MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023

[SMK777]

Now we will never know.

Do you think experts can determine if the lacerations came from a dog by doing a forensic analysis of the photos? It’s a very important part of the defense argument.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Do you think experts can determine if the lacerations came from a dog by doing a forensic analysis of the photos? It’s a very important part of the defense argument.

I think that a defense team can get an expert to testify to anything if the price is right. They can just search for that expert until they find them.

 

[SMK777]

I think that a defense team can get an expert to testify to anything if the price is right. They can just search for that expert until they find them.

Ok, so long as it’s valid stuff that can’t just be debunked by the state. And persuasive to the jury.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Ok, so long as it’s valid stuff that can’t just be debunked by the state. And persuasive to the jury.

I don't think it necessarily has to be debunked. Sometimes in a trial, the defense experts and prosecution experts can be saying diametrically different things. One isn't debunking the other. It's up to the jury to decide which expert's opinion they put more stock in. JMO.

 

[louvillian08]

And we assume that at some point, the phone internal data can definitively show if the search was made at 2:30 AM or 6:25 AM. Is this correct?

Even right now I feel like the expert testimony is pretty telling. The prosecution has their story but even their expert could not explain why that would affect only ONE search in her history. Every other search is correctly catalogued. They also try and argue that because another search was made at the same time, that shows the timestamp for hos long to die in the cold must be wrong. You can definitely google multiple things in one minute.

The defense used multiple methods. Cellebrite data, "low level analysis" of WAL files, Cocoa apple software, etc. What the Cocoa data shows is what time the webpage was closed... Obviously, the search has to occur before you can close the webpage. So if Cocoa data shows the webpage was exited at 2:27am, it had to have been googled before that. Potentially just mere seconds before but definitely not 4 hours later.

Feels like the prosecution has backed themselves into a corner with this.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Do you think experts can determine if the lacerations came from a dog by doing a forensic analysis of the photos? It’s a very important part of the defense argument.

It's the state's burden to prove Karen's vehicle caused those injuries. I'm not sure how they do that.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Even right now I feel like the expert testimony is pretty telling. The prosecution has their story but even their expert could not explain why that would affect only ONE search in her history. Every other search is correctly catalogued. They also try and argue that because another search was made at the same time, that shows the timestamp for hos long to die in the cold must be wrong. You can definitely google multiple things in one minute.

The defense used multiple methods. Cellebrite data, "low level analysis" of WAL files, Cocoa apple software, etc. What the Cocoa data shows is what time the webpage was closed... Obviously, the search has to occur before you can close the webpage. So if Cocoa data shows the webpage was exited at 2:27am, it had to have been googled before that. Potentially just mere seconds before but definitely not 4 hours later.

Feels like the prosecution has backed themselves into a corner with this.

It shows the webpage was exited at 2:27 am. Does any of this data show when it was opened up again? I'm ignorant on this topic, but I can't imagine she closed Google and never opened it again.

 

[SMK777]

I don't think it necessarily has to be debunked. Sometimes in a trial, the defense experts and prosecution experts can be saying diametrically different things. One isn't debunking the other. It's up to the jury to decide which expert's opinion they put more stock in. JMO.

True. But I just can’t see how a vehicle backing up and knocking you down would make those. You wonder how a state expert witness could even say that.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

True. But I just can’t see how a vehicle backing up and knocking you down would make those. You wonder how a state expert witness could even say that.

I agree with you. I think it was the dog but that is JMO

 

[cocomod]

The jury is going to have a lot more info than we do now.

As to the taillight, have you seen the video of Karen bumping John's car in their driveway at 5 am? When she drives away, it looks just like the other taillight. This was 4.5 hours after she allegedly left 35 pieces of taillight at the scene of the crime. The state police officer involved with towing Read's car from her parents driveway also lied about the time he had access to her vehicle. This is the same officer who claimed he didn't know the Albert family but there is ample online evidence that they were quite friendly before this happened. At a minimum, he was clearly conflicted, but never advised his superiors of his relationship.

I don't think the data here will end up being as important as the biomechanical experts. I can't even imagine how a prosecution expert will begin to explain the bizarre injuries the victim sustained. How did a vehicle cause all those lacerations up and down one of his arms? What - simultaneously - caused the small but very deep would at the back of his skull? Why did he have bruising on the back of both hands?

Excellent information - also, how are is the prosecution going to explain the distance he flew from the road?

 

[louvillian08]

It shows the webpage was exited at 2:27 am. Does any of this data show when it was opened up again? I'm ignorant on this topic, but I can't imagine she closed Google and never opened it again.

they start discussing the phone data around 25:50. It's my understanding that they can tell specifically the internet tab that contained the google search about how long to die in the cold was closed at 2:27am. If she googled something later that night or even in the morning, Cocoa would log that as a completely separate thing. Cocoa data seems more mechanical than search history if that makes sense? Like it records when the phone is unlocked, camera is used, etc. So it logged the closing of the page and her accessing the page about the Ozark basketball team because once she exited the tab about dying in the cold, the next tab she had open automatically popped up.

 

[ch_13]

The police never entered the house. I don't know about you, but if a Boston cop was found dead on my lawn, I'd expect a pounding on my door as soon as the police arrived at the scene.

Equally strange is that the homeowner never came outside. If there was a dead body and a bunch of cops on your lawn, wouldn't you step outside if only to see if there's anything you could do or questions you could answer? Maybe just offer the cops some coffee in the freezing cold weather.

It's not any kind of proof, but I find their behavior very puzzling.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Equally strange is that the homeowner never came outside. If there was a dead body and a bunch of cops on your lawn, wouldn't you step outside if only to see if there's anything you could do or questions you could answer? Maybe just offer the cops some coffee in the freezing cold weather.

It's not any kind of proof, but I find their behavior very puzzling.

Agree. Clearly the Alberts didn't wish to get involved, even though they'd spent much of the evening with the victim and as the crow flies he was lying not far from their master bedroom.

Makes no sense at all.

 

[SMK777]

Equally strange is that the homeowner never came outside. If there was a dead body and a bunch of cops on your lawn, wouldn't you step outside if only to see if there's anything you could do or questions you could answer? Maybe just offer the cops some coffee in the freezing cold weather.

It's not any kind of proof, but I find their behavior very puzzling.

It’s definitely not normal, and therefore raises suspicion.
And this was not just a dead guy on the lawn: He had been to their party, or had been invited. They’d spent the evening with him.

 

[HarmonyE.]

It’s definitely not normal, and therefore raises suspicion.
And this was not just a dead guy on the lawn: He had been to their party, or had been invited. They’d spent the evening with him.

And he was a fellow Boston cop. I thought they were a brotherhood.

 

[SMK777]

And he was a fellow Boston cop. I thought they were a brotherhood.

Yes, very strange that they would not want to come out of the house and ask and answer questions with something like that going on right outside on their lawn, involving a fellow officer and friend. And that police would not go inside for an interview.

The defense should stress this to the jury, because it’s extremely difficult to explain away. And makes it seem there was a decision made to only focus on KR and to leave them completely out of it.

 

[arielilane]

A woman accused of murdering her police officer boyfriend wants a new investigation into his death, her attorney has told Newsweek.

Karen Read claims she rushed to help her boyfriend, John O'Keefe, whose body was found in the snow outside a Canton, Massachusetts, house on January 29, 2022.

Prosecutors claim the couple argued and that she ran him over with her SUV after they visited two bars. The case has sharply divided Canton, about 15 miles southwest of Boston, with campaigns for and against Read, who is due to go on trial next year.

Her supporters say O'Keefe got into a fight with another man and stumbled out of a house and onto the snow.

...

Woman accused of murdering police officer boyfriend hopes for new probe

Karen Read is accused of driving her SUV into her boyfriend after an argument.

www.newsweek.com

Dec 12, 2023 at 10:56 AM EST

 

[Barbaro]

I find the behavior of the accused odd. I do not think I would be rounding up my friends to take with me on a search for my missing husband in the middle of a blinding snowstorm.

 

[cocomod]

I find the behavior of the accused odd. I do not think I would be rounding up my friends to take with me on a search for my missing husband in the middle of a blinding snowstorm.

Does this constitute guilt though? Could you honestly find her guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?

 

[LvsAMystry]

Agree with all. Everyone under the influence makes for muddy memories; reminds me of the Amanda Knox case where she and her bf were too high to remember details.

And absolutely, there is a huge margin of reasonable doubt, more so than in any case I remember.

The lacerations on the victim’s arm and some of his other injuries; the fact that the house was sold and the dog re-homed are jarring as well.

Don’t forget also that the entire basement flooring was ripped and replaced as well. I’m in agreement that I don‘t know what to think of all this except one thing that’s certain is uncertainty.