MA MA - Joan Risch, 30, Lincoln, 24 Oct 1961

[Stella]

I kind of remember reading somewhere that when Lillian was questioned by police, she told them her mother had taken her and Doug back to the Barker's house, telling her, "I'll be back in a minute". That's not a time frame you'd give if having an abortion. I'm thinking maybe Joan saw someone (intruder/burglar) in the window of her house while doing the yard work and getting the kids out of harm's way, decided to confront him herself. She wouldn't be thinking clearly, just wanting to get to her baby. If he stabbed her in the abdomen, she would've put her arms across her stomach, getting blood all over her them. Maybe that was what Barbara Barker meant when she saw something red in Joan's arms.
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[jgfitzge]

I kind of remember reading somewhere that when Lillian was questioned by police, she told them her mother had taken her and Doug back to the Barker's house, telling her, "I'll be back in a minute". That's not a time frame you'd give if having an abortion. I'm thinking maybe Joan saw someone (intruder/burglar) in the window of her house while doing the yard work and getting the kids out of harm's way, decided to confront him herself. She wouldn't be thinking clearly, just wanting to get to her baby. If he stabbed her in the abdomen, she would've put her arms across her stomach, getting blood all over her them. Maybe that was what Barbara Barker meant when she saw something red in Joan's arms.
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Stella, this theory was also in the pdf file concerning this case. I suppose it is possible. I don't know, in my ranking I put it higher up the scale than the staged disappearance theory. A few things make this less likely; no screaming or load noises were heard, Joan not seeking help from a neighbor, Joan sending Lillian off to the neighbors to take the intruder on one on one instead of telling the neighbor or anyone to call the police, and the aftermath of the disappearance, if the intruder theory was that strong there seemed to be no climate supporting this in the neighborhood. Now...let me qualify your comment a little bit...I think it is entirely possible that the "intruder" may have been someone she knew and further knew he "stopped by" announced. So, that could explain her sending Lillian off...

 

[liz b.]

Bingo Liz - in a few of my previous posts I allude to this theory. Obviously, it is speculative but I have given it a lot of thought. Let me state some of the reasons I considered a LEO being involved in Joan Risch's disappearance. I considered some of the other theories that have been put out there (ex. staging her disappearance) and put them way down the list of possibilities. I rarely believe in coincidences. I look at crimes and related mysteries and I usually find the reasons are as old as the bible...money, love, lust, envy, drugs, etc...The other thing I often find is a lot of the unsolved crimes and disappearances, at least around here, involve some type of LE malfeasance, sometimes innocent/benign, other times intentional. Always remember like a ship captain, LE controls the investigation on where it goes...Like the rumors and scuttlebutt, I always thought the person responsible was local...whether it was a neighbor or maybe a LEO. Again, speculation on my part

So, Ok, so let me run a theory by you that I have been mulling over for a while now. Do you think one of the younger Lincoln police officers or plain clothes seeing a young, attractive, new neighbor with a husband that travels might have pulled up the "welcome wagon?" Think about it. Maybe an affair began, and it got out of hand and/or Joan got pregnant. That is why she took out those books IMO. That is why the short time frame (April to October) is a major factor to me. Enough time to be early in pregnancy but not showing. Like a few other posters I truly believe Martin Risch knew something was going on

It is a vehicle hidden in plain sight, it has a legit reason to be everywhere and anywhere in the town. That is why no neighborhood fear of a strangler or boogeyman took place in the weeks and months afterward. A high school teenager, who gets off the school bus each day at 2:30 like clockwork, sees the two tone car and LE says she was mistaken and it must have seen it after 4:30?? However, they could not use that excuse on anyone who saw the two tone care in the days and weeks before the disappearance. Does my speculated theory have merit or am I way off here?

Your theory is as good as any. But it doesn't explain the sighting of the woman walking. I think if Joan had been attacked in her house, she would have gone to her neighbor's house for help. One thing : Martin seems to have absolutely believed that Joan was still alive. Did he tell the children that ? Wonder what they thought had happened to their mom ?

 

[Skigirl]

Stella, this theory was also in the pdf file concerning this case. I suppose it is possible. I don't know, in my ranking I put it higher up the scale than the staged disappearance theory. A few things make this less likely; no screaming or load noises were heard, Joan not seeking help from a neighbor, Joan sending Lillian off to the neighbors to take the intruder on one on one instead of telling the neighbor or anyone to call the police, and the aftermath of the disappearance, if the intruder theory was that strong there seemed to be no climate supporting this in the neighborhood. Now...let me qualify your comment a little bit...I think it is entirely possible that the "intruder" may have been someone she knew and further knew he "stopped by" announced. So, that could explain her sending Lillian off...

Do we know that Lillian was sent off, or did she just get permission before heading off on her own?

 

[dogperson]

Do we know that Lillian was sent off, or did she just get permission before heading off on her own?

She took Lillian, along with the neighbor's son, back over to the neighbor's house and said she'd be back in a minute. Whatever was going on, she must have thought she could take care of it quickly, whether it was a physical problem or an unexpected visitor. I still think it's doubtful she was attacked because she was only seen alone. If he attacked her he must have run away leaving her alive (and able to tell on him, for all he knew).

 

[scruffydog]

This a strange thought, but I wonder if Joan's 2 children were both really fathered by her husband. DNA results would have been interesting...I don't think Joan ran away, I think it was a very personal attack. It seems to me like she knew her attacker...I'm wondering about previous boyfriends? (I'm sorry if this idea has been discussed already).

 

[Skigirl]

She took Lillian, along with the neighbor's son, back over to the neighbor's house and said she'd be back in a minute. Whatever was going on, she must have thought she could take care of it quickly, whether it was a physical problem or an unexpected visitor. I still think it's doubtful she was attacked because she was only seen alone. If he attacked her he must have run away leaving her alive (and able to tell on him, for all he knew).

I'm sorry to be "that person" but I do not remember the detail about Joan saying she would be back soon. Just that Lillian went back to the neighbor after being taken home earlier. Can you please link to the original source of that information?

 

[Skigirl]

I just looked at http://www.truth-link.org/pdfs/imgall.pdf, and Mrs. Barker's statement is that Joan brought David over in the morning so that Mrs. Barker could watch him during Joan's dentist appointment. Joan returned at around 11 AM and collected David.

Later, Mrs. Barker's 4-year-old son went over to Joan's house to play with Lillian, and then after that, Lillian came over saying she had permission from her mother.

At 3:45 PM, Mrs. Barker walked Lillian back to Joan's house because she needed to run some errands. Upon Mrs. Barker's return around a half an hour later, at 4:15, Lillian "came in" and told Mrs. Barker that she couldn't find her mommy, that David was "in bed" and that the place was "messed up".

 

[dogperson]

It was in the Wikipedia article that the neighbor said Joan brought the children back over to her house and said she would be back.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Joan_Risch

According to various accounts, the story seems to differ, so I don't know how it really happened.

 

[Skigirl]

It was in the Wikipedia article that the neighbor said Joan brought the children back over to her house and said she would be back.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Joan_Risch

According to various accounts, the story seems to differ, so I don't know how it really happened.

Wikipedia isn't the best source, IMHO -- it's not a primary source and it's not MSM. I think the original statement, written at the time of the disappearance, is much more reliable.

 

[Skigirl]

Ok, so that same PDF that has the original police report also has a copy of the article cited by Wikipedia. The article is entitled, "Timetable of vital day in the life of Joan Risch," Boston Record American, Jan 3, 1962. The article says that Joan walked Lillian and David over to the Barkers said that her mother said she would be back. Baker did not report seeing Joan or speaking with her, nor did she report David being over, or being told that she would be back "soon" or anything like that.

Since the journalist probably did not interview 4-year-old Lillian, I have to wonder if s/he just got that wrong, since it's the only contemporary source I know of that claimed that Joan said "I'll be back" to her daughter.

I highly recommend reading that entire article and all of the original sources because it also has a lot of other details that may or may not be true, including sightings of a car in the driveway from a school bus.

 

[scruffydog]

I feel that LE should go back to step 1 on this case. They should re-interview the daughter, the neighbor, and comb over the husband's statement.....this is not a crime done by a stranger. I think that the statements about a bloody lady walking along a road are ridiculous...I would stop...wouldn't you???

 

[jgfitzge]

I feel that LE should go back to step 1 on this case. They should re-interview the daughter, the neighbor, and comb over the husband's statement.....this is not a crime done by a stranger. I think that the statements about a bloody lady walking along a road are ridiculous...I would stop...wouldn't you???

I understand your frustration and honestly missed opportunities, lack of follow up, and just plain old "let's not go there" are all common elements in a lot of these older cold cases and disappearances. Like someone else said, the only hope may be a death bead confession at this point. The only problem with re-interviewing is their age...Last I checked the Barkers are still alive but I think they are late 80s or 90. On your other points...I don't believe it was random or a stranger...As far as the statements of the lady walking along the road, Sorry, but I 100% believe them. If it was one I might go along with you. But, three independent eyewitnesses? I cannot explain no one pulling over, but, come on people not coming to the aid of someone in trouble is not exactly a new phenomenon...

 

[jgfitzge]

Regarding this website, http://truth-link.org/summary.html, It looks like the former site went dormant for several months and got replaced by this one. I checked it out a few times to see if the owner had any new updates. It is the same pdf, repackaged. The blog menu has become full of spam and telemarketing entries. Once again I reached out to the owner and received no response.

 

[DetectiveEva]

Regarding this website, http://truth-link.org/summary.html, It looks like the former site went dormant for several months and got replaced by this one. I checked it out a few times to see if the owner had any new updates. It is the same pdf, repackaged. The blog menu has become full of spam and telemarketing entries. Once again I reached out to the owner and received no response.

This new page identified the persons who are responsible for Joan's disappearance and her murdery.
But no more informations than in the old pdf.

Can these tips be checked by police? Finally.

In my country it is not allowed to accuse anybody if there are no strong evidences. As a minimum, a person running this type of website would be questioned by the police.

 

[dogperson]

That website is quite strange and doesn't really give any information. Why would Joan's neighbors want to kill her? Who would even have been home at that time of day...housewives? Kids? What would be the reason for a conspiracy to murder her? The Risch family wasn't well off enough to make kidnapping her for ransom worth it, were they?

 

[Skigirl]

That website is quite strange and doesn't really give any information. Why would Joan's neighbors want to kill her? Who would even have been home at that time of day...housewives? Kids? What would be the reason for a conspiracy to murder her? The Risch family wasn't well off enough to make kidnapping her for ransom worth it, were they?

I think that some of the information that that person dug up is really interesting; the PDF includes what I believe to be real police call logs, interview notes and the like. My understanding is that he paid for a lot of FOIA requests with the plan of making a documentary or writing a book. Where I think things went off the rails is in the conclusions. He's been pointing to that little plot of land for years without saying why she would be buried there. It's sort of implied it had something to do with wanting to sell the land, the park that went in where that neighborhood is, eminent domain, and the neighbors wanting to consolidate land around their house, but it's not clear what he thinks the connection is. Just as well, since it seems pretty unlikely that that was Joan's fate (though stranger things have happened). I just wish he'd make more of the primary source material that he's gathered available.

 

[jgfitzge]

Coming up on the anniversary, October 24, 1961...the day Joan Risch disappeared. This one is always present whenever a media outlet presents a Massachusetts Top Ten Unsolved Mysteries. So, as I drive home from work on these beautiful New England autumn days I find myself thinking what the hell happened to Joan Risch. So many theories..so many forks in the road, trying to solve it has become like a cruel game of Clue. I think at this point unless there is some death bed confession or note left, it will remain a mystery and like that famous Donovan song goes, "try and catch the wind..."

 

[silverjug]

This has always fascinated me and I cannot see it being solved either. One thing that has puzzled me is that if it was Joan walking along the road with blood on her legs, why did no one stop and offer help? 1961 was a whole different time (and though I am in the UK), people would give lifts and offers of help more freely.

 

[jgfitzge]

This has always fascinated me and I cannot see it being solved either. One thing that has puzzled me is that if it was Joan walking along the road with blood on her legs, why did no one stop and offer help? 1961 was a whole different time (and though I am in the UK), people would give lifts and offers of help more freely.

Hi, I realize the three sightings would bring about that question of why no one stopping to help. However people not stopping to help someone no matter what era, is not unheard of. The other thing that crossed my mind Is perhaps the woman walking along the highway looked more like a curiosity (homeless?) then in actual trouble.