VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #35 Retrial

[mzmarymac]

To me, that seems more likely than a fist fight. If there really was a fight, I think JOK’s face and/or knuckles, would show more than a small cut near his eye.

I don't think there was much of a fight. I think whatever happened, happened very quickly.

 

[keek]

I don't think there was much of a fight. I think whatever happened, happened very quickly.

JOK was caught unaware, the other three were not. IMO

 

[mzmarymac]

All these middle aged women vying to be JOK's best friend! LOL.

Kerry with whom he attended HS prom. JenMc the "soccer mom" who flirted with him any chance she got. The GF from years ago attending court daily. The single mom neighbor he dated. Other women living around Fairview according to Karen. And of course Karen who was practically his live-in GF who he used as his baby-sitter and designated driver so he could get drunk constantly such as in Aruba and in Canton, Mass. What was the allure I wonder?

Have you had a good look at any of the other options in Canton?

 

[themonk]

And her nose!

teeth

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I will say if KR verdict is NG of all charges or even not Brian Higgins should get far away from that state. AFter listening to AJ closing it is clear they put the blame on him. I think a drunken argument that got out of control and some quick coverup. The defense did not have to provide that scenario but it is plausible. I would not want to be anywhere near that guy.

I really hope the Feds swoop in after this is done and arrest a number of people.

 

[keek]

JOK was caught unaware, the other three were not. IMO

Including the dog.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I think they wanted to put the blame on the underage nephew of Brian Albert but no one was allowed to say his name. So they used Higgins instead. They had the jealousy angle.
I don’t see Jen McCabe rallying to protect Higgins.
I do see Higgins and the others - mostly all his relatives - involved to protect the kid who is now in or was in college.
JMO

The only thing that makes me think they are protecting Higgins is they never expected Karen to fight back. They assumed she would get arrested, plead to a lesser charge and it would all be over.

 

[Spider92]

Those would be civil penalties only. Civil damages covered by homeowners' insurance. Not criminal (assuming they didn't command Chloe to kill John, of course).

Would an even remotely sane person risk prison to avoid an increase in their insurance premiums?

No, but an insanely drunk person might.
Also I don’t think a typical HO policy would cover a claim that large - if a man in his prime, raising 2 kids that he adopted, is killed by a dog with a history of violence, that could be a pretty big lawsuit.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

Does anyone agree with me that in actuality, Chloe could have just attacked JOK and he fell backwards and hit his head on a hard floor, possibly in the garage or basement?

Except for the gash over his right eye. That is what makes me think he was punched in the face and fell backward, hitting his head on a cement step as Chloe attacked him. She was pulled off and they let him die, then moved him outside.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Does anyone agree with me that in actuality, Chloe could have just attacked JOK and he fell backwards and hit his head on a hard floor, possibly in the garage or basement?

Yes, I could see how something like that could have happened. Maybe John went into the garage and Chloe was being kept out there after she was let outside. BA said he stood in his kitchen and watched her outside and took her back upstairs right away, (who does that at your own house when you have a fenced yard!). I could see him putting her in the garage while all those guests were partying inside the house. If John opened the garage door and Chloe attacked, he fell back, hit his head on a ridged and raised surface, and someone found him later when they went to bring Chloe back inside after everyone was leaving. And the plan was then put into place ... what do we do with this body?
MOO

 

[mzmarymac]

Let's discuss the effects of alcohol for a moment. My husband is a functional alcoholic. Sad to say, but it is what it is and it won't change, as he's 63 years old. I have also been known to abuse alcohol as well, but am not a hugely frequent drinker. (Not bradding realy...lol) Happily, we are well past the years of making the kinds of dumbass decisions that so many of these folks did that night/morning, but I do have a bit of insight into the effects of alcohol on memory and rationality.

When I was a teenager, I drove home drunk from a party. I woke up the next morning in bed and when I got up, my parents told me a couple had found me asleep in my car with the engine running in a bank parking lot. They got me home and even drove my car home for me, walked me up to the door and I was put in bed. I apparently was talking and thanked them and everything. I remembered NOTHING!! (Never did that again!) But as the morning went on and I started to "come to" I did have some flashback type memories pop in and out. I never remember everything, but I was able to put together bits and pieces.

Drunk people make dumb decisions. They say and do stupid things. Look at drunk drivers being pulled over by police. They often make things worse by acting crazy and getting physical with police. Same goes for arguments fueled by alcohol. I have seen my husband and his brothers go to blows after a night of drinking and fun. We even had a couple of fights after our wedding. (Hey-we're Irish ok?)

Anyway, my point is that you cannot apply rational theories to the behaviors of irrational drunk people. Karen, John, all the McAlberts & Higgins - all LOADED! Nobody was thinking clearly that night.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Yes, I could see how something like that could have happened. Maybe John went into the garage and Chloe was being kept out there after she was let outside. BA said he stood and watched her outside and took her back upstairs right away, (who does that at your own house when you have a fenced yard!). I could see him putting her in the garage while all those guests were partying inside the house. If John opened the garage door and Chloe attacked, he fell back, hit his head on a ridged and raised surface, and someone found him later when they went to bring Chloe back inside after everyone was leaving. And the plan was then put into place ... what do we do with this body?
MOO

But why on earth would anyone dump the body of a person that was accidentally hurt by a dog? That's not a crime. But leaving a dead/dying body on the lawn will send you to prison for a long time.

Makes no sense to me that anyone would even consider that.

 

[AngTxGal]

Easy. It's called the Blue Wall. And you did post that blankets were from Albert's house. Which is FALSE.

Wiki:
The blue wall of silence, also blue code and blue shield, are terms used to denote an informal code of silence among police officers in the United States not to report on a colleague's errors, misconduct, or crimes, especially as related to police brutality in the United States. If questioned about an incident of alleged misconduct involving another officer, while following the code, the officer being questioned would perjure themselves by feigning ignorance of another officer's wrongdoing.

Yeah, I looked back and realized I had put house when it I was thinking car. My mistake

The Blue Wall
I’m familiar with the blue wall, my sister is married to a cop as is a close friend. And it depends on the size of the force and if they rose up in the same force or moved from one force to another.
It is much like the military- you would expect that level of closeness- their very lives depend on each other being trust worthy. I have no doubt they would cover for each other.

Does this mean JOK went into that home, was killed in there, or injured and near death, and then moved to the lawn of a Retired Cop to die?
No, it doesn’t. JOK was a cop too. So that Blue Wall and Fraternity of men didn’t include him in death but includes his family now? That doesn't’ make sense- his brother is also a cop.

Either cops care for each other, or they don’t.
Why was JOK excluded and then included? If he was injured in the house- why not render aid, get him help, call 911? It doesnt’ make sense

IMO

 

[mzmarymac]

Yeah, I looked back and realized I had put house when it I was thinking car. My mistake

The Blue Wall
I’m familiar with the blue wall, my sister is married to a cop as is a close friend. And it depends on the size of the force and if they rose up in the same force or moved from one force to another.
It is much like the military- you would expect that level of closeness- their very lives depend on each other being trust worthy. I have no doubt they would cover for each other.

Does this mean JOK went into that home, was killed in their, or injured and near death, and then moved to the lawn to die?
No, it doesn’t. JOK was a cop too. So that Blue Wall and Fraternity of men didn’t include him in death but includes his family now? That doesn't’ make sense- his brother is also a cop.

Either cops care for each other, or they don’t.
Why was JOK excluded and then included? If he was injured in the house- why not render aid, get him help, call 911? It doesnt’ make sense

IMO

I'm not sure about the Blue Wall theory. What I do think, however, is that cops tend to side with cops. Family tends to side with family. So while not colluding or conspiring, they just have the default of believing family and law enforcement and would take a great deal to change their minds.

 

[mzmarymac]

But why on earth would anyone dump the body of a person that was accidentally hurt by a dog? That's not a crime. But leaving a dead/dying body on the lawn will send you to prison for a long time.

Makes no sense to me that anyone would even consider that.

Please refer to my post about about alcohol.

 

[AngTxGal]

Yes. Except I think his head injury could have made him puke and that is maybe when he got tossed in the yard.
I have seen a party host do this in person.
Then he died. I think they might have thought he would be alright and just call someone.
Not married to the theory .

Sure, push them off of your carpet if they are vomiting drunk. I buy that if it isn’t cold outside.
But-
He didn't’ seem vomiting drunk on the footage at the Waterfall.
I don’t know about his drinking history did he typically get falling down vomiting drunk?
If JOK did tend to get that drunk- why on earth did the family think he should get custody of his sister’s two kids?

I can’t speak to what people do in colder climates with vomiting drunks- do they move them outside at night?
Probably not?

IMO

 

[HarmonyE.]

Please refer to my post about about alcohol.

I don't care how drunk someone is. If your dog accidentally hurts someone, you don't then turn it into a murder because you've been drinking. Do you know of any other cases where this scenario has happened? (and the Alberts ended up getting rid of Chloe anyway so it wasn't for love of the dog or fear she'd be put down for killing someone)

These people know well the difference between civil and criminal penalties. Drunkeness wouldn't have resulted in them losing that understanding.

 

[AngTxGal]

I'm not sure about the Blue Wall theory. What I do think, however, is that cops tend to side with cops. Family tends to side with family. So while not colluding or conspiring, they just have the default of believing family and law enforcement and would take a great deal to change their minds.

I buy that and I suppose it is possible one favor led to another and they convered up something that was an accident

I still think it is possible they argued, and who knows BH could have come up, and KR could have bumped him with her car, and he could have thrown the glass and hit her taillight.
She may have not realized he fell down and hit his head, she thought he was ok and went into the house, then she panicked when she realized he didn’t come home? Maybe drove to find him the next morning, saw the lump in the snow, and went back to find help.
To me this is as plausible as several other scenarios that have been tossed out

And the cops created evidence to make a case stick, when it may have begun as an accident.

IMO

 

[AngTxGal]

They jury doesn't have to believe ALL of those scenarios. They can just pick one to realize there is reasonable doubt and not enough evidence to convict her. It was proven that JOK was not hit by KR's vehicle. And that is what the CW has based their case entirely on. All the rest is drama that people want to focus on.
MOO

Agree, but there will be more to come even if she is found Not Guilty, especially if she is found guilty of DUI.
She will have avoided the worst of it, but it won’t be over.
I expect the O’Keefe family will file a wrongful death suit and all of her actions that night, the morning of, the voicemails, the evidence from this trial, maybe even texts with BH, and her interviews will not serve her well.
The drama will continue

IMO

 

[AngTxGal]

Those would be civil penalties only. Civil damages covered by homeowners' insurance. Not criminal (assuming they didn't command Chloe to kill John, of course).

Would an even remotely sane person risk prison to avoid an increase in their insurance premiums?

I’m with you, I can’t wrap my head around what is about 20 people jumping in to act like five frat boys act when someone wrecks a car after a drunken party.
This is a dead person some are saying was dragged into the front yard of a cop?!

If it was a scuffle that resulted in harm- I can’t see them thinking a dead guy in the yard is a solid fix for the situation.
It just doesnt’ make sense, and would speak to them being terrible cops. Surely if they are going to drag him to the yard why not move the body somewhere else like a neighbors yard or down the street.
Then say he was angry and decided to walk home, and left the house and must have been hit by a snow plow. Or that he never came inside and they saw the car in front of the neighbor’s home.

I’m not a cop and I can think of a story that would work better, it didnt’ have to be linked to the Albert’s house or yard or KR at all- So… Why was it?

IMO