MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023

[Charlot123]

And were the searches all separately time stamped with your browser open?

I didn't check tbh. Every day I end up on QUORA, and I learn something new. I recently was trying to find good synonyms to "destiny" and ended up learning a lot about thalassemia major. But - since I am into true crime, some of my searches, like "is it possible to leave no DNA on the crime scene" would look very suspicious. (I think what would be an "alibi" is what case I was reading about before the searches, but sometimes it could be a movie).

 

[Charlot123]

Some think the Feds were already investigating the Canton Police because of the Sandra Birchmore matter at the time of O'Keefe's murder. Birchmore was a young woman who was raped through her teen years by neighboring Stoughton cops and allegedly killed herself shortly after she showed ultrasound pics to the cop who got her pregnant. She was most likely murdered by him but the Canton cops did a sloppy and incomplete investigation.

Do we know the names of the Canton cops investigating the case?

 

[ch_13]

I didn't check tbh. Every day I end up on QUORA, and I learn something new. I recently was trying to find good synonyms to "destiny" and ended up learning a lot about thalassemia major. But - since I am into true crime, some of my searches, like "is it possible to leave no DNA on the crime scene" would look very suspicious. (I think what would be an "alibi" is what case I was reading about before the searches, but sometimes it could be a movie).

I think the real issue here is that JM claims she never searched the phrase during the party, and only did it the next morning at Karen's request.

Instead, she might have claimed that the whole thing was a terrible coincidence. E.g., it had been a subject of discussion during the party and she googled the phrase to settle the argument. Maybe some people wouldn't have believed her, but it would have been impossible to disprove if the other guests backed her up.

Since she's claiming the search never happened at 2:30 AM, it's now a technical argument: What do the phone internals show?

 

[LvsAMystry]

Do we know the names of the Canton cops investigating the case?

https://www.thecasepodcast.com

here is a podcast relating to the Birchmore matter and there is also a thread here on WS

 

[Barbaro]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/10/us/john-okeefe-boston-police-death-cec/index.html

In the pre-dawn hours of January 29, 2022, a man was found dead in a blizzard outside a house in suburban Boston. He was wearing two shirts, blue jeans, socks and one black Nike sneaker. On the blanket of snow near his body were shards of glass and splotches of blood.

<modsnip - snipped for 10% copyright rule. More at link>

 

[Charlot123]

https://www.thecasepodcast.com

here is a podcast relating to the Birchmore matter and there is also a thread here on WS

Yes, I read, thank you. Horrible story.

 

[SMK777]

I think the real issue here is that JM claims she never searched the phrase during the party, and only did it the next morning at Karen's request.

Instead, she might have claimed that the whole thing was a terrible coincidence. E.g., it had been a subject of discussion during the party and she googled the phrase to settle the argument. Maybe some people wouldn't have believed her, but it would have been impossible to disprove if the other guests backed her up.

Since she's claiming the search never happened at 2:30 AM, it's now a technical argument: What do the phone internals show?

And we assume that at some point, the phone internal data can definitively show if the search was made at 2:30 AM or 6:25 AM. Is this correct?

 

[SMK777]

I came to this case late, but I was initially very persuaded by the defense theory of a coverup by parties inside the house, especially because of their selling the property and rehoming the dog shortly after the death— in addition to the Google search question.

However, damage to KR’s taillight, taken together with the fact that she’d consumed 9 drinks that night, asked her friends, “did I hit him?”, and appeared to know already that he was lying in the snow when the 2 other women were unable to see him, throws all into confusion.

And then the idea that McCabe is part of the coverup, as the defense asserts.

Coverups do occur. Not all such claims are wild conspiracy theories. I can think of a case I recently read a book about, where there actually was a coverup and the defendants were vindicated. There have been coverups certainly which involved police, prosecutors, and judges. It’s not outside the realm of possibility.

Also, is it a certainty that the victim never entered the house that night?

I would truly have a very difficult time deciding this case if I were on the jury.

It really will come down to experts and forensic facts, providing they’re able to reach a consensus at all.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I came to this case late, but I was initially very persuaded by the defense theory of a coverup by parties inside the house, especially because of their selling the property and rehoming the dog shortly after the death— in addition to the Google search question.

However, damage to KR’s taillight, taken together with the fact that she’d consumed 9 drinks that night, asked her friends, “did I hit him?”, and appeared to know already that he was lying in the snow when the 2 other women were unable to see him, throws all into confusion.

And then the idea that McCabe is part of the coverup, as the defense asserts.

Coverups do occur. Not all such claims are wild conspiracy theories. I can think of a case I recently read a book about, where there actually was a coverup and the defendants were vindicated. There have been coverups certainly which involved police, prosecutors, and judges. It’s not outside the realm of possibility.

Also, is it a certainty that the victim never entered the house that night?

I would truly have a very difficult time deciding this case if I were on the jury.

It really will come down to experts and forensic facts, providing they’re able to reach a consensus at all.

The jury is going to have a lot more info than we do now.

As to the taillight, have you seen the video of Karen bumping John's car in their driveway at 5 am? When she drives away, it looks just like the other taillight. This was 4.5 hours after she allegedly left 35 pieces of taillight at the scene of the crime. The state police officer involved with towing Read's car from her parents driveway also lied about the time he had access to her vehicle. This is the same officer who claimed he didn't know the Albert family but there is ample online evidence that they were quite friendly before this happened. At a minimum, he was clearly conflicted, but never advised his superiors of his relationship.

I don't think the data here will end up being as important as the biomechanical experts. I can't even imagine how a prosecution expert will begin to explain the bizarre injuries the victim sustained. How did a vehicle cause all those lacerations up and down one of his arms? What - simultaneously - caused the small but very deep would at the back of his skull? Why did he have bruising on the back of both hands?

 

[SMK777]

The jury is going to have a lot more info than we do now.

As to the taillight, have you seen the video of Karen bumping John's car in their driveway at 5 am? When she drives away, it looks just like the other taillight. This was 4.5 hours after she allegedly left 35 pieces of taillight at the scene of the crime. The state police officer involved with towing Read's car from her parents driveway also lied about the time he had access to her vehicle. This is the same officer who claimed he didn't know the Albert family but there is ample online evidence that they were quite friendly before this happened. At a minimum, he was clearly conflicted, but never advised his superiors of his relationship.

I don't think the data here will end up being as important as the biomechanical experts. I can't even imagine how a prosecution expert will begin to explain the bizarre injuries the victim sustained. How did a vehicle cause all those lacerations up and down one of his arms? What - simultaneously - caused the small but very deep would at the back of his skull? Why did he have bruising on the back of both hands?

Yes, true.

The lacerations on his arm are obviously not from getting knocked over by a backing vehicle. To me, that seems blatantly obvious to anyone with common sense.

I guess this is why the FBI became involved, and I hope that means that the full, objective truth will come out.

 

[waldojabba]

I have followed this case locally from the start on these pages and elsewhere.
What is not in question to me ?
That most if not all of these people involved that night were pretty drunk(if not blackout drunk) and that seemingly one bad decision, that of continuing the party back at the house, somehow led to
a lot more bad decisions.
I think the only hope anyone has of actually getting to the bottom of how this man died out in the cold that night, is the investigation by the FBI.
Absent a finding from the FBI, IMO there is a lot that does not add up concerning the prosecution’s case against Karen.
There is way too much reasonable doubt in my mind and if I were a juror I would definitely vote not guilty based upon what I know to date
JMO

 

[SMK777]

I have followed this case locally from the start on these pages and elsewhere.
What is not in question to me ?
That most if not all of these people involved that night were pretty drunk(if not blackout drunk) and that seemingly one bad decision, that of continuing the party back at the house, somehow led to
a lot more bad decisions.
I think the only hope anyone has of actually getting to the bottom of how this man died out in the cold that night, is the investigation by the FBI.
Absent a finding from the FBI, IMO there is a lot that does not add up concerning the prosecution’s case against Karen.
There is way too much reasonable doubt in my mind and if I were a juror I would definitely vote not guilty based upon what I know to date
JMO

Agree with all. Everyone under the influence makes for muddy memories; reminds me of the Amanda Knox case where she and her bf were too high to remember details.

And absolutely, there is a huge margin of reasonable doubt, more so than in any case I remember.

The lacerations on the victim’s arm and some of his other injuries; the fact that the house was sold and the dog re-homed are jarring as well.

 

[HarmonyE.]

The lacerations on the victim’s arm and some of his other injuries; the fact that the house was sold and the dog re-homed are jarring as well.

The arm lacerations I'll never understand, but the house wasn't sold until more than 14 months after O'Keefe died. Brian Albert and his family moved into a condo once it was sold, and the story is the dog - who didn't like strangers or other dogs - needed to be re-homed because a condo wasn't a good fit for the dog. Plausible, although I haven't seen confirmation of when she left the family.

 

[SMK777]

The arm lacerations I'll never understand, but the house wasn't sold until more than 14 months after O'Keefe died. Brian Albert and his family moved into a condo once it was sold, and the story is the dog - who didn't like strangers or other dogs - needed to be re-homed because a condo wasn't a good fit for the dog. Plausible, although I haven't seen confirmation of when she left the family.

That does clarify things, definitely.
Thank you.
[on the other hand: it does take time to sell a home, and people do keep dogs in condos, regardless of issues. So although these factors are far less suspicious than at first blush, they still are possibly significant]

 

[detectorhector]

I haven’t seen talk of dna. Was dna taken of the vehicle, the body, the house? I can’t imagine it wouldn’t have been. Or will they just not talk about it until trial? It seems O’Keefe’s dna would have to be either inside the house or on the vehicle. And if a dog did that to his arm, there would dog dna in the wounds. Also, his body was 12 feet from the street? Were there drag marks/blood trail? Did they find his missing shoe?

 

[HarmonyE.]

I haven’t seen talk of dna. Was dna taken of the vehicle, the body, the house? I can’t imagine it wouldn’t have been. Or will they just not talk about it until trial? It seems O’Keefe’s dna would have to be either inside the house or on the vehicle. And if a dog did that to his arm, there would dog dna in the wounds. Also, his body was 12 feet from the street? Were there drag marks/blood trail? Did they find his missing shoe?

The police never entered the house. I don't know about you, but if a Boston cop was found dead on my lawn, I'd expect a pounding on my door as soon as the police arrived at the scene.

Tissue samples of the victim's arm were never taken, so we have no idea about canine DNA.

Yes, he was found 12 feet from the street, and there is no sidewalk. The state originally claimed she knocked him onto the lawn during a three point turn, but now they claim she backed into him at a fairly high speed, knocking him sideways instead of backwards, as one might expect. There were no tire tracks found on the lawn.

There was no blood trail, although it had been snowing. There was also very little blood found. The cops borrowed red Solo cups from someone in the neighborhood (can't imagine that's normal protocol) and scooped up the little bloody snow they could find.

His missing shoe was found 12 hours later by the State police. I don't have any more info on that or when/where his missing hat was found.

 

[SMK777]

I haven’t seen talk of dna. Was dna taken of the vehicle, the body, the house? I can’t imagine it wouldn’t have been. Or will they just not talk about it until trial? It seems O’Keefe’s dna would have to be either inside the house or on the vehicle. And if a dog did that to his arm, there would dog dna in the wounds. Also, his body was 12 feet from the street? Were there drag marks/blood trail? Did they find his missing shoe?

You raise some good observations and questions about DNA.

 

[SMK777]

The police never entered the house. I don't know about you, but if a Boston cop was found dead on my lawn, I'd expect a pounding on my door as soon as the police arrived at the scene.

Good point. How could they have failed in this department?

 

[SMK777]

Tissue samples of the victim's arm were never taken, so we have no idea about canine DNA.

Very bad. Negligence or deliberate disregard.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Very bad. Negligence or deliberate disregard.

Now we will never know.