MA MA - Rapheal Teken, 37, Eric Weissman, 31, & Brandon Mess, 25, Waltham, 12 Sept 2011

  • #301
Thanks for answering all these questions Mizunderstood,but you missed one ;)
Are you aware if TT was dealing or running stuff or something along those lines as well?

TBH I am not sure. He very well could have been. I know he smoked on occasion but maybe he was involved in some really low level dealing just to make a couple bucks here and there. I couldn't say for certain.
 
  • #302
Well, if TT smoked pot, then he wasn't as devout a Muslim as he portrayed himself to be. And likely wasn't upset at DT using pot (despite what's being reported).
 
  • #303
Maybe at that point TT was in touch with the Chechen contacts and they told him if he's planning to join them he needs to prove to them that he's done with his pot smoking lifestyle and hanging around his jewish and american infidel friends,maybe DT and IT were part of this also.So what better way to prove that then to slash their throats and leave all the drugs and money behind on September 11th,out of all dates?
 
  • #304
"The woman said Tsarnaev, who was born and lived his early years in former Soviet republics, had told Mess in the weeks before the killings that the FBI had placed him on a terrorist watch list.

...When she finally reached the apartment and opened the door, she said she was shaken by the grisly scene. Lying in the entry room was Weissman's body. She discovered Teken's in the kitchen, then Mess's in the bedroom. Furniture throughout the apartment had been toppled, she said.

...The woman said she never understood what the motive for the killings could have been, other than perhaps a robbery. Although about $5,000 remained in the apartment after the slayings, she said, she was aware that Mess and Weissman had a much larger amount of cash. She could not estimate how much.

...The woman took strong excep*tion to friends of the victims who initially had considered her a suspect in the killings and reiterated their suspicions in Friday's Globe. The friends said, for instance, that she held radical Muslim beliefs and spoke with Tsarnaev of their distaste for American culture.

“To be honest, I am not a practicing Muslim,'' she said. “I don't pray much. I don't cover up. I drink. Tam would look at me and say, 'You're not doing the things Muslim women do.' To me, religion is about how you treat people.''

Some other friends of the victims questioned why Mess's girlfriend, an African immigrant whose family lived in a mid-Atlantic state, left the *Boston area a week after the slayings."

http://www.telegram.com/article/20130525/NEWS/130529757/1116
 
  • #305
"But there is no question about Tsarnaev’s ties to Mess, who had recently moved to Waltham from Cambridge at the urging of Mess’s girlfriend, Hibatalla Eltilib, according to friends and relatives of the victims who spoke with the Globe. Mess and Tsaernaev had grown close as neighbors near Inman Square, sharing a love of fighting, as well as hip-hop music.

Newly named Middlesex District Attorney Marian Ryan on Thursday said she would have no comment on any aspect of the investigation. But friends and relatives of the victims, in hindsight, said police should have examined the relationship between Eltilib, a native of *Sudan, and Tsarnaev.

Although friends knew *Tsarnaev to be Muslim, they did not consider him to be an *extremist.

Eltilib, by contrast, was outspoken about her Islamic beliefs and disdain for many American values, friends said.

...Eltilib has since returned to Sudan. Repeated attempts to reach her in recent weeks were unsuccessful. It is unclear when she left the Greater Boston *area, but her departure mirrors those of Tsarnaev and Todashev, each of whom also left the area following the triple homicide. Tsarnaev visited *Russia for six months last year, and Todashev moved to Florida."

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...le-homicide/ho0xNuDSCGdQsRNZI30QHK/story.html
 
  • #306
I saw in another article that she left the country completely.
 
  • #307
  • #308
Didn't TT's mother say she paid the rent on the apt while he was in Russia? I thought maybe his wife was living with her parents during that time. Or the wife could have been living with TT's mother, since she didn't go to Russia until later.

The landlady actually said the rent check came from the mother even after she moved back to Dagestan.
 
  • #309
TBH I am not sure. He very well could have been. I know he smoked on occasion but maybe he was involved in some really low level dealing just to make a couple bucks here and there. I couldn't say for certain.
IMO, this was a very smooth running reasonaly profit enterprise. Its not like they were in second hand clothes and riding around in Pintos!

I would not be surprised if we find out landlowrd in Houston, with long haul trucker roomate might not be in some sort of arrangement.!!
 
  • #310
This case seems to be quieting down, but I've reading about it and have so many questions!

(Warning: graphic details ahead )


Okay, I'm sorry to quote these details, they are horrifying. But:

* CNN article (BBM) Did investigators report this at the time? The recent descriptions seem a lot more violent and graphic than the early reports of the victims 'stab wounds' or 'injuries to the neck'!

It looks like the day of the murder LE said (unofficially) the men were stabbed to death. A reporter, Michele McFee, added that she was told by an unnamed investigator that they may have been stabbed with a knife or an ice pick. When the COD from the autopsy was revealed to be "sharp force injuries to the neck", LE was asked whether this meant the victims throats were slit, but according to this report, declined to comment or confirm anything about the COD, the time of death, or the motive. (Except, of these three things, they did comment on motive. Before the men were even identified, they said it was a targeted, drug related crime). link

* ABC article: The men were 'nearly decapitated' and the murder was 'right out of an Al Qaeda training video'? This a pretty big new detail, isn't it? They may have been rumors about this in 2011 (remember that Daniel Pearl comment?) but I didn't even see it alluded to anywhere else.

Note who wrote the article: Michele McFee, the same person who said LE told her about the 'ice pick' detail in 2011. So, did LE tell her this then too, but it was kept quiet -- or, is this just another case of media sensationalism? I hope no one would make up a quote like that, but I am a little skeptical of the media, given the reporting we've seen in last few weeks.

If it's true, wouldn't that suggest that investigators suspected that this was about more than a marijuana deal? And wouldn't this be a clue as to potential suspects, since they believed the assailant(s) were known to the victims? Hmm, who should be questioned about a murder that looks like its right out of an Al Qaeda training video? Is it the jealous ex-girlfriend who threw things at B.M.? The teenage pot dealer who lives next door? Or the former best friend who was already on the FBI's radar for suspected links to Islamic extremist terrorist groups in Chechnya (incidentally, the very people who first brought beheadings to the world's attention by videotaping the violent murders of hostages). TT is the only one of these 3 that was not mentioned in the media, though people now say he acted suspiciously too. The DA seems to be suggesting that this is a "new lead". Was TT a suspect in 2011? I wish someone would ask them directly.

Finally, If they really did believe this was just about drugs, what's with the weirdness over the date? Every single article lists the date the bodies were found, Sept. 12. There are obituaries, memorials and at least one gravestone that mark the date of death as Sept. 11, but even now, no one is willing to say this on the record.

All of this makes me wonder: What if, in 2011, this crime had been reported as Three men nearly beheaded on September 11th, and the profiles of the victims had talked more about their lives (including the fact that two of them were Jewish) and less about their criminal records? Is any of this relevant? Who knows. But instead, it was 3 drug dealers, stabbed in the neck, (found on) Sept. 12th. And not surprisingly, it looks like it faded from the news within a week and became a cold case.

TL;DR.? I have no idea how this got to be so long, I only had one small point when I started writing :) -- sorry!!
Oh , i think in the context of the last 6 weeks the date 9-11 very vital. I think it was a celebrate 9- 11 party that got out of hand because of religous arguement on that night.
 
  • #311
IMO, this was a very smooth running reasonaly profit enterprise. Its not like they were in second hand clothes and riding around in Pintos!

I would not be surprised if we find out landlowrd in Houston, with long haul trucker roomate might not be in some sort of arrangement.!!

The landlord in Houston, RGS, is listed as the "director" (not a physician?) of the V Diagnostic Clinic Inc. <modsnip> This clinic is registered as a primary care clinic <modsnip>. I can't find much else about it. Would've been convenient if they handled medical marijuana (!), but it's not legal in Texas yet. Maybe landlord is an innocent bystander.
 
  • #312
http://watertown.patch.com/articles...urders-former-watertown-resident-tied-to-case
Here it says she's in Virginia.What she says about her belief differs greatly from what friends said about her.Mizunderstood,have you known her to be against American values?

Yea the 2 articles are really conflicting.

However my personal experience with here is she was pretty average girl. She didn't have any particular views on politics from what I remember. I mean how radical a Muslim could she be if she had an American boyfriend that sold pot? she didn't cover up and was known to drink.
I think the accounts by friends and the first Globe article was far reaching. It seems like they regretted what they wrote and backtracked in the second article.

As for her leaving the state, she wasn't from MA so i don't think there's any weirdness about her leaving after finding her boyfriend murdered in their apartment, I would leave too. These other guys were from MA, so them leaving is a little unusual.

I tried to reach her but couldn't, another friend thinks shes doing charity work in Africa.
 
  • #313
yes,ITA how radical can she be with an american boyfriend dealing pot? Why do you think the media reported all that stuff about her being an extreme Muslim almost like she was conspiring with TT,personally I don't even believe the friends said anything about her being against America,just sensationalism ?
 
  • #314
It was definitely insinuating that she was conspiring with TT but all without any real sources or evidence. Pure sensationalism. Whats the point of this story anyway? it didnt bring any new information to light..
 
  • #315
I agree. They're really stretching with the gf, and it's terribly unfair since there's virtually nothing to tie her into the murders. Grasping at straws, imo.

Friends say TT's demeanor changed after the murders. I've read that in several articles. Was the change noted back then? Did people say, "Hey, what's up with Tam?" Was a connection made to BM's death in any way? For instance, did people think he was grieving, maybe? Was anyone suspicious? Or is it an observation made now in hindsight?

Any insight on that, MizU?
 
  • #316
The landlord in Houston, RGS, is listed as the "director" (not a physician?) of the V Diagnostic Clinic Inc. <modsnip> This clinic is registered as a primary care clinic <modsnip>. I can't find much else about it. Would've been convenient if they handled medical marijuana (!), but it's not legal in Texas yet. Maybe landlord is an innocent bystander.

Welcome, BlackHorse. I think you've hit the nail on the head. Innocent bystander. ;)
 
  • #317
I agree. They're really stretching with the gf, and it's terribly unfair since there's virtually nothing to tie her into the murders. Grasping at straws, imo.

Friends say TT's demeanor changed after the murders. I've read that in several articles. Was the change noted back then? Did people say, "Hey, what's up with Tam?" Was a connection made to BM's death in any way? For instance, did people think he was grieving, maybe? Was anyone suspicious? Or is it an observation made now in hindsight?

Any insight on that, MizU?

I read the same thing. TT was just always kinda quiet and kept to himself within the group. He liked to be around but he wouldn't say much.
I think everyone questioned everyone for a time there, it was just so suspicious and such confusing circumstances.
I had a couple conversations one on one with a few friends of mine and they mentioned Tam but then it was dismissed.
Even now a few people don't think he had anything to do with it.. We still don't have any real evidence. Its all speculation.

So to answer your question I think only in hindsight..JMO
 
  • #318
Yea the 2 articles are really conflicting.

However my personal experience with here is she was pretty average girl. She didn't have any particular views on politics from what I remember. I mean how radical a Muslim could she be if she had an American boyfriend that sold pot? she didn't cover up and was known to drink.
I think the accounts by friends and the first Globe article was far reaching. It seems like they regretted what they wrote and backtracked in the second article.

As for her leaving the state, she wasn't from MA so i don't think there's any weirdness about her leaving after finding her boyfriend murdered in their apartment, I would leave too. These other guys were from MA, so them leaving is a little unusual.I tried to reach her but couldn't, another friend thinks shes doing charity work in Africa.

That's what it sounded like to me. She hardly sounds like a 'radical'. It seems the only thing her and TT had in common was that they were both Muslim (and they share that with almost a quarter of the world's population). And, of course, their friendship with BM. The girlfriend wasn't even in town when this happened, and although people have brought up the fact that she and BM sometimes got into heated arguments, I can't really imagine a scenario where this would translate into any kind of collaboration with Tsarnaev and Todoshev in the triple-murder of not only her boyfriend but his two friends.

Also, the part about why she left town was cut out of one of the quotes above, so I wanted to include it. I would probably want to go home too if I had discovered a horrific murder scene and people were accusing me of being involved.

The woman took strong exception to friends of the victims who initially had considered her a suspect in the killings and reiterated their suspicions in Friday's Globe. The friends said, for instance, that she held radical Muslim beliefs and spoke with Tsarnaev of their distaste for American culture.

&#8220;To be honest, I am not a practicing Muslim,'' she said. &#8220;I don't pray much. I don't cover up. I drink. Tam would look at me and say, 'You're not doing the things Muslim women do.' To me, religion is about how you treat people.''

Some other friends of the victims questioned why Mess's girlfriend, an African immigrant whose family lived in a mid-Atlantic state, left the *Boston area a week after the slayings.

&#8220;After what happened, I was completely shocked and traumatized,'' she said Friday. &#8220;I needed to be with my family.''

She said she suffers symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder, which have been exacerbated by the suspicions about her.
http://www.telegram.com/article/20130525/NEWS/130529757/1116
 
  • #319
I read the same thing. TT was just always kinda quiet and kept to himself within the group. He liked to be around but he wouldn't say much.
I think everyone questioned everyone for a time there, it was just so suspicious and such confusing circumstances.
I had a couple conversations one on one with a few friends of mine and they mentioned Tam but then it was dismissed.
Even now a few people don't think he had anything to do with it.. We still don't have any real evidence. Its all speculation.

So to answer your question I think only in hindsight..JMO
I started this way, and when I heard maybe triple -- I was like he lost it a lot earlier (?) than others!
 
  • #320
Me either - bunch f hogwash well hear truth in about 7 years
 

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