MISTRIAL MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #19

[StarryStarryNight]

Tell that to Proctor who said it and failed to investigate his friends the cops properly.

This trial is not about how bad the cops are in Boston.
The entire population can hold a torch and pitchfork parade against the police once this trial is over if they want.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Doesn't the gag order prevent discovery from being leaked so as not to try the case in the media but wait until the trial? You're saying that's only for the lawyers, not the client, they can leak anything they want, to whomever they want, with immunity?

I’m pretty sure KR would be under that gag order, so passing information along to that beacon of justice Turtleboy, would be a violation by her.

 

[Wishbone]

Doesn't the gag order prevent discovery from being leaked so as not to try the case in the media but wait until the trial? You're saying that's only for the lawyers, not the client, they can leak anything they want, to whomever they want, with immunity?

I posted the link. And there was never a gag order between TB and KR. It's in my post that I responded to you post with. Right now there is only a gag order on the attorneys.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Neither a shoddy police investigation or a substandard audit report exonerate Read. All they do is muddy the water.

Either you believe Read hit JOK and killed him or you believe in a substantial, collusive coverup where quite a few folks were willing to perjure themselves to protect an individual.

Occam's Razor ...

It's not that black or white IMO.

 

[Forest_Wood]

This trial is not about how bad the cops are in Boston.
The entire population can hold a torch and pitchfork parade against the police once this trial is over if they want.

Would you trust the LE in this area right now if something like this happened to you or a family member? I sure wouldn't be able to trust that they would investigate fairly after everything revealed here. So yes, in my opinion, it is about the cops as much as KR. They failed in their duty and several LE were reprimanded, disciplined and fired for that very reason.
MOO

 

[Forest_Wood]

Read now says JOK went into the house. No one in the house testified to that and Julie Nagel testified they were all in the kitchen and dining room area including BA and BH.

BA testified that he left the kitchen/DR area to go upstairs to get the dog and take Chloe outside, holding her tightly since she got anxious around people. Higgins was leaving about the same time that John was arriving, according to testimony during the trial. Julie Nagel was very drunk according to her own testimony. Who to believe!

 

[Forest_Wood]

Brian Higgins' behavior in particular was so odd, both on that night and in the subsequent days, that I think it bears singling out:

• We know that in the weeks prior to John's death, he and Karen had exchanged a series of messages and had kissed once. He admitted on the stand that he was romantically interested in her.
• The evening of John’s death, while everyone was at the Waterfall bar, Higgins texted Karen “Um, well..." which she ignored. We know how affectionate JO and KR were that night and I think he was becoming jealous watching them.
• After Higgins leaves the bar he goes to the Albert home and at 12:20 AM he texts John O’Keefe, “Where you at?”
• He says he left almost immediately afterwards because there was no Jameson whiskey there. Note that John was supposedly struck at 12:25 AM, right around the time Higgins, by his own testimony, would be leaving the house.
• We now know that he is on videotape arriving at the Canton PD at 1:26 AM. It’s only a five minute drive. Where was he for that missing hour? He claimed the roads were bad, but everyone else was driving around at more or less normal speeds and he was driving a Jeep.
• On the stand he claimed that he went to the PD only to move some cars around, but he is on videotape talking to someone on his phone. We don’t know who he was speaking with at that time of night. (Notably this didn’t come out in the original trial. The footage was originally withheld from the defense and they only found out about it recently. Apparently, Higgins didn’t mention this call in either his state or federal testimony.)
• At 2:22 AM when he’s at home, he and Brian Albert exchange phone calls. They later deny making the calls and claim they are “butt dials”.
• At 6:30 AM the next morning, Brian Albert calls him to tell him about JO and Higgins immediately shows up at the scene. This is shortly after JO is found in the snow. Brian Albert wouldn’t come out onto his lawn, but he called Higgins? Why?
• According to access logs, Higgins then goes to Canton PD and is there from 7 AM to 5 PM. (Remember, this is a Saturday. Higgins has the day off.)
• The logs also show that he enters the sally port that day, although Higgins says he doesn’t “recollect” if he was there at the same time as Karen’s SUV. The video from that time period is missing.
• Nine months later, Higgins drove to a military base to destroy his phone and its SIM card. He claimed he did it there because it was on his way, but that really makes no sense.

Keep in mind, this man is an ATF agent, who has an ethical duty to avoid even the appearance of impropriety, yet destroyed his phone in the most suspicious way possible so that it could never be examined. There’s also a lot I’ve left out, like the roughhousing at the Waterfall; the mysterious Jeep and its plow; his claim that he wasn’t at the PD on Saturday, but can’t remember where he was; and much more.

Excellent summary. Thank you.

 

[Seattle1]

4/1/25

Jury selection underway in Karen Read's retrial​

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

KR admitted it and then lied about ever being there and considering her demeanor afterwards...my money is on she did it in a drunken rage, spur of the moment. Then unfortunately she went home and slept while her boyfriend laid outside dying. She waited too long to go back. A snow plow may have even been by during that time and contributed to the events unwittingly...but KR knew she hit him. AJMO

It would be interesting to know or understand though how in a drunken rage KR was able to both maneuver the curve of the particular section of road while driving in reverse and accelerate fast enough to 24 mph in such little time and space that she was able to tragically fatally strike JOK with her car but had enough precision to avoid scraping against or crashing into the flag pole or fire hydrant or causing even more horrific harm by crushing JOK under the weight of her vehicles or tires? How did she avoid detection from JMc and MMc who were watching her drive off? Isn’t it possible the sound of car then driving off a curb and the weird way she seemingly took off would have alerted one of them? What about the dog, isn’t it possible the sounds on the property would have startled her and caused her to react in alarm thereby bringing attention to what happened right outside? It seems interesting that KR could drive with so much stealth in that moment of rage and intoxication but only a few hours later reverses straight into JOK’s parked car while simply pulling out the garage.

If she intentionally hit him or knew what she had done what would be the point of calling him? A strike like that at the speed would be devastating. She as the driver would have possibly both heard and felt it. Would she really expect him to pick up or listen to her voicemail? According to the ME due to his head trauma he immediately lost consciousness and sadly would not recover enough at any point afterwards to get back up. Not only in this scenario did KR violently assault and harm JOK, she also committed a horrific crime. Against an officer. On the property of a retired one. And in the vicinity of a ATF official. If she wherewithal to think to go back at some point wouldn’t she also to reasonably deduce that she would be in serious trouble no matter what? Why implicate herself further by leaving numerous angry voicemails? Why go back to his house or stay there for that matter? If she was trying to cover her tracks why raise the alarm about JOK not being home at all? She didn’t know that witnesses saw her drive off. If she didn’t say anything she could have just left it up to chance that someone else would eventually find him and wait until she got that phone call so that play it off that she had no idea what happened, thought he spent the night and then to work and pray that people deduce he got hit by a snow plow or another car without suspecting she was involved. Or at least use the time not alerting everyone that something possibly happen to JOK to find a lawyer and get her ducks in order.

Is it possible that she didn’t intentionally lie about last seeing JOK at the bar but forgot about going to house afterwards because she was incredibly drunk and sometimes memories take more time to recover, particularly when one’s body is not yet fully sober? Perhaps she recalled their time at the bar better because all the alcohol she consumed hadn’t taken full affect yet? If I remember correctly it was JMc who had to remind her that she had driven over to sister’s and brother in-laws house after leaving the bar.

JMOT/JMO

IIRC, a snow plower did testify that he worked on clearing the street around 2:15 AM and due to the vehicle’s bright lights and his habits of diligently checking his surroundings for hazards or pedestrians, he could say with certainty that there was no body, including JOK’s, lying on the lawn close to the road as he worked passed the aforementioned area. He was confident that if there was someone lying there, even while unconscious and lightly covered in snow, he would have seen them.

 

[mrjitty]

^^rsbm

Wait, didn't the defense successfully frustrate the CW here given the grand jury investigated and failed to indict KR for witness intimidation? The CW tried so hard here with the grand jury that they even kept this GJ investigation from KR and her defense!

Having listened to the complicated 4 way pleadings in front of the other Judge in the Turtleboy case, I am fairly sure there are active matters in relation to TB, with a special prosecutor leading. I am not sure of the history re the failed indictment.

In other words, I thought the judge settled this by limiting the scope to seeking evidence of KR's consciousness of guilt during the period cited by OP. JMO

Yes. HB sought to get access to the communications between TB and the defendant. The prosecutor produced comms that included messages between TB and Read's attorneys. The Judge would not allow the later category to be produced as it was outside the scope of his order. The Judge also made a 'belt and braces' order to prevent the TB prosecutor from leaking the content to 3rd parties.

There is a lot of innuendo here, but the D seemed to suggest that the TB prosecutor is leaking to 3rd parties so HB can end run the chinese wall. Then HB sought legal access so he can use it in court. We are yet to discover what messages will actually now be produced, and beyond that, whether HB could introduce them into the trial.

I note once again, this sideshow illustrates the dangers of discussing the case "off the record' with a cutout who is really part of Team D, but not enjoying the same protections.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

Doesn't the gag order prevent discovery from being leaked so as not to try the case in the media but wait until the trial? You're saying that's only for the lawyers, not the client, they can leak anything they want, to whomever they want, with immunity?

I don't think the gag order existed at the time.

 

[mrjitty]

I’m pretty sure KR would be under that gag order, so passing information along to that beacon of justice Turtleboy, would be a violation by her.

TB pretends not to be part of Team D.

This whole thing is a grey area which I think BTL, has annoyed the Court a great deal. As we've discussed in other cases now, in the US, the defendant generally has broad scope to publicise the case, and spread theories - even theories that might be harmful to the course of Justice.

I hope the protestors are kept well away from the jury.

IMO

 

[Seattle1]

Having listened to the complicated 4 way pleadings in front of the other Judge in the Turtleboy case, I am fairly sure there are active matters in relation to TB, with a special prosecutor leading. I am not sure of the history re the failed indictment.



Yes. HB sought to get access to the communications between TB and the defendant. The prosecutor produced comms that included messages between TB and Read's attorneys. The Judge would not allow the later category to be produced as it was outside the scope of his order. The Judge also made a 'belt and braces' order to prevent the TB prosecutor from leaking the content to 3rd parties.

There is a lot of innuendo here, but the D seemed to suggest that the TB prosecutor is leaking to 3rd parties so HB can end run the chinese wall. Then HB sought legal access so he can use it in court. We are yet to discover what messages will actually now be produced, and beyond that, whether HB could introduce them into the trial.

I note once again, this sideshow illustrates the dangers of discussing the case "off the record' with a cutout who is really part of Team D, but not enjoying the same protections.

MOO

Thank you for this @mrjitty! This falls in line with what I thought I heard by the Judge because I know I can't trust one more 'misrepresentation' of the facts by HB (who also must have a close and dear cousin practicing law in the Rocky Mountains)! JMO

 

[mrjitty]

Brian Higgins' behavior in particular was so odd, both on that night and in the subsequent days, that I think it bears singling out:

• We know that in the weeks prior to John's death, he and Karen had exchanged a series of messages and had kissed once. He admitted on the stand that he was romantically interested in her.
• The evening of John’s death, while everyone was at the Waterfall bar, Higgins texted Karen “Um, well..." which she ignored. We know how affectionate JO and KR were that night and I think he was becoming jealous watching them.
• After Higgins leaves the bar he goes to the Albert home and at 12:20 AM he texts John O’Keefe, “Where you at?”
• He says he left almost immediately afterwards because there was no Jameson whiskey there. Note that John was supposedly struck at 12:25 AM, right around the time Higgins, by his own testimony, would be leaving the house.
• We now know that he is on videotape arriving at the Canton PD at 1:26 AM. It’s only a five minute drive. Where was he for that missing hour? He claimed the roads were bad, but everyone else was driving around at more or less normal speeds and he was driving a Jeep.
• On the stand he claimed that he went to the PD only to move some cars around, but he is on videotape talking to someone on his phone. We don’t know who he was speaking with at that time of night. (Notably this didn’t come out in the original trial. The footage was originally withheld from the defense and they only found out about it recently. Apparently, Higgins didn’t mention this call in either his state or federal testimony.)
• At 2:22 AM when he’s at home, he and Brian Albert exchange phone calls. They later deny making the calls and claim they are “butt dials”.
• At 6:30 AM the next morning, Brian Albert calls him to tell him about JO and Higgins immediately shows up at the scene. This is shortly after JO is found in the snow. Brian Albert wouldn’t come out onto his lawn, but he called Higgins? Why?
• According to access logs, Higgins then goes to Canton PD and is there from 7 AM to 5 PM. (Remember, this is a Saturday. Higgins has the day off.)
• The logs also show that he enters the sally port that day, although Higgins says he doesn’t “recollect” if he was there at the same time as Karen’s SUV. The video from that time period is missing.
• Nine months later, Higgins drove to a military base to destroy his phone and its SIM card. He claimed he did it there because it was on his way, but that really makes no sense.

Keep in mind, this man is an ATF agent, who has an ethical duty to avoid even the appearance of impropriety, yet destroyed his phone in the most suspicious way possible so that it could never be examined. There’s also a lot I’ve left out, like the roughhousing at the Waterfall; the mysterious Jeep and its plow; his claim that he wasn’t at the PD on Saturday, but can’t remember where he was; and much more.

About the phone, my understanding is Higgins disposed of it only after the court ruled in his favour over the protective order. There may of course be many other reasons why he did not want investigators or the D to get hold of it.

Anyway - i only note this because the idea he destroyed evidence is a bit overstated IMO.

 

[mrjitty]

Thank you for this @mrjitty! This falls in line with what I thought I heard by the Judge because I know I can't trust one more 'misrepresentation' of the facts by HB (who also must have a close and dear cousin practicing law in the Rocky Mountains)! JMO

I am cynical about this proceeding. IMO the TB prosecutor very well knows that HB can make hay out of those comms between attorneys Read and TB. Which is why he produced them outside of scope. The Judge slapped this down.

Like you say, HBs explanation for this 'mixup' was not credible.

Of course this is the second big case where we've seen the prosecution gain access to the D's strategy via such a back door.

I really think D teams need to rethink how smart it is to build such a back door and hope the prosecution does not walk through it.

 

[Seattle1]

4/1/25

Karen Read Jury Selection Day 1 - Does Everyone Know About This Case?​

 

[Seattle1]

4/1/25

Given Read is facing a life sentence in prison, she’s entitled to 16 peremptory challenges — one each for the 12 jurors and four alternates.

Jury selection for Karen Read's retrial began Tuesday. It could take a while, legal experts say.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

Neither a shoddy police investigation or a substandard audit report exonerate Read. All they do is muddy the water.

Either you believe Read hit JOK and killed him or you believe in a substantial, collusive coverup where quite a few folks were willing to perjure themselves to protect an individual.

Occam's Razor ...

This is a false dichotomy.
You could also simply believe there is not evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to convict.

 

[mrjitty]

This is a false dichotomy.
You could also simply believe there is not evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to convict.

That is where I sit going in to trial.

Having rewatched Proctor's evidence I lean towards the idea he did a shabby investigation precisely because he assumed the defendant was guilty and he and his colleagues made so many missteps because that was just a normal day at the office for them.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

That is where I sit going in to trial.

Having rewatched Proctor's evidence I lean towards the idea he did a shabby investigation precisely because he assumed the defendant was guilty and he and his colleagues made so many missteps because that was just a normal day at the office for them.

I’m in the same camp.
Do I believe there was some very strange activity at 34 Fairview in the hours surrounding JOK’s death? Definitely. Does that need to be proven by KR’s defense to exonerate her? Not at all.

The only thing that truly matters in court is that the investigation into JOK’s death was substandard and very likely biased. If law enforcement failed to properly investigate all scenarios, then the case against KR is based on a foundation of sand.