VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #15

[OldCop]

For fellow WSers who believe KR is guilty, is it because:
1) The CW proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt.
Or
2) You do not believe the alternative “conspiracy theory” so that leaves no other choice.

For those that select #1, what SPECIFIC evidence proves to you that KR killed JOK with her SUV?
ETA I am genuinely interested in the response to this. The SODDI defenses are often brought forth because there is good evidence that a crime was committed by someone other than the defendant. But sometimes, an alternative scenario is presented to a jury to try and get them to think outside the box. The defense attorneys’ “conspiracy theory” was, for the most part, their merely pointing out during cross examination, glaring instances of lies, poor investigative work, and police misconduct by the prosecution witnesses. Did that hurt the defense?

 

[Aquarian]

Well…

BH went out of his way to get to 34F (arriving before the Albert’s), plow the driveway (“as a joke”), text OJO to see whether he was coming or not, and then left shortly after arrival because the Albert’s weren’t offering his drink of choice.

I don’t recall BH texting JO that night. Maybe I’m overlooking other info?

Higgins said at the Waterfall that night, he texted Read something like "ummm, well" and told the jury, "to be honest with you, it was a flirty text."

"Flirty" texts between Karen Read, Brian Higgins revealed in murder trial testimony

ATF agent Brian Higgins took the stand on Day 17 of testimony in the Karen Read case.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I do know that. I also know that you kind of have to prove it if you want the jury to consider it. Anyone can tell a story.

If the jury instructions were clear, and the jury takes those instructions to heart, the defense doesn't kind of have to prove it, and the burden of proof remains solely on the prosecution. I don't know how clear or unclear this judge's instructions tend to be.

 

[TTF14]

I think there needs to be a 6.

I don’t know if she is guilty or not guilty, but it has been proven that so many witnesses have been untruthful that I am unable to convict her so I’d be NG

This is where I am, too. We'll likely never know, which is terrible for JOK's family, but the Commonwealth did NOT prove their case. I don't think they'd try it again because of all of the lies told on the stand that a defense team could use to impeach the witnesses if they are called again.

IMO MOO

 

[Curiousobserver]

For fellow WSers who believe KR is guilty, is it because:
1) The CW proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt.
Or
2) You do not believe the alternative “conspiracy theory” so that leaves no other choice.

For those that select #1, what SPECIFIC evidence proves to you that KR killed JOK with her SUV?

Both 1 and 2

Charge #1 does not require that she hit him with her car, only that she took reckless actions with her car. But here is the evidence that she did hit him:

Her tail light was broken
Pieces of it at the scene
She speculated that she might have hit him, if you take the witnesses at their word she confessed at the scene
Clincher- tail light pieces on his clothing
He was found exactly where multiple witnesses said he was the prior night and his GPS agrees

Here is why I discount the defense rebuttal of those things.
Their own expert witness testified it would take a great deal of force to break the tail light, the bump in the driveway didn't do it. (in fact to me it looks like she hit it on purpose)
There were no pieces of tail light in JO's driveway, there is video evidence from the ring camera of that of that.
There is dashcam video of police pulling in the driveway where the lens in clearly missing by 8:20am (before Proctor had it at the Sallyport.
You can plainly see the jagged edge of the large missing pieces as she drives down the driveway on the ring cam at 5am.
These things completely blow apart the planted evidence claim.
Why don't I give a lot of credit to the FBI's expert? They tested a limited number of scenarios which were not at all exhaustive of the ways this could have happened, specifically that JO may have kicked the lens and then he got hit with the car.

 

[TTF14]

For fellow WSers who believe KR is guilty, is it because:
1) The CW proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt.
Or
2) You do not believe the alternative “conspiracy theory” so that leaves no other choice.

For those that select #1, what SPECIFIC evidence proves to you that KR killed JOK with her SUV?
ETA I am genuinely interested in the response to this. The SODDI defenses are often brought forth because there is good evidence that a crime was committed by someone other than the defendant. But sometimes, an alternative scenario is presented to a jury to try and get them to think outside the box. The defense attorneys’ “conspiracy theory” was, for the most part, their merely pointing out during cross examination, glaring instances of lies, poor investigative work, and police misconduct by the prosecution witnesses. Did that hurt the defense?

Such a great post!! Save this exact post for when the Delphi jury is deliberating, too! Same issues.

IMO MOO

 

[Maat99]

I don’t recall BH texting JO that night. Maybe I’m overlooking other info?

Higgins said at the Waterfall that night, he texted Read something like "ummm, well" and told the jury, "to be honest with you, it was a flirty text."

"Flirty" texts between Karen Read, Brian Higgins revealed in murder trial testimony

ATF agent Brian Higgins took the stand on Day 17 of testimony in the Karen Read case.

www.cbsnews.com

BH texted “Where are you” to JO that night.

ATF agent Brian Higgins testifies in Karen Read trial

ATF agent Brian Higgins testified in the Karen Read trial Friday, spending hours on the stand between the prosecution and defense questioning.

www.nbcboston.com

 

[OldCop]

something about BH on cross ...his demeanor....this guys knows so much more....so very much.

Yes, and in the middle of all the other problems with case, he is sliding under the radar.

 

[OldCop]

Such a great post!! Save this exact post for when the Delphi jury is deliberating, too! Same issues.

IMO MOO

Oh gee. Delphi! I have been staying away from all the drama over there. I know I’ll get sucked into that trial just like I have with this one. More months out of my life.

 

[Aquarian]

BH texted “Where are you” to JO that night.

ATF agent Brian Higgins testifies in Karen Read trial

ATF agent Brian Higgins testified in the Karen Read trial Friday, spending hours on the stand between the prosecution and defense questioning.

www.nbcboston.com

Thanks

 

[Moonsie]

Jury instructions are (or have been) common grounds for appeal, so afaik most jurisdictions have “pattern” or “model” instructions on issues that are common to criminal trials such as reasonable doubt. This not only streamlines drafting the instructions but also reflects established case law on the issues in the instructions.

retired lawyer/moo.

 

[OldCop]

Both 1 and 2

Charge #1 does not require that she hit him with her car, only that she took reckless actions with her car. But here is the evidence that she did hit him:

Her tail light was broken
Pieces of it at the scene
She speculated that she might have hit him, if you take the witnesses at their word she confessed at the scene
Clincher- tail light pieces on his clothing
He was found exactly where multiple witnesses said he was the prior night and his GPS agrees

Here is why I discount the defense rebuttal of those things.
Their own expert witness testified it would take a great deal of force to break the tail light, the bump in the driveway didn't do it. (in fact to me it looks like she hit it on purpose)
There were no pieces of tail light in JO's driveway, there is video evidence from the ring camera of that of that.
There is dashcam video of police pulling in the driveway where the lens in clearly missing by 8:20am (before Proctor had it at the Sallyport.
You can plainly see the jagged edge of the large missing pieces as she drives down the driveway on the ring cam at 5am.
These things completely blow apart the planted evidence claim.
Why don't I give a lot of credit to the FBI's expert? They tested a limited number of scenarios which were not at all exhaustive of the ways this could have happened, specifically that JO may have kicked the lens and then he got hit with the car.

Thanks for your well thought out post, @Curiousobserver. I appreciate your thoughts.
A lot of your decision is made around the broken taillight. There were other taillight pieces found at the scene that did not belong to KR’s SUV. Were the vehicles of the many drunk drivers who were at 34 Fairview Rd that night examined for any damage?
My main response to your conclusion is based on your statement: Charge #1 does not require that she hit him with her car, only that she took reckless actions with her car.
Under that theory, the CW would not have to prove she killed him?

JOK is dead.
KR drove recklessly.
Therefore KR killed JOK?

Thanks again for giving us your thought processes on this.

 

[shotgun09]

If I may ask respectfully of the KR is Guilty posters, Which CW witness do you feel was most effective in solidifying Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt? Thanks

 

[Misy]

Watched Higgins cross again yesterday...wow is all I can say. One thing I noticed more carefully was the constant whispering between KR and the attorneys....lots of laughs involved and mouthing words to someone behind her..I assume her dad? Jury was in room during much of this. She has been given a "star" status by the supporters and marches in daily again as if she is some "star". Don't like the vibe of this but still want a NG.

I saw a reporter ask KR if she was going to testify in her own defense. She answered that she’s leaving that decision to her counsel, but said she would like to in order to right all the lies that have come in. At the time I was thinking she was referring to BH (among others probably). JMO

 

[kittythehare]

Watched Higgins cross again yesterday...wow is all I can say. One thing I noticed more carefully was the constant whispering between KR and the attorneys....lots of laughs involved and mouthing words to someone behind her..I assume her dad? Jury was in room during much of this. She has been given a "star" status by the supporters and marches in daily again as if she is some "star". Don't like the vibe of this but still want a NG.

more on BH

Karen Read trial: Read kissed Brian Higgins 2 weeks before O’Keefe’s death

In bombshell testimony Friday, special agent Brian Higgins spoke about his romantic relationship with Karen Read in the weeks before her boyfriend's death.

www.masslive.com

 

[TTF14]

Jury instructions are (or have been) common grounds for appeal

RSBM

Didn't know that! Thank you for your insight.

 

[Moonsie]

KR could’ve gone on a nude cruise with BH and it still wouldn’t change the fact (for me at least) that the CW utterly failed to prove ANY elements of its case BARD.

moo.

 

[themonk]

If I may ask respectfully of the KR is Guilty posters, Which CW witness do you feel was most effective in solidifying Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt? Thanks

excellent question. IMO the CW witnesses were consistently laughable.

 

[themonk]

KR could’ve gone on a nude cruise with BH and it still wouldn’t change the fact (for me at least) that the CW utterly failed to prove ANY elements of its case BARD.

moo.

Somewhere, Michael Proctor's ears prick up

 

[fcavanaugh]

DBM