MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #10

[TTF14]

Stream of consciousness questions.

Why did KR not want JOK to go to the party and she definitely did NOT want to go to the party? My guess is that he had already questioned her about "hooking up with Brian Higgins, so he was suspicious. She ignored BH at the bar, strategically. He even texted her like "ummm...what's going on" or something to that effect. He was obviously drinking heavily and he and BA were play fighting, etc...at the bar.

They end up at the house, JOK walks in and is guided down the stairs and perhaps HE is the one that confronts BH about messing with his girlfriend. BA gets in the middle of it and a fight ensues. Chloe gets in the middle and somehow, in the process, JOK falls and hits his head on something and either dies or is unconscious. Maybe they leave him down there and act natural until everyone leaves and JMc goes to bed.

BA and BH carry him out of the house and leave him on the front lawn. Not sure if and when the kid was or wasn't involved, but he does seem pretty sketchy to me. Undecided. Maybe they felt they could attribute it to him getting hit by a car or getting drunk and falling. I don't think there was a "plan." Just get him OUT of the house!

Why would they do that, even if it was an accident and JOK "started it?"

Well, I believe they thought they'd get blamed, or the dog/homeowner would get blamed or whatever. They didn't like KR so figured she'd probably take the hit for hitting him, hit and run, maybe cop a plea and it would all go away. Things snowballed from there.

All I know is this. KR and BH were being flirtatious. Not sure if she was doing it just to get a rise out of JOK or what she was thinking because, well...ewww...JMO...but whatever.

So...KR did NOT want those 2 to meet up so she wanted to go home but didn't feel good and probably didn't want to see BH, so she wanted to avoid the party. But JOK persisted and off he went. What I "imagine" happened is that shortly after he arrived, whether he went straight to the basement or perhaps got called from the back yard, some words started getting exchanged.

JOK getting in BH's face for trying to get with his girl. BH saying hey man, she's the one after me I'll show you the texts. Things got a bit physical, maybe a couple of punches were thrown. Chloe went after JOK, who then fell and hit his head somewhere somehow. I think very few people know this is the truth. I don't know that I believe Jen McC or anyone else needs to be "in on it" at all. After that BA & BH crafted the narrative with the help of what JMc & Kerry told them and the rest was just a whole bunch of confirmation bias and crooked copwork.

JMO

Agree. But I also think he may have been actually hit on the back of his head with something, maybe even to get him off someone HE was assaulting.

I think the coverup was done to save jobs/pensions and to save an 18 year old kid from going to prison for taking part in killing a cop (and being charged as an adult).

JMO MOO

 

[keek]

Sounds like JMc was up all night really, Higgins pretty much and who knows about the others and they're pretty much AWAKE and at it. The people that never sleep, if they've got other things they need to attend to, my, my, my, hmmm.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Marie A. Russell

soft tissue wounds and infections – gunshot wounds, stab wounds, patterned wounds wound ballistics dog bites, law enforcement and civilian gang violence nonverbal gang communication – the forensic significance of tattoos, graffiti. hand signs and dress (“colors”) forensic significance of gang...

today.usc.edu

Expertise​

• soft tissue wounds and infections - gunshot wounds, stab wounds, patterned wounds
• wound ballistics
• dog bites, law enforcement and civilian
• gang violence
• nonverbal gang communication -the forensic significance of tattoos,graffiti. hand signs and dress ("colors")
• forensic significance of gang graffiti,dress and tattoos
• domestic violence - elder abuse,child abuse
• homicide and serial homicide
• gunshot, stab and patterned wounds
• correctional (jail) medicine
• police abuse
• police procedures and techniques -pepper spray, restraint procedures,Taser
• forensic pathology
• clinical forensic medicine

Additional Information​

• Fellow, American College of Emergency Physicians Consultant, Los Angeles Regional Poison Control Center

Police abuse.

Also, at link. Here are the positions she holds currently:

• Assistant Professor of Emergency Medicine and Clinical
• Assistant Professor of Pathology, Keck School of Medicine and LAC+USC Medical Center
• Director, Center for Life Support Training and Research
• Director, Clinical Forensic Medicine Program

BBM

 

[TTF14]

Don't laugh at me for these dumb questions since I have watched the trial..... Which direction was Karen's car pointing when she dropped JOK off? Pointing toward the flagpole, right? The flagpole that is on the opposite side of the house as the driveway? Karen would have dropped JOK off at the driveway, one would assume. But he ended up at the flagpole? AFTER she said outside for 15 minutes texting him? Are they saying she turned around (K turn) and THEN backed into him, sending him flying into the flagpole area from the driveway area? Did she have to turn around to go home? Is that a dead end street (no pun)/cul-de-sac? If I'd paid better attention to some of the more boring testimony, I'd know the answers, I'm sure....

Thanks in advance.

 

[keek]

It has been described, her actions regarding driving and leaving but of course I don't remember to tell you, but it was not a cul de sac nor dead end.

 

[mzmarymac]

Oddly enough, just as I was reading your post, I watch watching a Court TV YouTube video from 5 months ago about this case. Vinnie had a few people on, including Melanie Little, who said she'd never seen it in 30 years.

Having not followed this case until the trial started, I'm shocked they went ahead with trial after the feds got involved. For those of you who have been following since the beginning, is that kindof the consensus? Did most of you think there was no way this was going to trial?

I've been wondering about the destroyed cell phones and the dodgieness of not wanting to share anything on them or give them up. Makes me wonder what other kinds of things these guys had going on behind the scenes that the FBI might be interested other than just this case.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Agree. But I also think he may have been actually hit on the back of his head with something, maybe even to get him off someone HE was assaulting.

I think the coverup was done to save jobs/pensions and to save an 18 year old kid from going to prison for taking part in killing a cop (and being charged as an adult).

JMO MOO

Three drunk cops and "Bang Bang, KO" Colin. In the basement with Chloe and a bunch of free weights. Unless Colonel Mustard was in the Library with the Candlestick. (They seriously had a library at 34 Fairview!)

Without getting into deep speculation, I think Karen was WAS the cause of the fight and Higgins may have been the catalyst. I don't think BA would cover for BH, but if his beloved little nephew is the one who dealt the fatal blow to John's head and he and BH then panicked, it does make sense.

No one talks about John's bruised fists. To me they've always been indicative of a fistfight with John warding off blows.

 

[Chelly]

@mrjitty Spot on. It’s a head scratcher.

Being local to the case I don’t know anyone who thinks this should have gone to trial.
It has exposed a lot of “dysfunction” shall I say in the judicial system and LE here in Massachusetts. That “ dysfunction” was always an open secret anyway though in certain towns etc. But…
Putting it all on screen for the world to see shows an amazing lack of self awareness by the Judge etc.
Both sides( p&d) ask the Judge to push the trial out until the fbi finished their investigation but the Judge said No let’s get to trial!
Maybe the Judge fancies herself with a judge judy like career after this from her tv exposure or some other reality show.
IMO She is not smart enough to be so snarky - it comes off as terribly self serving and she is often off the mark. She is def no match for the D.
It’s quite depressing sham actually.
Lally floundering, O’Keefe’s looking for a pound of flesh from KR whether or not the evidence points at her
Federal employees destroying evidence, on and on.
Total embarrassment and disrespectful to the deceased.
All JMO

@waldojabba I'd say you are showing astonishing grace politely referring to the area's LE and powers-that-be as merely dysfunctional. I lived my entire life until retirement a bit south of Boston, We used to use words less kind to describe the legal system. Those open secrets are becoming less secret it seems. MOO

 

[TTF14]

Sounds like JMc was up all night really, Higgins pretty much and who knows about the others and they're pretty much AWAKE and at it. The people that never sleep, if they've got other things they need to attend to, my, my, my, hmmm.

Don't forget the butt dials because of making whoopie! Channeling my Bob Eubanks....

IMO MOO

 

[keek]

Kerri said that blankets from her car were placed on him at the scene, but don't know if the EMT really did remember as a jacket.

 

[TTF14]

I don't think BA would cover for BH, but if his beloved little nephew is the one who dealt the fatal blow to John's head and he and BH then panicked, it does make sense.

Yes. I don't think anyone set out that night to kill anyone. But having a charge of that magnitude on your record at age 18.....life changing and in the worst way.

On another note, I just rewatched this and this woman is the poster child for shaking your head no when saying yes, and vice versa.

IMO MOO

 

[mzmarymac]

I don’t believe he had a coat. All video of him at the bars show no coat. I think the ems person was mistaken. One thing I wondered re stains and the dna- Don’t these cops have their dna on file? As well as prints ? They said the others were unidentified. Could be from anything imo.

Could someone have put a coat on him to try to "warm him up?"

 

[ch_13]

Don't laugh at me for these dumb questions since I have watched the trial..... Which direction was Karen's car pointing when she dropped JOK off? Pointing toward the flagpole, right? The flagpole that is on the opposite side of the house as the driveway? Karen would have dropped JOK off at the driveway, one would assume. But he ended up at the flagpole? AFTER she said outside for 15 minutes texting him? Are they saying she turned around (K turn) and THEN backed into him, sending him flying into the flagpole area from the driveway area? Did she have to turn around to go home? Is that a dead end street (no pun)/cul-de-sac? If I'd paid better attention to some of the more boring testimony, I'd know the answers, I'm sure....

Thanks in advance.

The car was pointing south (front towards the flagpole, back towards the driveway) but we really don't know exactly she was parked at the time he got out of the car.

However, here's another question: Why was he in the road at all? The passenger door was facing the yard. Wouldn't he just walk across the ground to the door and enter the house? She should have never even had the opportunity to hit him without driving her car onto the lawn.

 

[TTF14]

The car was pointing south (front towards the flagpole, back towards the driveway) but we really don't know exactly she was parked at the time he got out of the car.

However, here's another question: Why was he in the road at all? The passenger door was facing the yard. Wouldn't he just walk across the ground to the door and enter the house? She should have never even had the opportunity to hit him without driving her car onto the lawn.

I'm picturing him walking up the driveway to the house. But, even if he used the lawn....none of this makes sense.

I wonder if the original plan was to say she hit him head on with her car. But then when they saw her cracked taillight they decided to go that route instead.

 

[keek]

Three drunk cops and "Bang Bang, KO" Colin. In the basement with Chloe and a bunch of free weights. Unless Colonel Mustard was in the Library with the Candlestick. (They seriously had a library at 34 Fairview!)

Without getting into deep speculation, I think Karen was WAS the cause of the fight and Higgins may have been the catalyst. I don't think BA would cover for BH, but if his beloved little nephew is the one who dealt the fatal blow to John's head and he and BH then panicked, it does make sense.

No one talks about John's bruised fists. To me they've always been indicative of a fistfight with John warding off blows.

I choked myself when saw library.

 

[KSwizzle]

I mean, who among us hasn't cut through a military base to dispose of our SIM card and phone, then switch phone providers and get a new phone number

 

[keek]

I mean, who among us hasn't cut through a military base to dispose of our SIM card and phone, then switch phone providers and get a new phone number

It is the only responsible thing to do to protect yourself from ..........THE FBI haha.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

True, but any witnesses and evidence to be presented is supposed to be made clear to all parties prior to the trial commencing.
I believe the issue with Dr Russell in particular is about how she came to become involved in the case. Did she offer her services or was she brought in late by the defence.

The other two witnesses came in independently of both the Prosecution and the Defence, having been contracted by a third party (the FBI) and as such it's unlikely that the judge will find issue with them.



The crazy thing to me is that this trial wasn't thrown out early on or put on hold once the FBI became involved.

It's an incredible waste of money, time and resources.

And an egregious drain on the finances of the defendant and her parents. IMOO

 

[bobbymkii]

I wonder if the members of the grand jury regret their decision, or feel they weren't given the facts they needed?

Since I'm not an American, or a lawyer etc etc I don't exactly know what a grand jury is, but I'm really struggling to see how they authorised this indictment.

 

[keek]

Don't forget the butt dials because of making whoopie! Channeling my Bob Eubanks....

IMO MOO

Such a CRINGE show even then!