MA MA - Joan Risch, 30, Lincoln, 24 Oct 1961

[jgfitzge]

I found this comment in a Boston Globe story about Massachusetts Mysteries...I never heard of this one. Part of me thinks it's BS..

Prof-Richard03/31/13 11:10 AM
I used to live in Lincoln, and I remember her home there. Joan Risch's disappearance received a lot of attention at the time, but the Boston Globe soon lost interest in the story. The local newspaper did not, and it was there that I read that the State Police lab determined that the blood smeared on the kitchen doorpost was not human blood -- it was goat's blood. (Let your imaginations run.)

 

[liz b.]

I found this comment in a Boston Globe story about Massachusetts Mysteries...I never heard of this one. Part of me thinks it's BS..

Prof-Richard03/31/13 11:10 AM
I used to live in Lincoln, and I remember her home there. Joan Risch's disappearance received a lot of attention at the time, but the Boston Globe soon lost interest in the story. The local newspaper did not, and it was there that I read that the State Police lab determined that the blood smeared on the kitchen doorpost was not human blood -- it was goat's blood. (Let your imaginations run.)

Moving on...back in this thread there is an old newspaper article which stated that one of the bloody prints found in the kitchen was Martin Risch;s fingerprint . Never read it anywhere else.

 

[4SAM]

This story has a lot of twists to it.

 

[jgfitzge]

Moving on...back in this thread there is an old newspaper article which stated that one of the bloody prints found in the kitchen was Martin Risch;s fingerprint . Never read it anywhere else.

Liz, Martin Risch's bloody print found in the kitchen? Wow, never saw that one! He was in NY City on business that day so him being at the house that afternoon would be impossible. His print can only get there if upon his return to Lincoln that evening he was allowed to enter the crime scene and he touched the wall where there was blood?

 

[jgfitzge]

Liz, a few things that strike me about the crime scene. One, the amount of blood really was not that much, I think total was a 1/2 pint. However, when it is splattered it makes a visceral impact so it looks like "lots of blood!" Two, there may..have been a "struggle" in the kitchen but, I do not see it as a "knock down, drag them out, monumental" struggle. I see a small table turned over and the phone receiver on the edge of the rubbish pail in the middle of the kitchen floor. What do most of us do when there is a large mess on the floor? Yes, we open the underneath cabinet, take out the rubbish container and place it on the floor so we can clean up the mess more efficiently. I think it may have been more of a stagger than a struggle. And, no, I do not feel it was staged for the purpose of a "disappearance." Lastly, one question I had was "What type of blood was it?" I read on a few sites where some posters with supposed Lincoln connections said it was menstrual blood as opposed to regular blood. However, I also hear miscarriage blood looks different as well. This is not my area of expertise so, I may need a little help on that one particular point.

 

[jgfitzge]

Yes, it does. I liken it to a cruel game of Clue! Like I have said before, more than most disappearances there seems to be a lot of information, yet, at the same time not a lot of key information....

 

[4SAM]

Wasn't it confirmed that Martin was indeed in New York that night? Maybe stupid question, but if his handprint was say on the phine receiver and blood is splattered over the print, could his print look like it was there after the bllod. Am I asking that correctly without drawing it?? LOL

 

[Skigirl]

Wasn't it confirmed that Martin was indeed in New York that night? Maybe stupid question, but if his handprint was say on the phine receiver and blood is splattered over the print, could his print look like it was there after the bllod. Am I asking that correctly without drawing it?? LOL

He did not stay overnight in NY. He left for a flight in the morning and flew back after she was reported missing. But to your point, he was confirmed to be elsewhere during the window of time during which she disappeared.

 

[liz b.]

Liz, a few things that strike me about the crime scene. One, the amount of blood really was not that much, I think total was a 1/2 pint. However, when it is splattered it makes a visceral impact so it looks like "lots of blood!" Two, there may..have been a "struggle" in the kitchen but, I do not see it as a "knock down, drag them out, monumental" struggle. I see a small table turned over and the phone receiver on the edge of the rubbish pail in the middle of the kitchen floor. What do most of us do when there is a large mess on the floor? Yes, we open the underneath cabinet, take out the rubbish container and place it on the floor so we can clean up the mess more efficiently. I think it may have been more of a stagger than a struggle. And, no, I do not feel it was staged for the purpose of a "disappearance." Lastly, one question I had was "What type of blood was it?" I read on a few sites where some posters with supposed Lincoln connections said it was menstrual blood as opposed to regular blood. However, I also hear miscarriage blood looks different as well. This is not my area of expertise so, I may need a little help on that one particular point.

The phone was ripped from the wall. That, plus an overturned table, blood ...it points to a struggle. imo.

 

[BostonSu]

The phone was ripped from the wall. That, plus an overturned table, blood ...it points to a struggle. imo.

But the phone wasn't ripped from the wall. The handset was disconnected, which can happen quite easily. A small table knocked over, also seems minor. The kitchen otherwise was normal. If she were experiencing intense pain, cramping, etc, she could easily have tugged the handset & bumped the table over.

 

[liz b.]

But the phone wasn't ripped from the wall. The handset was disconnected, which can happen quite easily. A small table knocked over, also seems minor. The kitchen otherwise was normal. If she were experiencing intense pain, cramping, etc, she could easily have tugged the handset & bumped the table over.

This is true. And there were bloodspots on the floor of the baby's room upstairs. I thought I had read that the phone was pulled from the wall. And the phone book was open to the emergency services number.. what do these things suggest to you ? TIA

 

[BostonSu]

This is true. And there were bloodspots on the floor of the baby's room upstairs. I thought I had read that the phone was pulled from the wall. And the phone book was open to the emergency services number.. what do these things suggest to you ? TIA

One of the problems is it suggests so many things, all possible, and none with proof. If it weren't for her disappearance, I'd be likely to go with miscarriage or some similar event, but vanishing into thin air seems to rule that out

 

[jgfitzge]

That is why I believe strongly in the pregnancy and/or affair theory. If this was a simple household accident (or even an intruder), drawing blood, there would be no shame. Joan would seek help from a neighbor and not vanish. However, where you have some "accident" or other injury injury due to a situation that you don't want public like an unwanted pregnancy and/or an affair, well that brings about a whole different way of reacting. In that case, you bring in a confidant or the person responsible and/or the othjer party of the affair. Thus, you have the strange car, the "getting away" (whether voluntary or forced) before someone sees me behavior, and then vanishing or getting murdered.

 

[liz b.]

That is why I believe strongly in the pregnancy and/or affair theory. If this was a simple household accident (or even an intruder), drawing blood, there would be no shame. Joan would seek help from a neighbor and not vanish. However, where you have some "accident" or other injury injury due to a situation that you don't want public like an unwanted pregnancy and/or an affair, well that brings about a whole different way of reacting. In that case, you bring in a confidant or the person responsible and/or the othjer party of the affair. Thus, you have the strange car, the "getting away" (whether voluntary or forced) before someone sees me behavior, and then vanishing or getting murdered.

You could be right. I sometimes think that one reason this case is so convoluted, and seemingly doesn't make sense is that one or more sets of "facts" we are using are not facts at all, but jmo

 

[Skigirl]

Liz, a few things that strike me about the crime scene. One, the amount of blood really was not that much, I think total was a 1/2 pint. However, when it is splattered it makes a visceral impact so it looks like "lots of blood!" Two, there may..have been a "struggle" in the kitchen but, I do not see it as a "knock down, drag them out, monumental" struggle. I see a small table turned over and the phone receiver on the edge of the rubbish pail in the middle of the kitchen floor. What do most of us do when there is a large mess on the floor? Yes, we open the underneath cabinet, take out the rubbish container and place it on the floor so we can clean up the mess more efficiently. I think it may have been more of a stagger than a struggle. And, no, I do not feel it was staged for the purpose of a "disappearance." Lastly, one question I had was "What type of blood was it?" I read on a few sites where some posters with supposed Lincoln connections said it was menstrual blood as opposed to regular blood. However, I also hear miscarriage blood looks different as well. This is not my area of expertise so, I may need a little help on that one particular point.

In all the years I've followed this case, I have never, ever (ever) seen anything saying it was menstral blood versus "regular" blood. I'm not even sure it was possible to make that determination back then, though I suppose it's possible. Before we head down a rabbit hole, please provide a link to that information about the blood being "menstral" -- it's required by the Websleuths TOS when introducing facts.

 

[Skigirl]

You could be right. I sometimes think that one reason this case is so convoluted, and seemingly doesn't make sense is that one or more sets of "facts" we are using are not facts at all, but jmo

I agree, this thread has gotten full of things that are being presented as facts without having been established. It's fine to speculate, that's what we're all here for, but IMHO, we need to be careful to separate our speculations from what we present as facts. I am probably as guilty of this as anyone, so I am going to be more careful about it in the future.

 

[Skigirl]

But the phone wasn't ripped from the wall. The handset was disconnected, which can happen quite easily. A small table knocked over, also seems minor. The kitchen otherwise was normal. If she were experiencing intense pain, cramping, etc, she could easily have tugged the handset & bumped the table over.

BostonSu, Can you please link to the information about the handset being disconnected? Everything I've read, including the write-up on charleyproject, where the author is very careful about what qualifies as a "fact" and pulls only from reliable sources and looks up cases in contemporary and new newspaper articles, says "ripped from the wall".

For example: https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2...ries-boston/3F0hZDplpXMUI5TQht85XO/story.html

 

[jgfitzge]

In all the years I've followed this case, I have never, ever (ever) seen anything saying it was menstral blood versus "regular" blood. I'm not even sure it was possible to make that determination back then, though I suppose it's possible. Before we head down a rabbit hole, please provide a link to that information about the blood being "menstral" -- it's required by the Websleuths TOS when introducing facts.

I sure can, check the comments section of the "Dark Matters " series about Joan Risch on YouTube. When I get a minute I can screen shot the comment. BTW, I introduce as a question, not a fact for the expressed purpose of narrowing speculation. Please note in my comments and speculation I make every attempt to narrow the possible from the highly unlikely (ex. Dentist as abortionist)

 

[Skigirl]

I sure can, check the comments section of the "Dark Matters " series about Joan Risch on YouTube. When I get a minute I can screen shot the comment. BTW, I introduce as a question, not a fact for the expressed purpose of narrowing speculation. Please note in my comments and speculation I make every attempt to narrow the possible from the highly unlikely (ex. Dentist as abortionist)

Comments online aren't reliable sources but I take your point about speculation/questions. Many threads are much stricter about only allowing information from certain sources deemed reliable by WS.


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[liz b.]

BostonSu, Can you please link to the information about the handset being disconnected? Everything I've read, including the write-up on charleyproject, where the author is very careful about what qualifies as a "fact" and pulls only from reliable sources and looks up cases in contemporary and new newspaper articles, says "ripped from the wall".

For example: https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2...ries-boston/3F0hZDplpXMUI5TQht85XO/story.html

I had always read "ripped " from the wall.