MA MA - Holly Piirainen, 10, Sturbridge, 5 Aug 1993

[MassGuy]

I wonder if Donald Mars could be connected to this case? He was offending in the early 90’s and was recently arrested in the murder of Betty Lou Zukowski.

Both Holly and Betty were 10 years old. Both cases happen in Hampden county, MA

Although Betty was murdered in 1966 and Holly was murdered in 1993, Donald Mars was still offending in 1995? Thoughts?

Redirect Notice

Definitely possible I suppose.

If not Holly, you've got to think he's responsible for a lot of unsolved crimes, based on the brutality of that first murder, and the decades of freedom.

Holly was killed in Sturbridge though, which is Worcester County. It's about 40 miles away from Chicopee, where this victim was killed.

 

[Earth]

I think we need a better timeline of where this man was living before we make any solid deductions.

 

[Baddux]

Considering the recent developments of Frank Sumner not being connected to the Molly Bish case, and criticism by the Bish family of the DA / investigation team, I think it would be a good idea to revisit connections that were suggested to this case that were obviously disregarded.

 

[Deleted member 306806]

1. There has been some discussion up thread about how investigators found forensic evidence tied David Poliuot and wanted to know about his associations and movements around the time of Holly's murder: "The nature of the item suggests either Mr. Pouliot or people associated with him were in the area at a time relevant to the disappearance of Holly and the discovery of her remains," Mastroianni said. " (Investigators are seeking more information about David E. Pouliot of Springfield in connection with the 1993 killing of Holly Piirainen)

2. There has been discussion around the body exhumed, of a 22 year old person who died in 1997and how this person may be connected to David Pouliot, and connected to the forensic evidence. Especially since investigators refer to the evidence as indicating he or "people associated with him" were near Hollys site of abduction or where her remains were left. My opinion reading this thread is familial dna, given the ages and wording, is an impression some readers or sleuthers would get.


3. My own sleuthing sometimes brings me to look up obits,often to clarify and understand family connections. David Pouliot has such an obit on MSM -
https://obits.masslive.com/us/obituaries/masslive/name/david-pouliot-obituary. One that does not indicate any younger close relatives who predeceased him. This does not excluded unknown offspring that are genetically linked, but does seem to exclude known children.

4 Two more notes, first the website for Holly, helpholly.com, does not mention David Pouliot information. I think that it interesting. David Pouliot also worked with youth services juvenile detention center. My opinion, a place where his dna and someone in the 18-22 age range could mingle on an object.

 

[Serdavc]

Considering the recent developments of Frank Sumner not being connected to the Molly Bish case, and criticism by the Bish family of the DA / investigation team, I think it would be a good idea to revisit connections that were suggested to this case that were obviously disregarded.

I’m not sure that Donald Mars can be connected to Molly Bish’s case:

He was incarcerated from 1994-2015.

From MSM article below:

“In court, Dunphy Farris said that after the convictions, Mars was determined to be sexually dangerous and was civilly committed to the Massachusetts Treatment Center in Bridgewater from 1994 to 2015.”

Child rapist charged in slaying of 10-year-old Chicopee girl 56 years ago - The Boston Globe

Here is a MSM article on Betty Lou Zukowski’s case that shows pictures of Donald Mars through the years.

Suspect charged in connection with 1966 homicide of Betty Lou Zukowski from Chicopee

 

[lowes123]

I’m not sure that Donald Mars can be connected to Molly Bish’s case:

He was incarcerated from 1994-2015.

From MSM article below:

“In court, Dunphy Farris said that after the convictions, Mars was determined to be sexually dangerous and was civilly committed to the Massachusetts Treatment Center in Bridgewater from 1994 to 2015.”

Child rapist charged in slaying of 10-year-old Chicopee girl 56 years ago - The Boston Globe

Here is a MSM article on Betty Lou Zukowski’s case that shows pictures of Donald Mars through the years.

Suspect charged in connection with 1966 homicide of Betty Lou Zukowski from Chicopee

Holly was abducted in 1993, so it is possible that he was involved in Holly's case.

 

[Baddux]

1. There has been some discussion up thread about how investigators found forensic evidence tied David Poliuot and wanted to know about his associations and movements around the time of Holly's murder: "The nature of the item suggests either Mr. Pouliot or people associated with him were in the area at a time relevant to the disappearance of Holly and the discovery of her remains," Mastroianni said. " (Investigators are seeking more information about David E. Pouliot of Springfield in connection with the 1993 killing of Holly Piirainen)

2. There has been discussion around the body exhumed, of a 22 year old person who died in 1997and how this person may be connected to David Pouliot, and connected to the forensic evidence. Especially since investigators refer to the evidence as indicating he or "people associated with him" were near Hollys site of abduction or where her remains were left. My opinion reading this thread is familial dna, given the ages and wording, is an impression some readers or sleuthers would get.


3. My own sleuthing sometimes brings me to look up obits,often to clarify and understand family connections. David Pouliot has such an obit on MSM -
https://obits.masslive.com/us/obituaries/masslive/name/david-pouliot-obituary. One that does not indicate any younger close relatives who predeceased him. This does not excluded unknown offspring that are genetically linked, but does seem to exclude known children.

4 Two more notes, first the website for Holly, helpholly.com, does not mention David Pouliot information. I think that it interesting. David Pouliot also worked with youth services juvenile detention center. My opinion, a place where his dna and someone in the 18-22 age range could mingle on an object.

I obtained the identity of the person exhumed through some investigation. From what I can tell, this person's brother MAY meet some of the features of the MB case suspect in the white car. The area and time period are also similar to this case. Just interesting but all coincidental

 

[lowes123]

I obtained the identity of the person exhumed through some investigation. From what I can tell, this person's brother MAY meet some of the features of the MB case suspect in the white car. The area and time period are also similar to this case. Just interesting but all coincidental

Is the exhumed body related to Pouliot? How did you find out who it was?

 

[Baddux]

Is the exhumed body related to Pouliot? How did you find out who it was?

I'd have to go back into my archive of notes, but I am quite certain that the person exhumed was either someone who directly associated with Pouliot or was had knowledge of his brother's relationship with Pouliot. It was a really weird way I found out, and, because it might be a solid lead for either this or the Bish case, I am not willing to compromise the investigation by letting out the name. It is possible to determine the individual exhumed without inside knowledge however.

 

[Tilielou62]

I obtained the identity of the person exhumed through some investigation. From what I can tell, this person's brother MAY meet some of the features of the MB case suspect in the white car. The area and time period are also similar to this case. Just interesting but all coincidental

 

[Tilielou62]

I think the exhumed person is more likely tied to Holly than Molly for a few reasons including the exhumed person's activity in the area where Holly was found. I also think that person is more a witness than a suspect. I haven't found anything indicating the person had ties to Warren. Have you?

 

[Baddux]

I think the exhumed person is more likely tied to Holly than Molly for a few reasons including the exhumed person's activity in the area where Holly was found. I also think that person is more a witness than a suspect. I haven't found anything indicating the person had ties to Warren. Have you?

To answer your question directly, no. The area in which the crimes and the suspects or POI's who have been named are like 20-30 minutes apart. My speculation is based on some ongoing themes and mistakes that have been made over and over in regards to these two cases specifically. I'd be happy to elaborate if anyone is interested.

 

[Tilielou62]

To answer your question directly, no. The area in which the crimes and the suspects or POI's who have been named are like 20-30 minutes apart. My speculation is based on some ongoing themes and mistakes that have been made over and over in regards to these two cases specifically. I'd be happy to elaborate if anyone is interested.

Please elaborate. Would love to hear your thoughts. I'm leaning toward the two not being the same perp. I still like Sumner in the Bish case. He certainly would've learned after his first kidnapping/rape/conviction that he can't leave a living witness or he goes back to jail. His kids were living in Warren. He had friends there. He knew the area. In Holly's case, I'm curious about the exhumed person (whose ID is also known to me) because of their connection to the area where Holly was found. But after the exhumation we didn't hear much which makes me wonder if anything worthwhile was found.

 

[Baddux]

Please elaborate. Would love to hear your thoughts. I'm leaning toward the two not being the same perp. I still like Sumner in the Bish case. He certainly would've learned after his first kidnapping/rape/conviction that he can't leave a living witness or he goes back to jail. His kids were living in Warren. He had friends there. He knew the area. In Holly's case, I'm curious about the exhumed person (whose ID is also known to me) because of their connection to the area where Holly was found. But after the exhumation we didn't hear much which makes me wonder if anything worthwhile was found.

I don't know who I like for either crime. I believe they are both solvable. I think you have the same old and entrenched people doing the same things the same way for decades upon decades. Like any other hierarchical organization in America right now a whole generation of new ideas, technology, and perspectives has been skipped or put on hold so the same people can continue to be in charge.

I think you see shades of this problem popping in every once in awhile. These cases are old. Looking at the big picture with this sort of thing, you will get a glimmer of hope every 10 years or so that progress will be made but nothing ever happens. People in charge do not like being wrong. Law enforcement people are probably the most assertive group in society so the effect is magnified.

Look at how attached Hampden county is to Sumner for the Bish case. Now, I am not saying that he is a bad suspect or that anyone suggesting him is wrong or misguided. Why the heck did they announce him as a suspect before the DNA thing was finished? I mean the non-familial match came out about not that long after they announced him as a suspect. The case is already 2 decades old. Why go public with it when the wheels are already in motion that would greatly add to the validity of the assertion? The Worcester DA has been there for 75% of the time since Molly was killed. And how coincidental is it that he ran out with that PR piece about sumner within months of the Hampden DA (who was installed in 2015) releasing the information about the exhumation?

With Holly's case I think there is more hope. I think Pouliot is the person who is the key to solving it. Not necessarily as a suspect, but for whatever reason I think he trafficked with bad people. I'm not clear on if he was a drug user or not, but my spider sense tells me that he was connected in some way to the exhumed guy or perhaps the exhumed guy's older brother. Exhumations are generally not permitted for frivolous reasons. Somebody must have had a pretty good idea what was in that letter they were searching for. I think someone must have come forward after the person that they knew put it in there died or was otherwise unable to do anything about the admission. Either that or a deathbed confession about it. Pouliot would have been 49 when Holly was murdered so add 25 years from 1997 when the dead guy was buried with the letter. If the person was related somehow (case wise) to this person it puts someone nearer to the average life expectancy like 75ish.

 

[weepingangel]

DA to Share Evidence Wednesday in Search for Holly Piirainen's Killer

Authorities are set to give an update on the search for the killer of Holly Piirainen, a 10-year-old girl whose body was found in the western Massachusetts woods nearly 30 years ago.

www.necn.com

 

[Yemelyan]

Authorities seek info about an adult-sized tank top found near Holly's remains:

Public's help sought in identifying tank top found in probe of 10-year-old girl's murder

Holly was 10 when she disappeared in 1993. Her remains were found weeks later in a wooded area of Massachusetts.

www.wcvb.com

 

[Yemelyan]

Hampden DA Gulluni said that they are interested in determining who owned the shirt, its origin or places where it was known to be sold, information about its manufacturer or any information about how it came to be associated with the Five Bridge Rd area of Brimfield.

Holly's aunt spoke briefly and said that the family's hope for the outcome is that this information will result in a concrete lead, not more of the rumors that have already been circulating for years (this is paraphrased by me).

This info is from the video at the news article here: Public's help sought in identifying tank top found in probe of 10-year-old girl's murder

 

[lowes123]

Authorities seek info about an adult-sized tank top found near Holly's remains:

Public's help sought in identifying tank top found in probe of 10-year-old girl's murder

Holly was 10 when she disappeared in 1993. Her remains were found weeks later in a wooded area of Massachusetts.

www.wcvb.com

The man identified as a person of interest in 2012, David Pouliot is shown wearing several different tank tops, in media photos online. I wonder if anyone that he knew would recognize this one. Thirty years is a long time, but maybe someone remembers it.

 

[Seattle1]

The man identified as a person of interest in 2012, David Pouliot is shown wearing several different tank tops, in media photos online. I wonder if anyone that he knew would recognize this one. Thirty years is a long time, but maybe someone remembers it.

Tank is being described as "adult size." I wonder if they are hoping to obtain info about the mfg, possibly where it was distributed/sold-- to definitively tie it to the male or one of his friends. IMO, seems to me something more to the liking of a female. (Youmg men here saying too much neon-pink).

 

[Yemelyan]

To me the tank top looks like the cheap touristy stuff the outdoor vendors sell around places like Downtown Crossing, Kenmore Square and Faneuil Hall in Boston. In 1993 styles for men were different than they are now....I could see a male wearing this.