MISTRIAL MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #19

[angkg]

@Wishbone Agreed that there is much more behind the "curtain" jmo

I wish we knew what exactly

 

[keek]

I wish we knew what exactly

Nothing good and normal to decent law abiding society.

 

[Forest_Wood]

I wish we knew what exactly

Here's my thoughts about that. This judge must be familiar with the substandard way in which the DA and ADA build cases in the region over which she presides. She would be accustomed to the way LE in her area investigates cases because she has seen them all perform in her courtroom before many times I would imagine. If she is used to not having to work very hard at her job because it's never been questioned before, I imagine she resents the extra burden it puts on her daily work life. Also, she must know some of these law enforcement, medical personnel, and legal colleagues personally from working with them over many years and living in the same community. Karen Read and her attorneys come in with an amazing work ethic and dig up all this extra stuff on people in her own community, these so-called law abiding citizens who serve the community and who've never been questioned or held accountable before now. So, I see this judge as being very intimidated by Karen Read and all she and her lawyers stand for, and possibly feeling as though she would have to prove herself competent for maybe the first time in a very long time. It would add a lot of pressure and stress (and maybe performance anxiety) to her humdrum style of work. JMO.

 

[Wishbone]

I agree in with your main part that the D is fine without the one witness altho I dont think the Judge ruled properly.
And yes this trial is about the Charges against Karen Reed. But lets be real, you INVESTIGATE before you come up with CHARGES. And if the investigation was fubar ( pretty much imo) the charges resulting from it may also be fubar.
Since the charges stem from the investigation its pretty important to address the investigation. Just my thoughts.

The 6th amendment gives the defendant the right to call expert witnesses. This could very well end up an appeal matter.JMOO

 

[keek]

Here's my thoughts about that. This judge must be familiar with the substandard way in which the DA and ADA build cases in the region over which she presides. She would be accustomed to the way LE in her area investigates cases because she has seen them all perform in her courtroom before many times I would imagine. If she is used to not having to work very hard at her job because it's never been questioned before, I imagine she resents the extra burden it puts on her daily work life. Also, she must know some of these law enforcement, medical personnel, and legal colleagues personally from working with them over many years and living in the same community. Karen Read and her attorneys come in with an amazing work ethic and dig up all this extra stuff on people in her own community, these so-called law abiding citizens who serve the community and who've never been questioned or held accountable before now. So, I see this judge as being very intimidated by Karen Read and all she and her lawyers stand for, and possibly feeling as though she would have to prove herself competent for maybe the first time in a very long time. It would add a lot of pressure and stress (and maybe performance anxiety) to her humdrum style of work. JMO.

Well then, properly nailed it. It's a no brainer if you know the lay of the land and which way the wind blows as it is. The different levels. So clear right off.

 

[waldojabba]

brennan wants to know what their private messages were about. Fishing.

Yes @Wishbone IMO too - its fishing on the part of the P.
A side show to endeavor to create negative publicity for KR.
I try to avoid anything turtle related - to me its just all background noise.
Hopefully those dynamics dont interfere with the trial.
jmo

 

[sunshineray]

How about you do some research of the first trial and let us know? Even though I watched the trial after the fact, I can't recall how the Alberts explained that.

No need to as I've seen enough of the KR show, her lawyers included, to know which way the wind blows. If you don't know, you don't know. Someone else might. I do vaguely remember him, in the doc, maybe on the stand, being asked? IIRC he just struck me as not overly upset about getting his dog another home...very odd and distasteful to me personally. I just didn't recall if the catalyst to that happening was discussed.

I can see all the not necessarily pleasant humans involved in that last night of JOK's life. I can certainly see that the M's and the A's don't seem to be responsible for his being left in the snow to die from exposure. If in fact he did get bit, like some think, he would have probably left right afterwards and then faced KR's rage for making her wait so long. Her words told me that and told me over and over, she hit him. She also lied and said she left JOK at The Waterfall, so never at the house at all. I got to see KR in that doc, up close and personal. It was enlightening. I don't believe a word she says.

All the above is just AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

brennan wants to know what their private messages were about. Fishing.

Fishing because of witness tampering by someone already in the process of going to trial for it. If KR was texting him discovery and engaging with him to tamper by intimidation, not a good look for the defendant being innocent. MO

 

[Wishbone]

Fishing because of witness tampering by someone already in the process of going to trial for it. If KR was texting him discovery and engaging with him to tamper by intimidation, not a good look for the defendant being innocent. MO

I have heard nothing of the kind going on.

 

[sunshineray]

I watched the entire first trial. There were four or five experts who gave witness testimony on the 'hos long to die in cold' search, and they all contradicted each other. In the end I (imagining my self as a juror) discounted that particular piece of evidence.

Same as I discounted the fact that Jen McCabe came off as completely evil and conniving. So yes, I could totally imagine her making that search at 2:27am while waiting for JOK to die, and subsequently deleting the search, but that doesn't mean that she actually did. The evidence was just not clear.

Wow, 4 different techs and nobody could say at the end of it all who was right!? Hope they get better techs this time. Thanks for the info.

The pieces I got to see of JM's testimony in the doc, she did not come off as evil, IMO. She came off as someone enraged about being accused of knowing her friend was slowing dying outside in a blizzard and not lifting a finger to help him. That's not evil behavior, that's anger at being accused of something so dastardly. AJMO

 

[keek]

How about you do some research of the first trial and let us know? Even though I watched the trial after the fact, I can't recall how the Alberts explained that.

REALLY need to have watched the trial with all the witnesses and their explanations and fumbles for answers, along with the experts in their fields. We do know why the dog was sent off one way or another after several years, we watched it's owner explain it awayyyy. In the trial, under oath. Watching the actual legal trial shows one how things add up or do not, period. Preformed opinions seem rampant, mostly among the women and sadly it continues in this case, per their own words and phrases.

 

[sunshineray]

Here's my thoughts about that. This judge must be familiar with the substandard way in which the DA and ADA build cases in the region over which she presides. She would be accustomed to the way LE in her area investigates cases because she has seen them all perform in her courtroom before many times I would imagine. If she is used to not having to work very hard at her job because it's never been questioned before, I imagine she resents the extra burden it puts on her daily work life. Also, she must know some of these law enforcement, medical personnel, and legal colleagues personally from working with them over many years and living in the same community. Karen Read and her attorneys come in with an amazing work ethic and dig up all this extra stuff on people in her own community, these so-called law abiding citizens who serve the community and who've never been questioned or held accountable before now. So, I see this judge as being very intimidated by Karen Read and all she and her lawyers stand for, and possibly feeling as though she would have to prove herself competent for maybe the first time in a very long time. It would add a lot of pressure and stress (and maybe performance anxiety) to her humdrum style of work. JMO.

This all sounds like a big hate party on the greater Boston area PDs. No matter the geographical areas around many large cities, people hate the PDs and there are misdeeds and corruptions happening sometimes to earn that.

The death of JOK is not directly involved in that, MO. It's about a guy, a drunk guy, who was incapacitated outside in a blizzard. Odds are he was hit by a vehicle. Since KR admitted it and then lied about ever being there and considering her demeanor afterwards...my money is on she did it in a drunken rage, spur of the moment. Then unfortunately she went home and slept while her boyfriend laid outside dying. She waited too long to go back. A snow plow may have even been by during that time and contributed to the events unwittingly...but KR knew she hit him. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

Yes @Wishbone IMO too - its fishing on the part of the P.
A side show to endeavor to create negative publicity for KR.
I try to avoid anything turtle related - to me its just all background noise.
Hopefully those dynamics dont interfere with the trial.
jmo

TB inserted himself in the whole shebang. If he in fact had assistance from the defendant herself leaking him discovery, well that's not nothing. MO

 

[Sustained]

This all sounds like a big hate party on the greater Boston area PDs. No matter the geographical areas around many large cities, people hate the PDs and there are misdeeds and corruptions happening sometimes to earn that.

The death of JOK is not directly involved in that, MO. It's about a guy, a drunk guy, who was incapacitated outside in a blizzard. Odds are he was hit by a vehicle. Since KR admitted it and then lied about ever being there and considering her demeanor afterwards...my money is on she did it in a drunken rage, spur of the moment. Then unfortunately she went home and slept while her boyfriend laid outside dying. She waited too long to go back. A snow plow may have even been by during that time and contributed to the events unwittingly...but KR knew she hit him. AJMO

Read now says JOK went into the house. No one in the house testified to that and Julie Nagel testified they were all in the kitchen and dining room area including BA and BH.

Why did Read not mention that on the morning he was found ? Or question how he got back on the lawn after going into the house ? Simply put ... she couldn't because while first responders were at the scene as Jen McCabe was also there and would have called her out as lying.

 

[KNinTX]

Can we discuss KR's voicemails to JOK the night after she left the house? I've listened to them, as I'm sure most of us here on WS have.. She's objectively raging and furiously mad. Not in a sound frame of mind whatsoever, yet she was driving and drunk.

I realize that this is all conjecture (what I'm about to say, not what I mentioned previously), but if someone has that much rage inside of them and tries her best to downplay it in the documentary and to the jury.. why? We have all heard it, and it doesn't sound like the demure KR her expensive defense team has been paid to portray her to be.

It's always struck me as weird that the voicemails with her boozy hatred leaking while she was operating a vehicle hasn't carried more weight (hello - drinking and driving - it's okay for her but illegal for the rest of us?).

My hope is that his family gets justice and closure. I truly feel for them and for everyone who's been roped into this circus. #hoslongforjusticeforjohn

 

[Derph]

snips from Canton PD audit

Observations and Findings
Canton PD detectives did not have access to evidence collection kits (in Canton PD vehicles or at the Canton PD headquarters) to secure the blood evidence located near the body of Mr. O’Keefe at 34 Fairview Road. Canton PD detectives stated they only utilized solo cups as a last resort to preserve the forensic evidence until it was transferred to the MSP crime scene forensic unit.
The Audit Team found Canton PD did not follow policy and procedures related to evidence collection and preservation. The Audit Team found that there were no Bureau of Criminal Identification Unit(s) initially on scene, nor were crime scene kits available or used for evidence collection. [Note: According to the Massachusetts Crime Lab, plastic is not recommended for packaging or storing moist or wet evidence items due to the acceleration of the decomposition of biological materials on the evidence.]
• No photos were taken of John O’Keefe (exact location of where his body was found) by Canton PD
officers at 34 Fairview Road.
• Canton PD officers used personal phones to photograph and video the evidence collection at 34
Fairview Road. Pursuant to Canton PD policy, a digital camera or laptop computer should have been
used to photograph the crime scene.
• Canton PD first officer on the scene should have photographed John O’Keefe where he was found
before he was moved by fire rescue to the ambulance.
• Jennifer McCabe and Kerri Roberts should have been interviewed (and the interviews should have
been recorded) at the Canton PD after Mr. O’Keefe was taken to the hospital. Both witnesses
accompanied Ms. Read and drove with Ms. Read to 34 Fairview Road.
• Nicole and Brian Albert should have been interviewed at Canton PD.
• Both MSP and Canton PD failed to maintain police presence at 34 Fairview Road to maintain the
integrity of the crime scene. Both agencies should have coordinated to have an officer(s) maintain a presence at 34 Fairview Road, pending the second search by MSP.
The Audit Team found there was incomplete coordination requesting all video files in the custody of Canton PD regarding the Canton PD sallyport camera footage of Karen Read’s Lexus SUV. The vehicle was maintained from January 29, 2022, to February 2, 2022, at Canton PD.
ALL video footage (files) maintained on Canton PDs computer systems of Karen Read’s Lexus SUV while it was housed at Canton PD from January 29 through February 2, 2022, should have been requested and turned over early in the Karen Read case to lead investigators for any action as deemed appropriate.
Due to the blizzard conditions on the morning of January 29, 2022, and the coordination of personnel, the MSP waited until after 4:45 p.m. to begin coordinating a secondary search of the crime scene at 34 Fairview Road.
Each piece of evidence should be carefully logged and tracked to establish the timeline of its handling.
Officers should refrain from using personally owned phones to video or photograph crime scenes.
• Once evidence is processed, it should be stored in a secure and controlled environment, such as an evidence room with restricted access.
• If there is any doubt about the legal requirements, it is essential to consult with the department’s legal advisors to ensure the integrity of the investigation.

https://www.town.canton.ma.us/DocumentCenter/View/11832/Canton-Report-April-1-2025

The CW is going to have a MAJOR problem with this. It ain't the FBI but it is an independent investigation that is going to be brought up numerous times. Just throwing that on the pile of reasonable doubt and s***train of perjury from all the CW's witness's they called in the 1st trial and even with the judge in their back pocket, they have some steep mountains to overcome.

 

[Wishbone]

TB inserted himself in the whole shebang. If he in fact had assistance from the defendant herself leaking him discovery, well that's not nothing. MO

She can give him all the discovery she wants, its hers to give if she wants.

 

[Sustained]

The CW is going to have a MAJOR problem with this. It ain't the FBI but it is an independent investigation that is going to be brought up numerous times. Just throwing that on the pile of reasonable doubt and s***train of perjury from all the CW's witness's they called in the 1st trial and even with the judge in their back pocket, they have some steep mountains to overcome.

Hard to believe young folks like Julie Nagel and Sarah Levinson would run the risk of being jailed for perjury if indeed someone squealed and they were found to be lying. Not to mention ALL of the others who had to be coached to lie as well.

And I believe perjury is a felony in Massachusetts and would have to be mentioned in the future on job applications and other important documents.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

This all sounds like a big hate party on the greater Boston area PDs. No matter the geographical areas around many large cities, people hate the PDs and there are misdeeds and corruptions happening sometimes to earn that.

The death of JOK is not directly involved in that, MO. It's about a guy, a drunk guy, who was incapacitated outside in a blizzard. Odds are he was hit by a vehicle. Since KR admitted it and then lied about ever being there and considering her demeanor afterwards...my money is on she did it in a drunken rage, spur of the moment. Then unfortunately she went home and slept while her boyfriend laid outside dying. She waited too long to go back. A snow plow may have even been by during that time and contributed to the events unwittingly...but KR knew she hit him.

I totally agree with you.
I confess I haven’t followed this case much since after the first few weeks. My thoughts at that time were that she was drunk and he was drunk, everybody was drunk. She drove drunk in bad weather. She dropped him off and then, because she was drunk, she hit him while she was leaving. He lays there unconscious and dies. I felt then, and feel now, that she was probably overcharged. That was all
As far as any corruption in the Boston PD, that is for another day. I will admit though that any conspiracy theory whipped up by a guy who goes by the name, Turtleboy, does not move the needle for me.
I know that’s an unpopular opinion, but it’s mine.

 

[sunshineray]

She can give him all the discovery she wants, its hers to give if she wants.

She cannot, there's a gag order in place.