VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #35 Retrial

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Trebor5591 said:
I don't think it looks good at all that she did not testify in her own defense if she is not guilty. I realize the jury will be instructed otherwise, but in truth, how can they not care?
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And she sure had a LOT to say on Television. I will have to unplug from the internet and my television if she's found not guilty. She'll be plastered on every show that airs and every podcast with a hot mic. <eyes rolling> Then comes the book. Hell, she'll be a consultant on every case AJ has in the future. She'll be working in his office, a la Casey Anthony style.
 
less0305 said:
And she sure had a LOT to say on Television. I will have to unplug from the internet and my television if she's found not guilty. She'll be plastered on every show that airs and every podcast with a hot mic. <eyes rolling> Then comes the book. Hell, she'll be a consultant on every case AJ has in the future. She'll be working in his office, a la Casey Anthony style.
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Really no similarity between people like Casey Anthony/JodiArias and Karen. Karen is/was a very successful and educated person and tried her best to help John and his niece and nephew. But, seems the ladies of Canton thought Karen should not be spoiling these poor orphans. Looks like ladies of Canton were jealous of Karen.
 
less0305 said:
And she sure had a LOT to say on Television. I will have to unplug from the internet and my television if she's found not guilty. She'll be plastered on every show that airs and every podcast with a hot mic. <eyes rolling> Then comes the book. Hell, she'll be a consultant on every case AJ has in the future. She'll be working in his office, a la Casey Anthony style.
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Nah..it is not that..
 
Trebor5591 said:
I don't think it looks good at all that she did not testify in her own defense if she is not guilty. I realize the jury will be instructed otherwise, but in truth, how can they not care?
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The only time you see someone testify at their own trial is if they know they’re losing, or if they have a huge ego and think they know better than their lawyer.
 
Spider92 said:
I’m really worried about Peg O’Keefe. She looked very fragile today and spent half the time staring at the floor. I’m afraid she’s going to have a medical event when the verdict is read. I don’t envy Paul who’s going to have to keep her in one piece.
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MMMM. She may be starting to see sense in the no collision. Not sure, both are thick with the party people esp JMc, who made sure immediately, keep them close and all. It's Mr. O'Keefe who is ill or has medical issues and he was close with KR and had said early on he did not believe that of her. It's just a basic terrible loss of his son and needs to put closure of truth on this for his son. IMO
 
Forest_Wood said:
That part didn't make a lot of sense to me and was a bit contradictory to me unless I'm not understanding the implication.
I get it that AJ was trying to get across that the diffusers were broken by Proctor. But the thing is, if the diffusers were working before Proctor took possession of the SUV, that means that they wouldn't have broken anyway if a a collision had taken place. The testing to prove no broken diffusers therefore becomes irrelevant wouldn't it?
MOO
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Here is my take:
There is plenty of other scientific evidence that JOK was never hit by a car and that damage to the car (aka taillight) was inconsistent with pedestrian collision/JOKs injuries etc..etc..
So the diffuser being broken primarily demonstrates that Proctor fabricated the taillight evidence.
AJ is pointing out - the diffusers (and majority of the taillight) were intact when Proctor got ahold of the car.
Proctor, being the dolt that he is, hulk smashed the whole taillight (including the diffusers) to make it look like there was a collision.
But per science/physics/accident reconstruction it would not be possible for a collision with JOK to cause that diffuser damage.
So the damage done by Proctor actually makes it even more obvious that the taillight wasn’t smashed in a collision.
Jmo
 
ADMIN NOTE:

Almost 100, 5 entire pages of posts ended up having to be removed.

This is a trial discussion and we aren't here to reinvent the wheel by speculating and joking about and piling it on regarding things that aren't remotely in evidence at this trial or supported by any known fact.
 
keek said:
MMMM. She may be starting to see sense in the no collision. Not sure, both are thick with the party people esp JMc, who made sure immediately, keep them close and all. It's Mr. O'Keefe who is ill or has medical issues and he was close with KR and had said early on he did not believe that of her. It's just a basic terrible loss of his son and needs to put closure of truth on this for his son. IMO
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Mr OK came across as very sincere and non-judgmental. I feel badly for him. He and Karen seemed to like and respect each other IMO. I do wonder what they are all thinking now that they've heard from all these experts who have said the car never hit John. How will the truth ever be known at this point.
MOO
 
less0305 said:
I understand I am in the minority here. I'm sure you will all get your wish of a not guilty verdict. And if that's the case, then I'll settle for the fact that KR at least has had to sit in a courtroom and go through the process. And perhaps the next guy she sets her sights on will have seen or read <modsnip> and steer clear of her.
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JOK wasn’t her first relationship. We never heard testimony or even any other media from any exes. Wouldn’t we have heard if she was problematic in her relationships?
 
Forest_Wood said:
Mr OK came across as very sincere and non-judgmental. I feel badly for him. He and Karen seemed to like and respect each other IMO. I do wonder what they are all thinking now that they've heard from all these experts who have said the car never hit John. How will the truth ever be known at this point.
MOO
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At some point I wonder if Peggy will ask herself why JM kept her so close. I'm actually surprised it didn't happen in season 1 since those text messages among the Alberts and McCabes were public knowledge. Not once in that group chat did anyone say anything about John's death except "tell them the guy never came in the house". This time around we added more reasonable doubt with Kerry admitting she never heard Karen say "I hit him x 3" and that Jen told her Karen said that. We also know Jen called her sister about an hour before she, Kerry and Karen arrived at 34 Fairview.
 
<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

I listened to both trials. I have a strong opinion, and if I were sitting on the jury, I'd vote guilty of at least leaving the scene of an accident that caused a death. I believe the evidence of the "black box" from the SUV. I believe the health data from John's phone. I believe the temperature of the cell phone. I believe the defendant when she stated in interviews that she drank maybe 5 drinks, that she possibly clipped him, that she may have hit him. I believe the last steps JOK made were the few steps he took after getting out of the SUV. I did not see evidence that he walked to the house, entered the house, took a glass from inside the house, got into a life-ending fight inside the house. I believe her when she said in voice mails that she "F*ing hated" him. I believe the witnesses who testified that said KR said "John's dead" before going to look for him. I believe the witnesses who testified that she said "I hit him, I hit him, I hit him. I found them credible. I believe the defense did everything every high-paid defense team is paid to do if the client is guilty, try to confuse the jury - bamboozle them with b***s***. Do I believe in some grand conspiracy that a houseful of people, firefighters, EMS personnel are all in on a cover-up? No. Do I believe there was an officer who said some really crappy things in texts about KR? Yes. Do I believe she intentionally hit JOK with her car to attempt to and succeed in killing JOK? No. But I believe she was culpable in his death. And now that the second trial has concluded, I can say that's my opinion. Not that my opinion means a hill of beans to anyone but me.
 
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I initially thought the CW was right in bringing the charges they did.

I watched all of season 1 and season 2, and tonight I watched the closing arguments with my spouse (a senior prosecutor). After all of the evidence and the arguments, I still don't know what happened to JOK. I don't.

KR may have driven recklessly in reverse and caused JOK to (startled) move away, fall and fracture his skull. But before he perished, he was then attacked by a dog? It seems so confusing. Was there - in addition - subsequent interference by MP in the death investigation to purportedly cement causation?

Tonight, I accept there is no medical evidence (or physics) to confirm a collision with the vehicle - at least none of the logical indicators you would expect to see are present. As an accident litigation lawyer, I just can't see how proof of JOK being hit was established I need more.

My spouse echoed my thoughts: AJ was phenomenal in his closing. Brennan, who raised good points, was not as strong. I am thinking hung jury or not guilty and that result, I put entirely on MP and the investigators (with just a bit on Brennan). Doors needed to be closed and better facts not only found but led in this trial.

Disappointed because we will never have the "moral certainty" that AJ referenced.
 
less0305 said:
And she sure had a LOT to say on Television. I will have to unplug from the internet and my television if she's found not guilty. She'll be plastered on every show that airs and every podcast with a hot mic. <eyes rolling> Then comes the book. Hell, she'll be a consultant on every case AJ has in the future. She'll be working in his office, a la Casey Anthony style.
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Well, you'll still have to unplug if she's found guilty since she's not going anywhere now! The genie has been let out of the bottle. Karen Read has become a Cause Célèbre or Champion of all that is perceived to be wrong with law enforcement and injustice.
MOO
 
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Trebor5591 said:
I don't think it looks good at all that she did not testify in her own defense if she is not guilty. I realize the jury will be instructed otherwise, but in truth, how can they not care?
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It’s up to the prosecution to prove their case, it is not up to the defendant to prove herself not guilty, that’s up to her legal team (and IMO her legal team have proved that very well)

IMO the evidence is quite clear that there is no factual evidence of her hitting him, and plenty of factual evidence to show she did not hit him. If you look at many cases on this forum you will see repeatedly that it’s quite common for defendants not to take the stand.

I’ll also point out that if she did say “I hit him” the context and tone need to be considered - IMO shes questioning herself to try make sense of why he was on the lawn. When you consider the trauma of losing her partner in an unknown way, it’s quite natural to question oneself.

the vitriol of some towards KR is reminiscent of that to Megan Markle, Taylor Swift and others - I wonder if those people self reflect at all.
 
less0305 said:
And she sure had a LOT to say on Television. I will have to unplug from the internet and my television if she's found not guilty. She'll be plastered on every show that airs and every podcast with a hot mic. <eyes rolling> Then comes the book. Hell, she'll be a consultant on every case AJ has in the future. She'll be working in his office, a la Casey Anthony style.
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Yes, someone with a master's degree will do what someone with no job or a high school diploma did. What kind of thinking is that?
 
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