VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #36 Retrial

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  • #121
There is some out there... you can google, I don't think I am allowed to post. When Dr. L was testifying, I was looking at the photo online and I can see what she was talking about ... scratches above and below the laceration.

ETA: oops, I see someone posted it.

I just searched and saw some autopsy photos of JOKs head injury- the laceration is not down low on the occipital bone near the neck as I had thought based on descriptions.

The pics I’m seeing are not super clear- but I can see that his scalp is scratched up and red above the laceration.
The laceration is a pretty clear line with widened gap in the center.
I did a search of split scalp from banging head and it looks like those kinds of injuries. Yuk!

IMO
 
  • #122
@less0305
please keep posting. I know some of the responses can be annoying or harsh, but it would be worse to have a board that has only one voice.
What one voice might that be??? IMO, the posts and opinions have been evenly divided but what has been frustrating to me is not that someone disagrees with my opinion. It has been the obvious 'rage-baiting' I guess it's called, I didn't know that was common and didn't pick up on that. I've followed many cases on WS and never saw that like I saw it here.

The authors IMO, cared less about this case. They 'tag-teamed' to keep the pages going with just random off the cuff babble. It was obvious that's all that they were here for.

I've posted for over 2 years. I watched both trials. I didn't care one way or another except that I wanted justice for JOK. I knew nothing prior to the first trial and watched like everyone else as the trials unfolded. It became apparent to me early on that there was a faction or agenda to convict KR no matter what it took to do so. Add to that the bias from the bench to confuse the first jury.

In the first trial the CW led by Lally threw everything out there to the jury and in the end the jury hung, aided IMO by the judge's rush to call a mistrial before anyone could see why the jury hung.

This trial was streamlined by both sides with less testimony and less evidence. The CW had very little to work with and with inadequate experts using smoke and mirrors dispite the help from the bench and the cherry picking of statutes, laws, etc, IMO, still presented a pathetic case costing MA taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars.

The defense, even with their hands tied, rancor from the bench and on their own dime with the help of the public who also saw the injustice, put together a reasonable, realistic and factual case.

It's now in the hands of the jury but not without the bench pulling out whatever last minute stops possible. I hope KR is found NG. No one deserves to be railroaded like this. She is representative of john q public, and what has happened to her could happen to anyone. I certainly hope there is further investigation so that JOK gets justice.
 
  • #123
I'm not 100% sure, but the only official I've heard actually confirm that the FBI has closed their investigation was Canton police chief Helena Rafferty. Who promptly announced her retirment shortly thereafter after only 2 years on the job and while only in her mid 50's.

When the CW is unable to convict Read of anything more than a stand-alone DUI charge, we're left with a murdered Boston cop found dead on another Boston cop's lawn and no actual investigation into his murder thanks to the State police.

I thought the Birchmore case would never be solved thanks again to the Canton and State police refusing to investigate a local cop. Who was on video entering her apartment minutes before she went silent forever. But the Feds did get him years later. So I'm not convinced the FBI isn't still lurking in the background here.
I'm right there with you. The FBI is always watching. It make physically sick to think of how Sandra was preyed upon when she was a juvenile. That cop pedophile ,rapist, murderer took her virginity. It's sick. I'm so glad he was caught and so sad an innocent young woman's life was taken.imo
 
  • #124
the fact that so many here are thinking guilty (a surprise after closing) makes me think we could be in for another hung jury.
JMO, but some on here by their own admission have not watched both trials and have based their opinions on documentaries, podcasts and X, etc. Certainly not getting a complete understanding of the case.
 
  • #125
The Prosecution and The Defense have provided stories that attempt to link sets of facts,
Because of the small window of
Time and Location that all of the events appear to have happened.

These facts do not have to be related in a cause and effect manner to be true. There are many other facts that aren’t a part of the stories- so they are not mentioned.

KR Taillight cracked, or broken into 40+ pieces
KR dropped JOK off near the flagpole
KR and JOK had been drinking
KR and JOK argued
KR had been flirting with BH
JOK head injuries consistent with a fall backward and hit against a hard surface with a ledge
JOK found near flagpole near his removed shoe, cap, phone

These Don’t Work with The Conspiracy in the House Theory
JOK was found near the broken bar glass that was in his hand when he left KR’s car.
JOK doesn’t have wounds consistent with a fist fight
JOK found in the front yard of the cop that was supposed to be part of the coverup
No one claims to have seen JOK in the house
No one claims to have seen the dog in the house


These Don’t Work with KR having hit JOK with her car Theory
JOKs injuries are not consistent with a collision
JOKs arm injuries are consistent with dog bite

But to me, neither of the theories match all the facts.
And.. the facts can be explained without using either of the theories we’ve been given.

It is possible it was an accident, he got out of the car near the curb and tripped and fell, dropped and broke the glass, fell backwards and hit his head.
No one was to blame until evidence was created to pin the death on KR.

Many actions were then taken by people, and seem to be swallowed as normal by those who agree with that side, and abnormal to those that don’t agree.

And yes there are too many questions, which means there is Reasonable Doubt
Reasonable Doubt = Not Guilty
But, Not Guilty does not mean KR did not do something to cause JOKs death… Anymore than KR being found Guilty will mean cops didn’t plant evidence.

It seems that the story that works is between the two theories

IMO
BBM

I agree that there’s something we are missing. BUT, I do think the things bolded by me can indeed line up with the house theory.

If he didn’t make it any further than the garage before a fight broke out then when he entered, whoever was in that garage or whoever fought with him would have noticed the cocktail glass. They likely brought him down to the basement after he hit his head on the stairs. Assuming he was down there until 5am (my assumption based on iPhone temp and his core temp), they had a good amount of time to plan and knew they should put him back on the lawn with everything he arrived with (shoe, hat, glass, & straw). They needed to make it look like he never made it into the house. And technically, he didn’t if they brought him into the house from the garage. Remember “Tell him that guy was never in the house.” BA: Exactly!

I think he does have injuries consistent with a fight. The split on his eye. The swollen eyes. Yes, brain injuries cause that, but so do punches. Couldn’t the swollen eyes be from both. He may have only been hit once in the right eye where the cut is. And his hand, yes there’s a bruise from what looks to be where an IV was placed, but there are other bruises too.

If these people knew they were untouchable, they probably REALLY thought they could just say he got hit by a snowplow, so didn’t feel the need to place his body and “belongings” any further than the lawn of of a cop. After all, it seems they are pretty untouchable. They lied without abandon under oath because they KNEW they wouldn’t face consequences. I’ve never seen annything like it. SO many lying witnesses in one trial. Proven lies….

Most of the people there likely never saw him in the house if he was mortally injured in the garage shortly after he arrived and went in through the garage. I find it interesting that when asked on the stand about the doors on the front of the house, Nicole Albert says there are TWO, not three. She says there’s one in the middle like a main front door and there’s one to the side of it. She fails to mention the garage door. And Jen McCabe was shady about that door too. (Personally, i think he went to one of the front doors that go into the house, not the garage, and was told to go to the garage door.) i think that’s why Karen saw him in the light in the threshold then looks away and looks back and he was gone. He went to the garage door during the time she looked away. The kids/young adults in the house likely heard and saw nothing. After kids were gone they probably moved him down to the basement.

Maybe chloe’ was in the garage when he got there— to be kept away from the guests— and attacked when the scuffle started in the garage.

I’m not saying these things are facts, but it COULD have happened this way.
 
  • #126
There’s one image in particular of his head wound that has more quality lighting than others. You can see in this one image how it was DEEP. Did the ME say how deep? I missed that. I know there were no depth measurements taken on arm wounds. What about his head?

You can clearly see this wound was not skin that just split open from impact on the ground. It was a deep gash. I can’t post here since considered graphic. But this one image in particular clearly shows it was not caused by the ground and that it was a ridged object like Dr. Laposata said. The depth of it shows that.
 
  • #127
To be honest, I don't think it's any kind of letter or symbol at all. Under the redness to the right of it, you can see two more arc shapes of a similar dimension. He either landed on or was hit with something, once or repeatedly, that left that impression.

MOO
RBBM. According to Dr Laposata he fell and/or was forced backwards onto a hard, ridged surface. Per both her and Dr Wolfe, the wound doesn't have the denting,( ?) skull pushing inwards, indicative of a blow to the back of head whilst in an upright position. I don't have that quite right, not sure of the language, but testimony was this wound was not diagnostic of a blow by both defense and CW experts. They had many more details from the autopsy report, both external and internal examinations around the laceration. Jmo

Not sure we learnt much from ME other than blunt force (which includes a wound from falling back onto a hard surface). Jmo
 
  • #128
I cannot stand it when KR smiles or has a smirk on her face when she was in the courtroom. Ugh! 😑
“My face, I don’t mind it, because I’m behind it, It’s the people in front that I jar.” Anthony Euwer
I think that John thought she was pretty.
 
  • #129
There’s one image in particular of his head wound that has more quality lighting than others. You can see in this one image how it was DEEP. Did the ME say how deep? I missed that. I know there were no depth measurements taken on arm wounds. What about his head?

You can clearly see this wound was not skin that just split open from impact on the ground. It was a deep gash. I can’t post here since considered graphic. But this one image in particular clearly shows it was not caused by the ground and that it was a ridged object like Dr. Laposata said. The depth of it shows that.

During the last trial, one of the medical experts made a point to explain that the head wound was very deep.

The ground wasnt rock hard. It was covered in grass and a light dusting of snow. I can imagine how anyone could conclude the ground alone could cause that sort of penetrating head wound. It's ridiculous.

The arm wounds were superficial for sure. And there were only a limited number of puncture wounds on his sweatshirt, again proving the dancing taillight pieces didn't cause them. Obviously an animal.

No bumps, bruises or fractures. There is no possibility "the guy" was hit by a vehicle of any sort.
 
  • #130
Is no one talking about the back tail light being broken? wasn't there video of police officers in a garage fiddling with the back light after the car was brought in? was the tail light broken at the scene?
 
  • #131
Is no one talking about the back tail light being broken? wasn't there video of police officers in a garage fiddling with the back light after the car was brought in? was the tail light broken at the scene?

Um. This has been discussed endlessly out here.
 
  • #132
Is no one talking about the back tail light being broken? wasn't there video of police officers in a garage fiddling with the back light after the car was brought in? was the tail light broken at the scene?
Oh we have! Not only that but we saw the red parts at her parents house and we saw the red reflection of it at John’s house and we’ve also had the testimony of Michael Barros of the fighting police department saying the same.
 
  • #133
Still seems like the blow would have to be greater. More force than just falling backwards. I flew off of the back of a motorcycle and only ended up with a big knot. If I had hit a sharp object, maybe it would have broken the skin.

But, the cut by his eye did come from the front....

I think the ridged surface, whatever caused him to fall backwards was sudden, being drunk and less reflexes, all of it contributes to the fall and the force.

Go back to Dr. Wolf's (the neurosurgeon) testimony. It happens a lot. Especially drunk people according to him.
 
  • #134
I just searched and saw some autopsy photos of JOKs head injury- the laceration is not down low on the occipital bone near the neck as I had thought based on descriptions.

The pics I’m seeing are not super clear- but I can see that his scalp is scratched up and red above the laceration.
The laceration is a pretty clear line with widened gap in the center.
I did a search of split scalp from banging head and it looks like those kinds of injuries. Yuk!

IMO
almost like he hit the edge of a cement step or something similar. IMO
 
  • #135
almost like he hit the edge of a cement step or something similar. IMO
Or his head was deliberately smashed against something like that which would look to be a similar mechanism of injury to a forensic pathologist.
 
  • #136
I have been lurking on this board for a year, intensely so since April. I have benefited from so many good minds and smart hearts here as I followed T2. Thinking of the coming days, it’s time for me to stop lurking for a minute, and share my most recurring thoughts. I've been away from here since Friday, and this is my first Websleuths post ever.

IMO Karen Read has had awesome advocates, in court and out. I think she had a better than average shot at this jury. If it seemed at times the judge was in the tank for the prosecution, well that is to be expected, in my experience and perspective on criminal justice. Now I worry that if she is found guilty on even the least of the charges, what vengeance will rain down on her at sentencing. Forcing trials to happen, instead of negotiating a plea, is usually treated as akin to a separate offense. IMO

For a long time, I was skeptical of her guilt, and now I am persuaded Karen Read did not hit John O’Keefe with her car. My reasons track closely with those of many other posters with whom I’ve shared a thumbs up. Missing pieces of the puzzle, gaps in the narrative, the overcharging, the disinterest in determining what really happened. IMO the fix was in from early on, and it did not take a vast conspiracy. Police and police-adjacent people – including media with access to power -- know what to do in certain situations. It’s not uncommon. Just my opinion, and I’m not going to respond if I am poked for more specificity.

IMO it is unconscionable to hold someone accountable for something when there is no real consensus on what that something is, in this case how a dead person came to be dead. Except here, IMO, it was unconscionable from the beginning to even try. The O’Keefe family and his friends deserved more, even if they don’t see it that way. IMO. I wish for Karen Read to be acquitted and have the quality and length of life she needs to heal.
 
  • #137
I have been lurking on this board for a year, intensely so since April. I have benefited from so many good minds and smart hearts here as I followed T2. Thinking of the coming days, it’s time for me to stop lurking for a minute, and share my most recurring thoughts. I've been away from here since Friday, and this is my first Websleuths post ever.

IMO Karen Read has had awesome advocates, in court and out. I think she had a better than average shot at this jury. If it seemed at times the judge was in the tank for the prosecution, well that is to be expected, in my experience and perspective on criminal justice. Now I worry that if she is found guilty on even the least of the charges, what vengeance will rain down on her at sentencing. Forcing trials to happen, instead of negotiating a plea, is usually treated as akin to a separate offense. IMO

For a long time, I was skeptical of her guilt, and now I am persuaded Karen Read did not hit John O’Keefe with her car. My reasons track closely with those of many other posters with whom I’ve shared a thumbs up. Missing pieces of the puzzle, gaps in the narrative, the overcharging, the disinterest in determining what really happened. IMO the fix was in from early on, and it did not take a vast conspiracy. Police and police-adjacent people – including media with access to power -- know what to do in certain situations. It’s not uncommon. Just my opinion, and I’m not going to respond if I am poked for more specificity.

IMO it is unconscionable to hold someone accountable for something when there is no real consensus on what that something is, in this case how a dead person came to be dead. Except here, IMO, it was unconscionable from the beginning to even try. The O’Keefe family and his friends deserved more, even if they don’t see it that way. IMO. I wish for Karen Read to be acquitted and have the quality and length of life she needs to heal.
Welcome to Websleuths... happy to see you are no longer lurking :)
 
  • #138
Karen Read was first portrayed as either vengeance from a "scorned woman" or a violent drunk, but this warped narrative continues despite forensic evidence says otherwise. Social media only makes this distortion worse, stoking outrage and maintaining the false notion that "everyone believes she’s guilty."

Institutional bias only exacerbates the issue. When law enforcement is involved, many people blindly trust authority, even when the evidence is flimsy. They assume the police would never charge someone without a solid reason, conveniently overlooking the fact that the lead investigator was actually dismissed for mishandling this very case.

Additionally, Karen has been reduced to a stereotype, the "Karen." This archetype of the entitled, irrational woman predisposes people, even subconsciously, to desire her guilt to be confirmed.

In my view, this situation extends beyond Karen Read. It reflects how our society treats women accused of crimes, particularly those who do not conform to the "perfect victim" stereotype. These same dynamics were evident during the Salem witch trials.

I hope that our society as a whole can develop the practice of pausing and reflecting first, as bias thrives on quick judgments, and consciously make it a habit to ask ourselves, Is this belief based on facts? Fairness is not a passive state; it requires active resistance against the mental shortcuts we tend to take. Imo
Beautifully said. I try to “check myself” on all things. I don’t ever want to not think critically and simply “conform” based on emotions and feelings. That’s why i keep saying that I personally think someone in the house is responsible, but there’s enough evidence to prove that according to our justice system which is a brilliant system — when RESPECTED. There’s not enough evidence in this case to prove ANYONE’S guilt. Sure we all want justice for John O’keefe, but most of the evidence wasn’t collected and what WAS, was mishandled. Therefore, unfortunately, there will likely never be REAL justice for John O’keefe.

I think MOST police officers are simply trying to serve and protect. But I’m not so naive to think people in positions of power don’t abuse it. This case is a perfect example - all the way up to the judge. The ONLY officer involved in this case who acted properly and without bias was the one from another town called in to assist the towing. EVERY SINGLE OTHER OFFICER involved responded improperly - proven liars under oath/perjury; proven bias and conflict of interest of investigators and officers DIRECTLY involved; and mishandled evidence (both tangible evidence as well as witnesses) and evidence simply NOT collected (again both tangible evidence as well as witnesses).

Guilty or not guilty, just based on LAWS broken and legal standards not met, this should have never been allowed to go to trial. ESPECIALLY a second one! There was SO much misconduct of those in positions of power and SO many legal standards not met.

Approximately 8.2% of cases were dismissed in the US federal criminal justice system in 2022. This figure represents total dismissals for various reasons, including evidence issues. courts must adhere to strict legal standards when evaluating evidence, requiring prosecutors to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt BEFORE proceeding to trial.

When prosecutors can’t meet basic evidentiary thresholds there is usually motion for pre-indictment dismissals — to stop prosecution BEFORE formal charges are filed.

Insufficient evidence is a primary reason for cases not proceeding to trial. Courts consistently uphold that prosecutors must present substantial, reliable evidence not mere suspicions or weak connections. When evidence is missing, tampered with, or inadequately corroborated, there’s strong grounds for dismissal, protecting citizens’ rights against unwarranted prosecution.

This case should have never gone this far, and I’d be saying that even if I thought she was guilty. I’d say that about ANY case that failed to “play by the rules”. There’s a reason we have these standards. The reason is to protect innocent people from being framed. When we look the other way when these standards aren’t met simply b/c we really really really THINK someone is guilty, we create a system that can be abused and will be abused. ANYone can become a victim of framing when citizens no longer care about laws and standards for ALL fellow citizens. Emotions and feelings are becoming more powerful than laws and facts in this country. Very scary.

If she is convicted, hopefully she will file wrongful conviction and be exonerated. The leading factors in wrongful convictions are:
Eyewitness misidentification
False confessions
Police and prosecutorial misconduct
Flawed forensic evidence
Perjured testimony

The last FOUR of the above factors are present in this case.
 
  • #139
This may have been discussed before, but…

If you had an attractive and 40 something bachelor friend, and he’d never been married, and he had the responsibility of raising his niece and nephew, wouldn’t you be thrilled for him to be seriously dating a wealthy and well-educated woman from a stable family, and hoping he would marry her?

A 42 year old woman who has bought a nice house and has been able to put $5 million in her retirement account, and seems to love the kids?

Would you prefer for him to pick someone else, maybe the sister of one of his brother officers? I would love for my son (much younger than John) to bring home a woman like that! Even if I didn’t like her immediately, I would learn to love her.
 
  • #140
I have been lurking on this board for a year, intensely so since April. I have benefited from so many good minds and smart hearts here as I followed T2. Thinking of the coming days, it’s time for me to stop lurking for a minute, and share my most recurring thoughts. I've been away from here since Friday, and this is my first Websleuths post ever.

IMO Karen Read has had awesome advocates, in court and out. I think she had a better than average shot at this jury. If it seemed at times the judge was in the tank for the prosecution, well that is to be expected, in my experience and perspective on criminal justice. Now I worry that if she is found guilty on even the least of the charges, what vengeance will rain down on her at sentencing. Forcing trials to happen, instead of negotiating a plea, is usually treated as akin to a separate offense. IMO

For a long time, I was skeptical of her guilt, and now I am persuaded Karen Read did not hit John O’Keefe with her car. My reasons track closely with those of many other posters with whom I’ve shared a thumbs up. Missing pieces of the puzzle, gaps in the narrative, the overcharging, the disinterest in determining what really happened. IMO the fix was in from early on, and it did not take a vast conspiracy. Police and police-adjacent people – including media with access to power -- know what to do in certain situations. It’s not uncommon. Just my opinion, and I’m not going to respond if I am poked for more specificity.

IMO it is unconscionable to hold someone accountable for something when there is no real consensus on what that something is, in this case how a dead person came to be dead. Except here, IMO, it was unconscionable from the beginning to even try. The O’Keefe family and his friends deserved more, even if they don’t see it that way. IMO. I wish for Karen Read to be acquitted and have the quality and length of life she needs to heal.
Welcome out of lurkdom :) I love the name!
 
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