up like the flipping Easter Bunny.

The fact is, these men all lied to first responders and tried to convince them there were no children there, when the children themselves were heard crying for help, hidden away in a back room.

The fact is, these children were removed from their parent's custody due to the extreme unsanitary living conditions in the apartment. Those 4 kids are the victims in this awful situation.

From the linked article, and the entire reason I posted this case in the first place:

"At the end of the day, my biggest concern is what were the children exposed to and were they hurt in any way,” said Murphy."

jmo

Thanks so much for putting this into words. I agree, it doesn't matter who was there, however, it does matter why the person died, why the children were hidden in the back room and to find out what was going on with the children being present. IMO

 

[fred&edna]

I was just taking the first sentence of the BFD report that you provided.
"Ladder 18 responded and found Boston EMS in the middle of a working arrest.

I presume if the EMTs were already in the process of providing aid to the deceased then it follows they arrived first on scene.

'Gotcha! I think I might have been kinda/sorta responding to another post (maybe 280).

 

[tlcya]

This may have been asked and answered somewhere and I may have missed it, but I am curious why on an aid call for a person down, BFD would want to access a room that did not contain the person in need of that aid and further what would prompt them to ask if children were present in the apartment in the first place?

I ask because my ex husband is a retired firefighter and was active duty when we were married (our department also responds to aid calls and is often the first to respond before EMS). This was never part of my ex's department protocols.

Also, I must assume this call for aid went through 911, and 911 operators usually keep callers on the line until officers have arrived.

Is it possible the adult male keeping children in one room was acting under advice of officers enroute or the dispatcher on the phone about keeping the children in another area of the apartment and out from under foot? If children were crying and heard by first responders, it isn't a leap to imagine that a dispatcher might also hear that and tell a caller to restrain dogs, corral children, etc. in anticipation of their arrival on scene.

Just thoughts that have occurred today as I digest the new information which seems to refute much of the initial salacious info from the first several articles.

 

[MyBelle]

It says in the BFD report that the EMS were already in the process of providing aid for a 'working arrest' so they didn't arrive first.

It's possible with however many people were crowded into that apartment it became very scary for the kids. I don't know if anyone's ever had the fire department come to your home but these are big guys take up a lot of room with all their equipment and kind of scary looking, too, I would imagine, for little kids.

I wouldn't be surprised if those kids were crying because it was chaotic and scary for them even before the arrival of EMTs and the BFD.

I also think it would be scary for any parent who lives in public housing who knows they are scrutinized much more than their wealthier brethren when it comes to engaging in the same behaviors like drinking, taking drugs, driving while impaired. They are much more likely to be taken to task and punished for their behavior and bear the brunt of society's disapproval.

BBM. Good points! Public housing units are not large square footage. If there were already 11 adults/children in that apartment, plus the EMTs working on the victim, I do question why a Ladder truck would decide to barge in and crowd it further.

 

[doublestop]

If all 4 kids had at least one parent present, the odds are pretty high that they were related to, or knew well, the person upon whom the EMTs were working. It would be terrifying for them to see that and allowing it would be more neglectful than telling them to go into a back room. Sure they were yelling because they were scared of what was going on in the front room.

 

[fred&edna]

BBM. Good points! Public housing units are not large square footage. If there were already 11 adults/children in that apartment, plus the EMTs working on the victim, I do question why a Ladder truck would decide to barge in and crowd it further.

Did they barge in or were they trying to find the source of the cries for help from another room (while EMS was working on the patient) ?

Lots of things we all see differently.

 

[MyBelle]

This may have been asked and answered somewhere and I may have missed it, but I am curious why on an aid call for a person down, BFD would want to access a room that did not contain the person in need of that aid and further what would prompt them to ask if children were present in the apartment in the first place?

I ask because my ex husband is a retired firefighter and was active duty when we were married (our department also responds to aid calls and is often the first to respond before EMS). This was never part of my ex's department protocols.

Also, I must assume this call for aid went through 911, and 911 operators usually keep callers on the line until officers have arrived.

Is it possible the adult male keeping children in one room was acting under advice of officers enroute or the dispatcher on the phone about keeping the children in another area of the apartment and out from under foot? If children were crying and heard by first responders, it isn't a leap to imagine that a dispatcher might also hear that and tell a caller to restrain dogs, corral children, etc. in anticipation of their arrival on scene.

Just thoughts that have occurred today as I digest the new information which seems to refute much of the initial salacious info from the first several articles.

BBM. That is a very good point! It certainly could have been the 911 operator who advised keeping the children in another room! When our kids were that young, the sound of sirens scared them.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

If all 4 kids had at least one parent present, the odds are pretty high that they were related to, or knew well, the person upon whom the EMTs were working. It would be terrifying for them to see that and allowing it would be more neglectful than telling them to go into a back room. Sure they were yelling because they were scared of what was going on in the front room.

ITA. I've wondered if one or more of the children was related to the victim EMS was trying to resuscitate. For sure that would be terrifying to them.

JMO

 

[Teche]

I wouldn't be surprised if both agencies completed a 15A report to OCS. A mandated report should not rely on another agency to file a complaint.

 

[Bodhi]

As I understand the protocols, the firefighters on scene are there to assist EMTs if necessary. Generally most wait outside the building. In the case of a multi-unit building, a couple may have staged in the corridor or stairwell. The responding police officers would go inside the unit to assess the situation. In this case, there were already 11 people in the small unit plus the 2 EMTs. It is unlikely firefighters were inside the unit because there was no reason or no need for them to enter.

 

[sds71]

Mass. Congressman demands answers in South Boston apartment investigation

www.boston25news.com

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[Bodhi]

IMOO, the unfounded "facts" originated among those outside who never entered the apartment. Neighbors speculating. Casual remarks among firefighters passing the time once it became apparent they weren't needed inside. Passersby misinterpreting or embellishing on what they overheard. The facts are usually more boring than what onlookers surmise.

 

[Bodhi]

Mass. Congressman demands answers in South Boston apartment investigation

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Do we even know as a fact that 4 children were taken into custody?

All accounts agree that 4 children were present in the unit and that children are now in DCYF custody. Initial accounts referred to 4 boys, IIRC. The apartment occupant, a mother of two girls who were there, has given interviews stating her two daughters are in DCYF custody. It is entirely possible, and indeed probable, that the other two children went home with their parent that day.

 

[LaineyJ]

Mass. Congressman demands answers in South Boston apartment investigation

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I’m just glad someone is still talking about this. I hope people are pushing for answers because this is unacceptable. If true, some details imo should not have been made public - what purpose does it serve? If untrue, why were such things said?

 

[Sundog]

Did they barge in or were they trying to find the source of the cries for help from another room (while EMS was working on the patient) ?

Lots of things we all see differently.

Agree, of course they didn't "barge in," they were asked by 911 to respond to the call that came in. Fire Dept personnel would be remiss if they showed up and saw EMS already there and then drove off, assuming things were being handled. They had to go in to the residence and evaluate the situation.

 

[Vern]

Did they barge in or were they trying to find the source of the cries for help from another room (while EMS was working on the patient) ?

Lots of things we all see differently.

Perhaps one of the children was yelling "please help" ... as in help the victim.

I am really hoping that no children of the victim were actally present in the room while the live-saving attempts were being made, but even if not, this incident must have been traumatizing on every single one of them.

Have done it, have witnessed it (and heard it) and it is not a nice sight.

 

[fred&edna]

But in her radio interview Monday, Wu seemed to imply that the difference in the descriptions of the incident the two agencies put out likely has more to do with their varying roles in the investigation than anything else.

"There is no reason to question the integrity of any of our agencies and the words they put into those reports. Each one of them works to save lives and ensure the safety of those involved," she said. "There has been additional color and rumor injected into this from other places, and we just want to make sure everyone stays focused on letting everyone do their work. It's still an ongoing death investigation."

Wu said Boston EMS and the Boston Fire Department were first to respond to the scene, and police were called in later once it became a death investigation.

"I think it's important to remember that each of our first responder agencies has a different role to play when on scene at an emergency response," she said. "Each of them arrive at different points in time."

ETA: Wu confirmed Monday that all four children remain in DCF custody.

Wu: ‘No reason to question integrity of any of our agencies' in South Boston death investigation

After being called out for disputing reports from fire officials, Boston Mayor Michelle Wu on Monday said there is no reason for anyone to doubt either fire or police accounts of a recent South Boston death investigation. During an appearance on on WBUR’s “Radio Boston,” Wu was asked about the...

www.nbcboston.com

 

[Sundog]

Mass. Congressman demands answers in South Boston apartment investigation

www.boston25news.com

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Glad to see that the Congressmember for their district is looking into the situation with the goal of getting the facts about what happened. I hoped that something like this would happen, since the Mayor, City Council, BFD, and BPD all seem to be at odds over what transpired and aren't necessarily working on behalf of the best interests of the children involved.

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