MISTRIAL MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #19

[keek]

I disagree with this. He had 2 black eyes and a big bruise on his right hand.

Don't forget the pointed, teeth marks from his elbow and arm area, the small, small holes in the same area, on his shirt.

 

[turaj]

just a quick question....is the voir dire of jurors going to be streamed.? At least audio?

 

[HarmonyE.]

just a quick question....is the voir dire of jurors going to be streamed.? At least audio?

No. We will neither see nor hear any of this.

 

[turaj]

No. We will neither see nor hear any of this.

Thanks that could take some time to get the jury.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Thanks that could take some time to get the jury.

Took about 2 weeks the last time. Anticipated to take longer this time now that this case has received considerably more national attention.

 

[TDoc72]

How much bruising would there be if Read just bumped JOK, he lost his balance and fell backward onto the ice and snow ? Maybe JOK threw the Waterfall glass in anger at the Lexus and it broke the taillight. Maybe Read continued to backup over JOK after he was already down. She seemed to think she hit him but now says she didn't.

Point is the only two there were JOK and Read's now saying she didn't hit him. Both of them were intoxicated.
Does anyone really think Read was in control of the vehicle after drinking so much ? Or that she even knew JOK was
possibly behind her SUV ?

Only Read knows and everyone else including ARCCA is speculating.

Re:backing up

IIRC, didn’t one of the younger witnesses testify that he saw her alone in the car, no JO anywhere, and that she didn’t back up, she drove off?

 

[twhel]

In her testimony she explained she had pieces that did not fit in with that taillight.

Having now listened to Ashley Vallier's testimony in full, I respectfully suggest that is not the significance of her testimony. And it's not a significance that KR's own defense attempted to draw out on cross examination.

What AV said is that there were a number of pieces of which she could not make a successful fit in her "jigsaw puzzle" exercise. Given the shattered condition of the tail light, that is not surprising. AV mentioned that a number of pieces were so small as to make any attempt at puzzle-fitting a non-starter. And, even with respect to the somewhat larger pieces, it's plausible (even inevitable) that some of these pieces will lack a suitable connection, given that some portion of the tail light is shattered to bits and other portions likely missing.

It is entirely consistent with AV's testimony that all of the pieces submitted to her came from KR's tail light. On cross, Yanetti's only questions directed at the "jigsaw puzzle" exercise sought to point out that there was a significant section missing. He did not attempt to suggest that the non-puzzle-fitting pieces did not come from KR's vehicle.

 

[amiaw]

This case keeps getting more convoluted. Wouldn't that be like having an insider who was privy to jury discussions? The same discussions as this jury will surely have?

Ms George was an alternate juror. She was not involved in the deliberations.

 

[amiaw]

She didn't discuss anything with the first jury. The judge kicked her out during the trial.

Sounds like the defense will be using her to assist with jury selection.

she wasn't kicked out, she was an alternate

 

[jepop]

How much bruising would there be if Read just bumped JOK, he lost his balance and fell backward onto the ice and snow ? Maybe JOK threw the Waterfall glass in anger at the Lexus and it broke the taillight. Maybe Read continued to backup over JOK after he was already down. She seemed to think she hit him but now says she didn't.

Point is the only two there were JOK and Read's now saying she didn't hit him. Both of them were intoxicated.
Does anyone really think Read was in control of the vehicle after drinking so much ? Or that she even knew JOK was
possibly behind her SUV ?

Only Read knows and everyone else including ARCCA is speculating.

That theory makes no sense in terms of where his body was located. It does not account for the arm wounds. It does not account for the nature of the head wound which all medical experts testified would have rendered JO unconscious. There was no damage to the Lexus beyond the tail light and zero evidence that JOK was run over. There was no undercarriage damage. No skin or blood on the underside or tyres.

I'm looking at the physical evidence and not muddying the waters with the exaggerations and lies of J Mc when under oath. Jmo

 

[Forest_Wood]

Exclusive: A Juror From Karen Read’s First Murder Trial Has Joined Her Defense Team

In her only interview, Victoria George told VF, “I waited for nearly a year after the mistrial, hoping the court system would work as intended to remedy some of the wrongs in this case.”

www.vanityfair.com

A well-written article about how Victoria George, the alternate juror and lawyer, became involved with the defense of Karen Read.

 

[mrjitty]

Having now listened to Ashley Vallier's testimony in full, I respectfully suggest that is not the significance of her testimony. And it's not a significance that KR's own defense attempted to draw out on cross examination.

What AV said is that there were a number of pieces of which she could not make a successful fit in her "jigsaw puzzle" exercise. Given the shattered condition of the tail light, that is not surprising. AV mentioned that a number of pieces were so small as to make any attempt at puzzle-fitting a non-starter. And, even with respect to the somewhat larger pieces, it's plausible (even inevitable) that some of these pieces will lack a suitable connection, given that some portion of the tail light is shattered to bits and other portions likely missing.

It is entirely consistent with AV's testimony that all of the pieces submitted to her came from KR's tail light. On cross, Yanetti's only questions directed at the "jigsaw puzzle" exercise sought to point out that there was a significant section missing. He did not attempt to suggest that the non-puzzle-fitting pieces did not come from KR's vehicle.

Thank you for this summary!

 

[mrjitty]

So this hearing was super interesting for law anoraks

Short recap, Brennan is trying to get access to communications from the Turtle Boy case. The Judge ordered that the prosecutor in that case turn over only comms between Reid and TB. However the response included comms between the whole Reid defence team (i.e. the lawyers), and TB, and led to an argument about whether that stuff is privileged and whether there is a joint defence.

In the end the Judge cut all that off at the pass and said his order only applies to comms between Reid personally, and TB. (How that works when others are in cc i didn't follow).

If you want to get conspiratorial, the theory is that Brennan 'knows things' from the TB case and now wants to know them legally so he can use them in this trial.

The defence also alleges that the CW in the TB case has been leaking things. That part was taken under advisement.

What I will say, is I hope this serves as a warning to D teams about leaking to ad hoc lawtubers. Those people can end up being a weak point that gives access to your internal comms if they do crimes! Delphi was another recent example of this.

IMO

 

[Tortoise]

Thank you for this summary!

Yeah, it would have been massive if the only pieces of taillight found on scene without Proctor's involvement were not from KR's taillight but all the later pieces were. Defense would have been all over it like a bad rash.

 

[mrjitty]

Yeah, it would have been massive if the only pieces of taillight found on scene without Proctor's involvement were not from KR's taillight but all the later pieces were. Defense would have been all over it like a bad rash.

As we go into trial I am now much less convinced that the tail light pieces found by SERT could have been planted by Proctor. The problem is they are clearly missing in the dashcam footage. So if they didn't come out at 34, they must have been elsewhere - so where could Proctor have got them?

They would have had to be all over JOK's driveway - but wouldn't people have noticed that?

IMO

 

[Tortoise]

As we go into trial I am now much less convinced that the tail light pieces found by SERT could have been planted by Proctor. The problem is they are clearly missing in the dashcam footage. So if they didn't come out at 34, they must have been elsewhere - so where could Proctor have got them?

They would have had to be all over JOK's driveway - but wouldn't people have noticed that?

IMO

It's all rubbish I tell ya.

KR's taillight at the scene on Fairview shows she broke it there.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

It's all rubbish I tell ya.

KR's taillight at the scene on Fairview shows she broke it there.

JMO

Which is where I am stuck because I can't reconcile the taillight debris with the ARCA witnesses who had no skin in the game. So something is wrong somewhere, OR something strange happened.

This is why I am intrigued by the ARCA expert who built his own cannon to fire the glass at the taillight and achieved similar results.

Is this just a truly bizarre fact pattern? After all, there is no particular reason why JOK could not have been bitten by a dog outside?

 

[Tortoise]

Which is where I am stuck because I can't reconcile the taillight debris with the ARCA witnesses who had no skin in the game. So something is wrong somewhere, OR something strange happened.

This is why I am intrigued by the ARCA expert who built his own cannon to fire the glass at the taillight and achieved similar results.

Is this just a truly bizarre fact pattern? After all, there is no particular reason why JOK could not have been bitten by a dog outside?

I don't believe he was bitten by a dog. I agree something bizarre happened, involving KR's vehicle. I'm not sure she knew what she had done, but I don't know, maybe she did, cos she went straight to him. JMO

 

[Sustained]

Re:backing up

IIRC, didn’t one of the younger witnesses testify that he saw her alone in the car, no JO anywhere, and that she didn’t back up, she drove off?

Then why did the Lexus telemetry system show KR backing up at 24mph ?

 

[Forest_Wood]

I am going to wait for trial and see if that comes up, but i think if there was a photo of the tail light from the moment of seizure, then it would really resolve all of this can or worms one way or or the other.

It's really extraordinary that a photograph was not taken of that tail light when they picked the Lexus up in her parents yard to tow it, and again when it arrived at the sallyport. Unbelievable really. At what point did they begin taking photos of it?