VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #36 Retrial

[AngTxGal]

There’s one image in particular of his head wound that has more quality lighting than others. You can see in this one image how it was DEEP. Did the ME say how deep? I missed that. I know there were no depth measurements taken on arm wounds. What about his head?

You can clearly see this wound was not skin that just split open from impact on the ground. It was a deep gash. I can’t post here since considered graphic. But this one image in particular clearly shows it was not caused by the ground and that it was a ridged object like Dr. Laposata said. The depth of it shows that.

I disagree, the ME and other forensic experts described that wound in the same way and as the cause of death. It wasn’t described as a ridged object- it was blunt force trauma.

The forensic pathologist who examined the brain specifically said it was consistent with a fall backwards impacting the head- laceration
The surface of impact was described as possibly ledged with a texture by Lapasada

Internal injury was called coup contra coup injury- the first impact is the coup, and the reaction of the brain to hit against the opposite inside of the skull is the contra coup- causing his black eyes/ bruising from the inside, and brain swelling and bleeding etc.

A google of what an impact to back of head from fall to a hard surface looks like and you’ll see many of them- a split scalp.

I was elbowed in the orbit bone below the eye (during a basketball game in high-school)- and the laceration looked very similar just smaller- it split open with a gap and required stitches. Ouch!

IMO

 

[Leilei]

I disagree, the ME and other forensic experts described that wound in the same way and as the cause of death. It wasn’t described as a ridged object- it was blunt force trauma.

The forensic pathologist who examined the brain specifically said it was consistent with a fall backwards impacting the head- laceration
The surface of impact was described as possibly ledged with a texture by Lapasada

Internal injury was called coup contra coup injury- the first impact is the coup, and the reaction of the brain to hit against the opposite inside of the skull is the contra coup- causing his black eyes/ bruising from the inside, and brain swelling and bleeding etc.

A google of what an impact to back of head from fall to a hard surface looks like and you’ll see many of them- a split scalp.

I was elbowed in the orbit bone below the eye (during a basketball game in high-school)- and the laceration looked very similar just smaller- it split open with a gap and required stitches. Ouch!

IMO

Not correct. Dr. Laposata testified that, in her expert opinion, John O’Keefe sustained his fatal head injuries by falling backward onto “something that had a little ridge,”

Karen Read trial: Defense experts put O’Keefe’s injuries, Read’s taillight under the microscope

Read’s retrial became a battle of the experts Monday as jurors heard from defense witnesses and prosecutors teased their rebuttal.

www.boston.com

 

[nightowl1975]

But there were never any footprints to or from the flagpole. From everything i've seen, heard and read, he seemed to have flown in the air and landed with no snow around him disturbed. Am I correct on that? or did they mention snow disturbance?

As for not finding footprints in the snow around 6am:

1. They didn’t look for footprints.
2. There are zero photos of where JO was found or the area surrounding it at the time of discovery.
3. Karen, JM, and KR got out and ran over to JO pretty much immediately, and who knows how much running around they did prior to EMS arriving. Then EMS got there and did their thing. Lots of possible footprints happening.
4. It was actively snowing by this point, so even if all of the above was accounted for, how long would it have taken to cover tracks made at 5am? I say 5am bc IMO that’s the latest his body would’ve been moved out to the lawn.

All IMO.

 

[ShadyLady]

What was JMc's reason for not going to the house and checking on her sister (and getting help)? I mean the reason she told the court?

She told officer on the scene....they were sleeping...

 

[Wishbone]

I disagree, the ME and other forensic experts described that wound in the same way and as the cause of death. It wasn’t described as a ridged object- it was blunt force trauma.

The forensic pathologist who examined the brain specifically said it was consistent with a fall backwards impacting the head- laceration
The surface of impact was described as possibly ledged with a texture by Lapasada

Internal injury was called coup contra coup injury- the first impact is the coup, and the reaction of the brain to hit against the opposite inside of the skull is the contra coup- causing his black eyes/ bruising from the inside, and brain swelling and bleeding etc.

A google of what an impact to back of head from fall to a hard surface looks like and you’ll see many of them- a split scalp.

I was elbowed in the orbit bone below the eye (during a basketball game in high-school)- and the laceration looked very similar just smaller- it split open with a gap and required stitches. Ouch!

IMO

Karen Read's defense called forensic pathologist Dr. Elizabeth Laposata to the stand in her murder trial Monday, a forensic pathologist who testified that victim John O'Keefe's brain injuries appeared to have stemmed from a fall backward onto a ridged surface.

Karen Read’s defense links John O’Keefe head wound to fall, not vehicle impact

Karen Read's defense presents expert testimony that Officer O'Keefe's fatal injuries resulted from falling backward, with facial wounds caused by a separate impact.

www.yahoo.com

 

[jesse]

She told officer on the scene....they were sleeping...

Didn't she talk to her sister on the phone before heading over to 34 Fairview with Kerrie and Karen? Am I imagining that?

Makes it even weirder if the Alberts heard the commotion going on outside in their front yard and didn't come out. I love my sleep, too, but at that point if my recollection is accurate, they knew John was missing and that the three were coming to 34 Fairview to look for him. Then they hear first responders and sirens etc. and still don't come out? It begs credulity.

 

[AngTxGal]

Not correct. Dr. Laposata testified that, in her expert opinion, John O’Keefe sustained his fatal head injuries by falling backward onto “something that had a little ridge,”

Karen Read trial: Defense experts put O’Keefe’s injuries, Read’s taillight under the microscope

Read’s retrial became a battle of the experts Monday as jurors heard from defense witnesses and prosecutors teased their rebuttal.

www.boston.com

Laposata Testimony describing JOK’s head injury
Time stamp 1:16:00-1:24
A ledge is described, such as a step 1:42-1:48

She is describing the surface his head hit when he fell and not an object hitting his head.
She describes a surface with an edge and texture that made vertical scrapes on the skin.

She says the laceration is a horizontal tear of the scalp- it wasn’t cut by an object.

Like pencil vertical pencil scratches- not a single ridge
Jackson specifically says a ‘ledged surface’ and not flat ground.

The defense is trying to imply a step- like the one that leads into the garage of the house.
The judge sustains an objection by the prosecution- the showing of a photo of the steps. So they can’t talk about the inside of the house.

Jackson shows her pictures of the yard and asks if anything out there is consistent with what he could have hit his head on- she says no- not the ground would have dirt etc.

I can see how it would be confusing based on how it was described but he wasn’t hit by something - his head came down on something.
A focus on the wound being DEEP implies it was cut by an object- which isn’t what happened. It cannot be deeper than the scalp is thick- because it did not depress the skull
The scalp was split open by the impact from the distance of a fall backwards.
The injury is massive- causing multiple fractures of his skull that radiated around his head and caused his brain to bounce forward. That cut isn’t from a ‘little ridge’.

IMO

 

[ShadyLady]

Didn't she talk to her sister on the phone before heading over to 34 Fairview with Kerrie and Karen? Am I imagining that?

Makes it even weirder if the Alberts heard the commotion going on outside in their front yard and didn't come out. I love my sleep, too, but at that point if my recollection is accurate, they knew John was missing and that the three were coming to 34 Fairview to look for him. Then they hear first responders and sirens etc. and still don't come out? It begs credulity.

Yes Jen admitted to calling her sister. And then again when they got to 34th.

 

[keek]

Didn't she talk to her sister on the phone before heading over to 34 Fairview with Kerrie and Karen? Am I imagining that?

Makes it even weirder if the Alberts heard the commotion going on outside in their front yard and didn't come out. I love my sleep, too, but at that point if my recollection is accurate, they knew John was missing and that the three were coming to 34 Fairview to look for him. Then they hear first responders and sirens etc. and still don't come out? It begs credulity.

Well, they did know. It's why they were 'sleeping'. All in the trials. IMO

 

[keek]

She told officer on the scene....they were sleeping...

When suggested she go tell the ALBERTS, her story on that THIS TRIAL, was in a mode of not wanting to flp them out or make them think some TERRIBLE EVENT had happened as she 'woke' them. Great response from Defense, 'It did'. Boom 'there was' might be closer IMO

 

[justwannahelp]

I disagree, the ME and other forensic experts described that wound in the same way and as the cause of death. It wasn’t described as a ridged object- it was blunt force trauma.

The forensic pathologist who examined the brain specifically said it was consistent with a fall backwards impacting the head- laceration
The surface of impact was described as possibly ledged with a texture by Lapasada

Internal injury was called coup contra coup injury- the first impact is the coup, and the reaction of the brain to hit against the opposite inside of the skull is the contra coup- causing his black eyes/ bruising from the inside, and brain swelling and bleeding etc.

A google of what an impact to back of head from fall to a hard surface looks like and you’ll see many of them- a split scalp.

I was elbowed in the orbit bone below the eye (during a basketball game in high-school)- and the laceration looked very similar just smaller- it split open with a gap and required stitches. Ouch!

IMO

ouch!

It didn’t look like blunt force - a hammer, weapon or baseball bat per se, but it looked too deep to just be the ground?? The steps would still cause coup counter coup, right?

There’s one image in particular that i saw for the first time yesterday. It is much better quality than the others, and you can see pretty deep into his head.

 

[Malleeboy]

Didn't she talk to her sister on the phone before heading over to 34 Fairview with Kerrie and Karen? Am I imagining that?

Makes it even weirder if the Alberts heard the commotion going on outside in their front yard and didn't come out. I love my sleep, too, but at that point if my recollection is accurate, they knew John was missing and that the three were coming to 34 Fairview to look for him. Then they hear first responders and sirens etc. and still don't come out? It begs credulity.

My understanding is Jen admitted the call but said she didn't speak to her sister, except it connected for 38 secs.

 

[justwannahelp]

Didn't she talk to her sister on the phone before heading over to 34 Fairview with Kerrie and Karen? Am I imagining that?

Makes it even weirder if the Alberts heard the commotion going on outside in their front yard and didn't come out. I love my sleep, too, but at that point if my recollection is accurate, they knew John was missing and that the three were coming to 34 Fairview to look for him. Then they hear first responders and sirens etc. and still don't come out? It begs credulity.

Yes. There was a really short phone call from JM to Nicole a little after 5am.

 

[Malleeboy]

Cleverest move in Defence case.
Judge Canone insisted that Dr Laposata couldn't talk about dog bites but only animal bites.
So, she mentioned that there were canine teeth marks, which many mammals have but everybody thinks dog bite when you here canine bites.

 

[Leilei]

Laposata Testimony describing JOK’s head injury
Time stamp 1:16:00-1:24
A ledge is described, such as a step 1:42-1:48

She is describing the surface his head hit when he fell and not an object hitting his head.
She describes a surface with an edge and texture that made vertical scrapes on the skin.

She says the laceration is a horizontal tear of the scalp- it wasn’t cut by an object.

Like pencil vertical pencil scratches- not a single ridge
Jackson specifically says a ‘ledged surface’ and not flat ground.

The defense is trying to imply a step- like the one that leads into the garage of the house.
The judge sustains an objection by the prosecution- the showing of a photo of the steps. So they can’t talk about the inside of the house.

Jackson shows her pictures of the yard and asks if anything out there is consistent with what he could have hit his head on- she says no- not the ground would have dirt etc.

I can see how it would be confusing based on how it was described but he wasn’t hit by something - his head came down on something.
A focus on the wound being DEEP implies it was cut by an object- which isn’t what happened. It cannot be deeper than the scalp is thick- because it did not depress the skull
The scalp was split open by the impact from the distance of a fall backwards.
The injury is massive- causing multiple fractures of his skull that radiated around his head and caused his brain to bounce forward. That cut isn’t from a ‘little ridge’.

IMO

This is what you posted:
I disagree, the ME and other forensic experts described that wound in the same way and as the cause of death. It wasn’t described as a ridged object- it was blunt force trauma.

But it was, in fact, described as a ridged object. Not sure where the disconnect is, but we can agree to disagree.
IMO.

 

[nightowl1975]

Didn't she talk to her sister on the phone before heading over to 34 Fairview with Kerrie and Karen? Am I imagining that?

Makes it even weirder if the Alberts heard the commotion going on outside in their front yard and didn't come out. I love my sleep, too, but at that point if my recollection is accurate, they knew John was missing and that the three were coming to 34 Fairview to look for him. Then they hear first responders and sirens etc. and still don't come out? It begs credulity.

JM says she didn’t actually talk to her sister during the 5am call. I can’t remember if she specifically said nobody answered though. I do remember wishing they had asked if ANYONE answered (i.e. did she talk to BA instead?). But according to JM, she didn’t talk to her sister at the 5am call. It lasted 38 seconds. Odd.

 

[nightowl1975]

This is what you posted:
I disagree, the ME and other forensic experts described that wound in the same way and as the cause of death. It wasn’t described as a ridged object- it was blunt force trauma.

But it was, in fact, described as a ridged object. Not sure where the disconnect is, but we can agree to disagree.
IMO.

I found these posts strange myself. My understanding is he died of blunt force trauma to the head caused by falling backward onto a ridged object. It seemed to me both posts were pretty much saying the same thing though. Yes, blunt force trauma. Yes, falling back onto a ridged object.

 

[Forest_Wood]

The forensic pathologist Dr L apparently thought something close to or inside the garage or the house was the cause of John's death, but the judge wouldn't let her speak to that. I find it so weird they bring in credible experts who are not permitted to give their opinions on the full story. So we have to guess.
MOO

 

[Leilei]

I found these posts strange myself. My understanding is he died of blunt force trauma to the head caused by falling backward onto a ridged object. It seemed to me both posts were pretty much saying the same thing though. Yes, blunt force trauma. Yes, falling back onto a ridged object.

Blunt force trauma, yes, but with the ridge part it narrows down what caused the fatal wound.
I get what you're saying, though.
IMO.

 

[ShadyLady]

Yes. There was a really short phone call from JM to Nicole a little after 5am.

I thought she also called Julie.