MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #5

[Universecalling]

One thing I learned tonight… physics stand no chance when mental gymnastics are at play.
I’m fascinated, but also shocked and horrified.
Or as Jenny Jen Jen would say “shahhk and hahhraahh”.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Nope, he said it was when he was parked on the street and leaving to go to the pd.

Brian Higgins said when he left 34 Fairview Road between 12:30 and 1 a.m. on Jan. 29, 2022, snow was falling harder than before, but not enough to need his plow. He said he began driving his Jeep but heard the plow grinding on the ground, so he stopped and lifted the plow before driving away.

Karen Read trial: Read kissed Brian Higgins 2 weeks before O’Keefe’s death

In bombshell testimony Friday, special agent Brian Higgins spoke about his romantic relationship with Karen Read in the weeks before her boyfriend's death.

www.masslive.com

At Link...BH saying, “I always tell the truth," TOTALLY convinced me. (eye roll!!)

 

[Spectrix]

I have a question about the alleged three point turn. In what scenario does this result in running over a passenger who just exited the car onto the footpath?

Was KR supposed to have backed into the driveway or over the footpath during the turn? I would usually make a three point turn on the road itself, certainly not over the footpath. Maybe into a driveway if the road was particularly narrow.

 

[housewife]

All RSBM

...but BH has good vocabulary and probably higher-than-average IQ.

I respectfully do not share that belief.

About functional alcoholics…many do fit the description. However, there exist people with unusually good processing of alcohol. It is a separate group. They might be on the way to functional alcoholism, but not yet there.

I don't think that's how that works?

 

[housewife]

Yikes…. so was that apparent delay perhaps a ‘gift’? A timing delay? An opportunity? For avoidance? Makes me wonder if perhaps the ‘dates’ were ‘adjusted’? I won’t comment here on the investigative, prosecution witnesses, or prosecution’s tactics. Suffice to say - Quite amazing. Yet again. MOO

It concerns me that court orders are either being filtered or delayed for the witnesses.

Who is in charge of communicating that, Lally??

 

[HarmonyE.]

It concerns me that court orders are either being filtered or delayed for the witnesses.

Who is in charge of communicating that, Lally??

Possibly the big guy himself, Michael Morrissey. Think there has been some chatter about this.

 

[ch_13]

I have a question about the alleged three point turn. In what scenario does this result in running over a passenger who just exited the car onto the footpath?

Was KR supposed to have backed into the driveway or over the footpath during the turn? I would usually make a three point turn on the road itself, certainly not over the footpath. Maybe into a driveway if the road was particularly narrow.

The three-point turn was the commonwealth's original theory of how John was hit. Matt McCabe told the police that he saw tire tracks in a V-shape, although on the stand he described them as a wave.

At some point the prosecution realized that there were two big problems with their theory: First, Karen never turned around; after stopping in front of 34 Fairview she continued driving in the same direction that her car was facing. Second, a three-point turn would occur at low speed and therefore never generate anywhere near the amount of force necessary to break the SUV's taillight.

The current prosecution theory is that she drove forward, then stopped and reversed into John at a high rate of speed (over 20 mph). Also, there's no footpath at that location. For Karen to hit John, he would have had to have been standing in the road for some reason.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I have a question about the alleged three point turn. In what scenario does this result in running over a passenger who just exited the car onto the footpath?

Was KR supposed to have backed into the driveway or over the footpath during the turn? I would usually make a three point turn on the road itself, certainly not over the footpath. Maybe into a driveway if the road was particularly narrow.

If by footpath you mean sidewalk (from the UK?) there isn't one at 34 Fairview.

The Commonwealth dropped their three-point turn allegations a number of month ago. Probably when their reconstructionist told them she'd never have been able to generate enough speed to kill anyone doing a three point turn. New theory is she backed into him on the road at 24 miles an hour. I doubt they'll have much luck with this one either.

 

[housewife]

This case is fascinating! If the Defense sucsessfully defend their client, this will be the next 'If the glove dont fit' case. I am not saying that the Defendant is or is not guilty, but the odds are hugely stacked against her due to extenuating circumstances.

But would you say the evidence is stacked against the defendant?

I am interested to learn how the LA Riots and the ensuing racial tension is related to John O'keefe's death.

 

[housewife]

The lack of receipts is pretty interesting. They didn't even try to count her drinks from the videos from McCarthys and the Waterfall. If they don't do this at some point, I'll tend to doubt she had the amount to drink they've tried to claim.

But even if she had 15 drinks, there is zero evidence John was hit by a car.

I'm sure they could get receipts, but KR can't be framed as an evil drunk if the receipts show everyone else had even larger quantities than she did that evening.

 

[Charlot123]

You see on page 20 I believe KR had 7 drinks at the one bar. I know one thing if I had that much to drink there is no way, I would be moving or up at 5 in the morning.

She shouldn’t bother about footprint if she is innocent, right? Also, a call to the family can always be explained away. The blizzard, obviously, wasn’t that bad for them to drive.

There may be old phones in the house working from a WiFi. I wonder if all devices were checked, btw, or if the router itself was for its connections.

But your remark made me think. Most people the defense paints as being responsible and complicit, are behaving like people uncaring about digital footprints. Or Google searches. They behave like innocent people. Most of all, Proctor. If he is part of the plot, why would he text such self-incriminating stuff on the phone, in texts?

BH is hiding something, but it is personal.

Why would Jen delete several empty calls to JO? I have only one explanation, exactly that, she or her friend were interested in JO coming, but she didn’t want them to see it, “prying eyes”!

I am beginning to wonder if JO wanted to go to BA’s house, and alone, because he already wanted to break free from K? And specifically this caused KR’s fury?

 

[Charlot123]

I'm sure they could get receipts, but KR can't be framed as an evil drunk if the receipts show everyone else had even larger quantities than she did that evening.

You are right. And, we don’t know how generous was the Waterfall with the alcohol contents of their drinks. There were restaurants in downtown Boston, in my time, where my acquaintances ordered cocktails with tequila on the side.

 

[waldojabba]

She shouldn’t bother about footprint if she is innocent, right? Also, a call to the family can always be explained away. The blizzard, obviously, wasn’t that bad for them to drive.

There may be old phones in the house working from a WiFi. I wonder if all devices were checked, btw, or if the router itself was for its connections.

But your remark made me think. Most people the defense paints as being responsible and complicit, are behaving like people uncaring about digital footprints. Or Google searches. They behave like innocent people. Most of all, Proctor. If he is part of the plot, why would he text such self-incriminating stuff on the phone, in texts?

BH is hiding something, but it is personal.

Why would Jen delete several empty calls to JO? I have only one explanation, exactly that, she or her friend were interested in JO coming, but she didn’t want them to see it, “prying eyes”!

I am beginning to wonder if JO wanted to go to BA’s house, and alone, because he already wanted to break free from K? And specifically this caused KR’s fury?

Why be so careless with your communications/digital footprint?
Because you have no worries, who is going to question you? LE?
You are LE. You control the narrative and the “evidence”. You are “connected”.
Rogue cops or just business as usual
in this neck of the woods ? Even the locals want an audit of the CPD operations.
Their carelessness is your tip off, not that they are innocent, but that they have always been immune to accountability.

Nobody dreamed that the fbi was going to look into things or that Karen R was going to lawyer up with high powered, savy and smart defense lawyers. They thought they had it covered.

Proctor texts to his high school buddies that he hoped she’d kill herself.
Absent that, I am sure he thought she would be advised by local counsel to take a plea.

Sometimes the ones who are supposed to be the good guys are the villains. The word for these people is not innocent it’s complicit.
JMO

Karen Read’s defense claims investigator hoped she’d ‘kill herself,’ searched her phone for ‘nude photos’ as trial opens over cop boyfriend’s death

Read’s legal team claim she is being set-up by an influential family who lived in the Canton home outside of which O’Keefe’s body was found, as part of an elaborate cover-up.

nypost.com

 

[Charlot123]

All RSBM

I respectfully do not share that belief.

I don't think that's how that works?

About IQ - maybe. I was basing on broad vocabulary and sense of humor, but you are right, there are too many components that you can’t measure on the stand.

About alcohol. Here are the symptoms of “alcohol use disorder”.

• Being unable to limit the amount of alcohol you drink
• Wanting to cut down on how much you drink or making unsuccessful attempts to do so
• Spending a lot of time drinking, getting alcohol or recovering from alcohol use
• Feeling a strong craving or urge to drink alcohol
• Failing to fulfill major obligations at work, school or home due to repeated alcohol use
• Continuing to drink alcohol even though you know it's causing physical, social, work or relationship problems
• Giving up or reducing social and work activities and hobbies to use alcohol
• Using alcohol in situations where it's not safe, such as when driving or swimming
• Developing a tolerance to alcohol so you need more to feel its effect or you have a reduced effect from the same amount
• Experiencing withdrawal symptoms — such as nausea, sweating and shaking — when you don't drink, or drinking to avoid these symptoms

For functional alcoholics, it is all the same, only they manage to perform their work, social or relationship obligations. Maybe some haven’t given up on hobbies yet. Few can probably avoid drinking when driving or swimming. So 5, 7 and for some, 8 are a “-“, the rest are “+”.

But what would you say about a family for whom everything on this list would be a strong minus? What is on their list is “these people, when they drink, consume alcohol in exorbitant amounts that I can’t even watch much less imbibe”?

We metabolize alcohol differently, the activity of alcohol dehydrogenase and aldehyde dehydrogenase in our bodies is different, it is well-known, genetically, we are wired very differently.

So the family I know is the one where everyone, including women, drinks in huge amounts, especially when alcohol is free. But - they have no cravings, don’t drink daily nor even weekly, are not dry drunks and mostly, don’t have any alcohol-driven behavior (when there is no alcohol around, no one drives out to buy it). I suspect their liver metabolizes alcohol seemingly effortlessly, making them happily tipsy. It is definitely a family trait as it clusters in one line. When I ask, “were there alcoholics in the family”, they say not at all, but their ancestors “tended to overdrink when alcohol was free.” So what is it? High activity of ADH and ALDH, and some other genetics. What I definitely don’t see in them is using alcohol for self-medication. I suspect that if unbridled it would turn into alcohol use disorder, only with time, they all drink less, not more.

 

[Charlot123]

Why be so careless with your communications/digital footprint?
Because you have no worries, who is going to question you? LE?
You are LE. You control the narrative and the “evidence”. You are “connected”.
Rogue cops or just business as usual
in this neck of the woods ? Even the locals want an audit of the CPD operations.
Their carelessness is your tip off, not that they are innocent, but that they have always been immune to accountability.

Nobody dreamed that the fbi was going to look into things or that Karen R was going to lawyer up with high powered, savy and smart defense lawyers. They thought they had it covered.

Proctor texts to his high school buddies that he hoped she’d kill herself.
Absent that, I am sure he thought she would be advised by local counsel to take a plea.

Sometimes the ones who are supposed to be the good guys are the villains. The word for these people is not innocent it’s complicit.
JMO

Karen Read’s defense claims investigator hoped she’d ‘kill herself,’ searched her phone for ‘nude photos’ as trial opens over cop boyfriend’s death

Read’s legal team claim she is being set-up by an influential family who lived in the Canton home outside of which O’Keefe’s body was found, as part of an elaborate cover-up.

nypost.com

Honestly? I am not the proponent of “thin blue line”, just trying to be practical (the famous anarchist armies ended up with own police, so much for police-less society).

Honestly, at this point in time, I can’t even define how wealthy Canton is. Per data, wealthier than my area, but it is hard to process or believe knowing that the biggest employer of Canton is Dunkin’ Donuts. My feeling is, just a blue collar one, no?

So, no sure how “influential family” fares in an 28K blue collar town? But, surely the cops had the chance to check KR’s income or connections when she moved in with JO?

Sometimes I wonder if this case is way more political than we think, and whom it really targets, but I am too far to hear any “local” news.

Anyhow, unprofessional behavior of people like Proctor should have consequences. So should witness intimidation of certain bloggers. By the same token, if we are investigating the connections between BA and MP, should the same be done about AK and KR?

 

[ch_13]

They did show video from there but I don't know if they showed every drink. But not really necessary since they also have her blood alcohol level.

According to the police there's video from CF McCarthy's where Karen ordered shot after shot and poured them into her glass.



We saw plenty of videotape from both bars and Lally spent question after question asking where everyone sat and what they talked about and everyone's mood. But we never saw any video like this. Why not? I have no idea. It would have been a slam-dunk for the prosecution and a better use of the jury's time.

And I disagree that BAC testing will be sufficient to show she was drunk. The tests were done well into the next day and some formula has to be used to back-calculate how drunk she was that night. The whole testing process and the computations will be hotly contested by the defense. Plus there's no way to know if she had anything more to drink after she returned to John's home. I suspect all the back-and-forth will make the jury's eyes glaze over. However, if they had seen her consuming those shots on video, then all the cross-examination would be moot. Seeing is believing and no juror would seriously doubt she was drunk that night.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I was referring to Higgins not putting his plow up after the sweep of the Alberts driveway that he said he did. Parked it after, plow still down, as he testified he heard it grate on the road as he pulled away when leaving the house for the night. Waiting on edge for the FBI to finally come out with all they do have on all of it and them. Data wise and whatever else, tho they are working on a bigger all over picture of Canton PD and some of the police there. They're all clearly horrible human beings.

I see what you were saying. Thanks for clarifying for me. I, too, am anxiously awaiting more info from the FBI on Canton PD.

 

[ch_13]

By the same token, if we are investigating the connections between BA and MP, should the same be done about AK and KR?

If Karen Read tampered with witnesses then she should be investigated and charged with that crime. However, no such charges have been filed to date and any allegations of tampering are not a part of the current trial. Most of the accusations of witness tampering / witness intimidation against Turtleboy stem from him showing up and protesting in front of peoples' homes and other locations. Karen wasn't at these events so I'm not clear what her involvement would have been.

For Karen to simply be communicating with Aiden Kearney and feeding him information about the case is not a crime, no matter how detestable a person he may be. The exception might be if she violated any court orders or provided him with documents that were filed under seal. As far as I know that did not occur, and certainly there are a lot of documents that have been kept secret until the trial.

 

[arielilane]

Good morning, y'all

It's my understanding that today is a full day -- yeah!

The rest of the week, court will be dark.

Possibly the Judge will consider Tuesday & Thursday being full days going forward. moo

Wow! What about BH's testimony thus far? BH will be back on the stand today.
Of course, we all know AJ will not be in court today, so DY will continue with cross.

 

[arielilane]

A bit about AJ (also includes info about DY) which most likely is already known by most. However, posting for those who are unaware of his history:

Alan Jackson: ‘Proudly relentless’​

A California lawyer who joined Read’s defense last September, Jackson often appears at-ease with the media attention her case has attracted, a skill likely honed over a career spent trying high-profile cases.

As a prosecutor in Los Angeles, he secured a murder conviction against music producer Phil Spector in 2009 and won a guilty verdict in the cold-case murdersof motorsports icon Mickey Thompson and his wife, Trudy.

After going into private practice following a failed bid for Los Angeles County district attorney in 2012, he represented disgraced Hollywood mogul Harvey Weinstein in his L.A. rape trial and actor Kevin Spacey in his Nantucket sexual assault case (prosecutors later dropped the Nantucket charges). Other big-name clients range from a Saudi prince to an NBA player.

In an email interview, Jackson said he became “intrigued” by Read’s case after initially speaking with her about obtaining cellphone data.

“Once I heard the full story of John’s death and saw some of the evidence, including the injuries on his right arm, I knew something was terribly wrong. I wanted to help,” Jackson said. “I got into this business to right wrongs and there was no way I was going to walk away from this case.”

Who is on Karen Read’s defense team?

The bicoastal defense team at the center of Karen Read's case is spearheaded by two heavy-hitting criminal defense attorneys.

www.boston.com