VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #36 Retrial

[turaj]

I've come to accept that no matter how a defendant acts in court, people will find a reason to criticize them. There's literally no manner a defendant can conduct themselves that will satisfy people.

Remain blank faced? They're a remorseless monster. Uncontrollable sobbing? Crocodile tears. Heartfelt apology? Never good enough. Smiling? Callous.

Darned if they do, darned if they don't. IMO

one thing that jurors will notice about KR that is so different from many defendants is her involvement. NON stop engagement in every move of the case with her attorneys. I have no doubt she will get into the legal field after all of her court cases. Not sure what happens to the civil case if this is acquittal?

 

[jepop]

RSBM

The ME does not know how the vehicle impacted John, so how can she make any determination? She's not an accident reconstructionist, and the only information she has is broken taillight plastic, not crushed-in car bodywork. She doesn't know that his arm measures up exactly to the taillight because she didn't inspect the car or do those measurements. She doesn't know his eyelid is the same height as the wing. She doesn't know if he could be hit at such an angle in a split second that he could be spun away from the car, causing no lower body injuries.

She couldn't determine how his arm injuries occurred because she's not a biomechanic to determine speeds, forces and properties of materials, and even if she'd said it could be consistent with a car side-swipe, she wouldn't be able to determine whether that was accident or homicide - that is for a jury to decide if no one is forthcoming about knowing he was there, or deliberately or recklessly driving at speed in reverse towards him in the dark. An example of accidental collision could be driving carefully but braking sharply and skidding on ice.

This is the way I see it. If my elbow is hit by a lump of metal traveling at say 20 mph, I would certainly expect bruising and bone fracture. If my elbow is hit by a sheet of frigid plastic, which is travelling at the same speed, and my elbow shatters that plastic for a split-second, I might not expect a bruise or fractured bone, but I would expect skin damage. Because it's broken through the plastic which immediately reduces the force/impact on my bone. IMO bone is stronger than frigid plastic, but it's not stronger than a lump of metal, and it's not going to break the metal.

ARCCA didn't prove that his arm bones would break by breaking through plastic, or bruise him, so they can't give that opinion IMO. They weren't interested, but it's their claim to prove, if that's what they contend. They used a dummy arm to show taillight damage, not arm damage. An arm which is not human bone and flesh, an arm which wouldn't react and bend like a human arm with muscles and ligaments attached to a body which pulls the arm away as the body is spun away and transfers the force to the body, IMO. The commonwealth doesn't have to prove his arm wouldn't break, they can and did certainly show statistics and car accident victims whose bones didn't break, but those circumstances also aren't identical to this collision, and there are unknown variables that cannot be demonstrated without hundreds of human volunteers in hundreds of different positions at hundreds of different speeds and temperatures. There was a man, a sole survivor, who just walked away from a plane crash in the news.

It's the totality of the evidence that the commonwealth has, the car, the scene, the body, the clothing, the DNA, the phone, the defendant, the weather, which proves the collision and the cause of John's injuries and death. Not the ME.

MOO

Sorry, but I don't understand your response and it's relevance to my post. Why are you assuming the ME assumed there was a vehicle impact? Proctor tried to influence her but she did not budge. The case against KR should never have come to trial. I thought my point was pretty clear, there's plenty to demonstrate the investigation from the get go was flawed, avenues were ignored, the ME was not informed about Chloe and here we are. In a parallel universe any PA interested in justice could have done something down the line of course and not just accepted the flawed and tunneled investigation.
I already gather from your posts you believe everything is fine and that KR is justly charged, so I'm glad to agree to disagree. Moo

 

[kuromiiiilove]

one thing that jurors will notice about KR that is so different from many defendants is her involvement. NON stop engagement in every move of the case with her attorneys. I have no doubt she will get into the legal field after all of her court cases. Not sure what happens to the civil case if this is acquittal?

Civil suit could still move forward. Karen’s defense can cite the acquittal in the criminal case in the civil suit; however, standards of proof are different in civil vs criminal court. It is possible for her to be acquitted on all charges and then lose the civil case. Not that she has much left to take, anyway…

 

[pcrum12]

Hos long to Verdict!!!!!!

 

[Forest_Wood]

I would be doing the same thing to people/fans who believe in me and love me. It must feel really good to know that so many people have her back. Imo

No matter what the verdict ends up being, Karen Read knows she has people supporting her.
She's not a pariah, she is believed and she is loved, by many.

 

[sunshineray]

What’s remarkable is so many people can see corruption with their own eyes and make educated decisions by seeing the lack of evidence.

Not the way I see it, especially with the TB followers, not remarkable at all, just sensationalistic. JMO

 

[Slebby]

Civil suit could still move forward. Karen’s defense can cite the acquittal in the criminal case in the civil suit; however, standards of proof are different in civil vs criminal court. It is possible for her to be acquitted on all charges and then lose the civil case. Not that she has much left to take, anyway…

I don’t know how a civil suit against KR could be successful. She has loads of testimony and scientific evidence from the criminal trials that fail to show JO was struck by KR’s vehicle. You would think, even with a lower burden of proof, there would have to be some proof??

And wouldn’t JO’s family want to have the actual person or persons responsible held accountable?

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Not the way I see it, especially with the TB followers, not remarkable at all, just sensationalistic. JMO

TB has nothing to do with physics.

 

[Tortoise]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1934985620083909105

 

[bmacmillan1]

I would be doing the same thing to people/fans who believe in me and love me. It must feel really good to know that so many people have her back. Imo

Whether she's guilty or not, it's in absolute poor taste the way she is behaving in public. She seems to have forgotten the victim was her boyfriend, does she have no compassion for his mother and family at all...

 

[lohrtabitha]

i think the judge would be harsh with her but doubt she would ever spend a night in jail.

I pray you are right!

 

[turaj]

jury has a question....would not doubt they have now gotten to verdict form ?

 

[pcrum12]

Jury has a question!

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Jury has a question -- "why are we even here?" JMO

 

[sunshineray]

What is wrong with Karen smiling and waving while on trial?

Apparantly nothing for her, seems she's loving the notoriety, just like any of the many "reality" tv stars. But it's just considered good lawyering and good trial strategy these days, par for the course, to sow and reap online fame JMO

 

[lohrtabitha]

Whether she's guilty or not, it's in absolute poor taste the way she is behaving in public. She seems to have forgotten the victim was her boyfriend, does she have no compassion for his mother and family at all...

Well the Alberts and Mccabes held a party last week. I think that is absolute poor taste.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Apparantly nothing for her, seems she's loving the notoriety, just like any of the many "reality" tv stars. But it's just considered good lawyering and good trial strategy these days, par for the course, to sow and reap online fame JMO

Maybe she just likes to smile. What were her smiling habits before she was put on trial? Just trying to understand how judgement gets passed to say "she's loving the notoriety". Yeah, I'm sure she's loving having her life upended for years, losing her job and all of her money. SMH.

 

[turaj]

at least with a question we can get a sense of where they are at.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

Whether she's guilty or not, it's in absolute poor taste the way she is behaving in public. She seems to have forgotten the victim was her boyfriend, does she have no compassion for his mother and family at all...

Honestly, IMO what’s in poor taste is policing the behavior of a woman who’s been under the weight of a murder accusation longer than she even dated John. Karen has spent years defending herself against a charge that has NEVER been proven. I don’t expect her to perform eternal mourning to satisfy strangers ideas of appropriate grief.

Karen has even specifically asked her supporters not to cheer or disrupt court proceedings. She is a class act. You don’t have to like her, but there’s no need to twist her composure into morality. She’s shown far more restraint than most people ever could in her position, IMO.

Edit: Removed a phrase that could be perceived as snippy - not my intention!

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Whether she's guilty or not, it's in absolute poor taste the way she is behaving in public. She seems to have forgotten the victim was her boyfriend, does she have no compassion for his mother and family at all...

She's not the one who couldn't be bothered to get out of bed when a "friend" is lying dead on their front lawn.