MA MA - Rapheal Teken, 37, Eric Weissman, 31, & Brandon Mess, 25, Waltham, 12 Sept 2011

  • #321
:scared:
Me either - bunch f hogwash well hear truth in about 7 years

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/scared.gif

I hope not! there's so much controversy surrounding this whole thing. TBH I think the real issues are being muddled here. It was either money or some kind of signal, or probably both. Maybe he thought sprinkling the weed on them would have the cops dismiss the case, which they did, or at least it stumped investigators (sounds like a dave chappelle special) ntill time fro his horrific plans. Maybe no one took him seriously, and he was so desperate for attention he took matters into his own hands.

claudicici i kind of agree with you that its possible TT was trying to prove himself. I read this article and did some research.

http://www.thepiratescove.us/2013/05/01/saudi-arabia-warned-us-about-tamerlan-tsarnaev/

In another article they said the Saudi Gov called him "the volunteer"

2 things I want to point out:

a/ if he committed the murders then wanted to go to mecca to cleanse himself of sin, but was denied entry? because SG didnt want him and his brand of "whatever"

b/ When denied he became so angry and went to Chechnya to meet with other vigilantes for training. came back to Boston and involved his brother into the whole mess. Did not care about the murders being discovered or his Orlando friend IT, because he planned to die anyway.

Just a theory?
 
  • #322
wow,I'm stunned....I had no idea Saudi warned us against TT as well....I wonder what information they had on him? Your theory makes a lot of sense !!!
Reading about how great of friends TT and BM really were and how BM really cared about TT makes me so upset.I always figured it was more like a "business" relationship.
That makes it even a lot harder to understand.
 
  • #323
Should have been:

The specifics around procedures for detaining an enemy combatant in the U.S. we recently made clear by the president's top counterterrorism adviser, John Brennan in an interview discussing the attempted attack on the Northwest airline in December, 2009. Brennan confirmed that the FBI protocol for handling terror suspects is to (1) detain suspect, (2) bring in high-level interrogators to question the suspect for intelligence purposes and (3) read suspect Miranda rights.


This idea was formalized as "enemy combatant" logic by the Bush administration whereby those accused of terrorist activities or connections lose all rights to due process and the ability to challenge the accusation. The courts definitively rejected this proposal

http://career.myonlinecriminaljusticedegree.com/2010/02/what-is-fbi-due-process-for-suspected.asp


Others, knowing the technology that has been utilized in our countries to seek out terrorists, aren't so sure they want that type of monitoring in the USA. Yes, they are protecting our independence from the terrorists, but who is protecting our personal independence from the government?

The massive database of suspected individuals and inventory of eye scans has resulted in suspects being dealt with quickly and efficiently. With this technology, they can identify a suspected terrorist and shoot them immediately. There is no need for conversation, detainment, or to put the solider in harms way. If that sounds scary to you, that's because it is. Can you imagine this type of technology in the USA?

What started as a means of protection has evolved into an enterprise, where fear fuels the industry. It remains to be seen whether the fight against terrorism will give the government a legitimate reason to expand on domestic surveillance to the point where we all feel we are under a microscope.

http://career.myonlinecriminaljusticedegree.com/2009/11/how-far-can-homeland-security-take.asp



ME: We have more than enough FACTS that the system is problematic. In this day and age, and in this case, we have seen leaks to the media. The notion that we have not heard conclusively that the 8 hour interrogation was not taped is concerning.

DNA exonerations have proven that the problem is more widespread than many people think. In approximately 25% of the wrongful convictions overturned with DNA evidence, defendants made false confessions, admissions or statements to law enforcement officials.

The electronic recording of interrogations, from the reading of Miranda rights onward, is the single best reform available to stem the tide of false confessions.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/fix/False-Confessions.php

An exasperated trial judge recently told a police witness: “If you’ve
got audio and videotape there, I think you ought to use it. I don’t know
why I have to sit here and sort through the credibility of what was said
in these interviews when there’s a perfect device available to resolve
that and eliminate any discussion about it.”12

Detectives
with reservations became solid supporters after receiving training and
observing firsthand the benefits of an indisputable record.
“Recordings protect our ability to do our jobs. They have proven
beneficial to law enforcement, and ease public concern about how our
officers treat people who are in police custody.”

ME:Below notions about recording from local agencies. The Feral Bureau of Investagtion must certainly have protocols as to recording interogations.


Stockton, California Police Department — We observed the
same kind of apprehension as when cameras were put in patrol cars.
Now the recordings are accepted and valued.

Broward County, Florida Sheriff’s Office
observing and being involved in interrogations
I see how the use of video is much better than the old fashioned
method. . .
Many experienced officers said they would not consider
returning to non-recorded sessions,

Maricopa County, Arizona Sheriff’s Office — Every
detective should want to have a record of his questioning sessions.”

Butte/Silver Bow, Montana Law Enforcement Department —
“We would never go back to unrecorded statements

Mesa, Arizona Police Department — “Electronic recording of
custodial investigations has raised our level of sophistication in
interview and interrogation techniques.”

An experienced detective in Nevada said, “Recording is the
greatest thing since canned beans,” and another from Indiana
described recording custodial interrogations as “the best law
enforcement tool in recent history.”15

Law enforcement departments in the United Kingdom (England, Wales, Scotland
and Northern Ireland), Ireland, Canada, Australia and New Zealand record custodial
interviews in serious felony investigations. See the United Kingdom’s POLICE AND
CRIMINAL EVIDENCE ACT 1984 (Tape Recording of Interviews) Orders 1991
(Northern Ireland has an equivalent 1999 Order); see also Ireland’s CRIMINAL
JUSTICE ACT, 1984 (Electronic Recording of Interviews) Regulations, 1997. Police
departments we contacted in the United Kingdom and Ireland echo the endorsements
we received from United States agencies – emphatic support for recording as a
valuable law enforcement tool. Canadian and Australian authorities concur. See
ALAN GRANT, THE AUDIO-VISUAL TAPING OF POLICE INTERVIEWS WITH SUSPECTS
AND ACCUSED PERSONS BY HALTON REGIONAL POLICE FORCE ONTARIO, CANADA
(1987) (prepared for the Law Reform Commission of Canada); see also Wayne T.
Westling & Vicki Waye, Videotaping Police Interrogations: Lessons from Australia,
25 AM. J. CRIM. L. 493 (1998).

http://www.innocenceproject.org/docs/Police_Experiences_Recording_Interrogations.pdf
 
  • #324
quote from the main thread:



I'm wondering when he made the statement that he didn't have even one american friend. maybe he found out his bestie was selling smoke to his younger bro (betrayal)

leaving money/smoke behind makes little sense, unless it's viewed as "unclean"


I too believe it was about the victims being pot dealers who sold in the past to Jahar, and once both brothers radicalized they saw those small time dealers as people who provide weakness/evil in the community and are Infidels eyes of Allah.

I believe this was an initiation of sorts.

I believe that Tamerlan encouraged Jahar to carry out the murders and that Jahar wanted to prove his allegiance/submission to Islam. I believe Jahar also was proving to Tamerlan that he was devoted to the same extremist jihadist beliefs.

Jahar would be showing by leaving the drugs and money on the victims, that he was surrendering those things to his past and had sacrificed 3 infidels to prove his allegiance to Radical Islam. The victims are a sacrifice to demonstrate the brothers seriousness and everlasting promise to submit to Allah and abandon all iniquity as well as destroy the bringers of iniquity.
 
  • #325
Was hoping that the FBI or law enforcement would come up with damage control over the long weekend and release, or at least leak, some information about Todashev. The idea that a person could be as friendly as TT was with Brendan Mess, and then kill him in cold blood for cash, is hard for me to grasp. If DT wasn't involved with the triple murders, Todashev might be - or might have been - the only person with knowledge of the event.

Shooting a key witness is bad form. Law enforcement needs to come out with a statement.
 
  • #326
And who knows, we heard that Tamerlan changed after he was not admitted to fight in the Olympics on the behalf of America bc his immigration status was haulted, or so he told people.

What if Tamerlan couldn't compete really bc he failed a drug test and tested positive for marijuana?

Would he harbor resentment toward his dealer or friends who encouraged him to smoke/dealt him the pot?

Would Jahar also think they were "bad influences" on Tamerlan?

All IMHO.
 
  • #327
And we also find that while Tamerlan was overseas in 2011 (before the murders), the minister of sports for Dagestan was Assasinated. And Yes there is a Platnikov connection as well. (along with the twin bombings in Dagestan and the railroad bomb).
 
  • #328
And who knows, we heard that Tamerlan changed after he was not admitted to fight in the Olympics on the behalf of America bc his immigration status was haulted, or so he told people.

What if Tamerlan couldn't compete really bc he failed a drug test and tested positive for marijuana?

Would he harbor resentment toward his dealer or friends who encouraged him to smoke/dealt him the pot?

Hi, 2Hip2BSquare... I've constructed a partial timeline in order to make sense of these convoluted events. Apparently, in Feb. 2010 TT barged into a competitor's dressing room and tried to intimidate the boxer and his trainer (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/28/us/shot-at-boxing-title-denied-tamerlan-tsarnaev-reeled.html). The trainer complained that TT wasn't a citizen and shouldn't be able to compete in the National Golden Glove Competition, the rules having recently changed.

TT married Katherine Russell in June 2010. Anzor, the father, went back to Dagestan around April 2011, separating from his wife. (Not sure of the divorce date.) At about the same time that Anzor and Zubeidat were falling apart, TT was all buddy-buddy with Brendan Mess, and helped him and his girlfriend move into their apartment (http://www.wgbhnews.org/post/waltha...thon-bombing-probe-florida-fbi-shooting-death). He apparently wanted to learn MMA and sparred with Mess in the Wai Kru gym, in his back yard and in some other gym.

I think at some point, Erik Weissman moved in with Mess, having been busted in January and a lot of money (around $20K) and drugs removed from his apartment by the police. Don't know when Weissman moved in, or the extent of the relationship. Weissman and Mess had talked about partnering in a big new operation, a "grow house". Mess told Christopher Medeiros about it but I don't have the link right now.

About 3 days after Mess told Medeiros about his plans, Mess, Weissman and Teken were murdered. If Weissman had had $20K cash in his apartment earlier in the year, how much do you suppose Mess might've had laying around? Another example: in May of 2011, a big drug bust in Watertown reaped law enforcement $700K and a bunch of gold bars (http://www.justice.gov/usao/ma/news/2011/May/MadaratiSafwan.html).

You can buy Mercedes and make a lot of trips to Russia with that kind of money.
 
  • #329
  • #330
Basically, there has been a huge effort to industrialize the N Caucussus into a tourism/hospitality cluster. There was a business deal on part of the Chinese, Russians, Italians, and some Scandanavian based investors.

Apparently, the Putin was upset that the project became grossly over budget - and he blamed this overspending on Dagestani officials.

I feel said much of the funds from global investors intended for the project actually were taken by the Russian's and reappropriated to difference Russian "perogatives".

One wonders if the Russian's covered this misappropriation of investor funds by blaming the overspending/lost funds on the Dagestani officials being financially irresponsible/incompetent.

I believe that Russia could have contracted Platnikov or Tsarnaev to kill that Dagestani sports minister. Russia made the Dagestani leader of that project step down around this time as well, though that leader claimed it was at his own will in order to appease Putin.


I think it was because the Minister of Sports was heavily involved with the building of the tourism towns/hotels that would play a huge role in accommodating global Olympic spectators for the 2016 Olympics.

I believe the Russians neglected to provide us proper intel on Tsarnaev bc they had a connection to the Russian called assasination against the Dagestani Minister of Sports. And releasing that intel on Tsarnaev might implicate Russia in the assasination of that Sports Minister.

I read that the suspects responsible for the assasination and "railroad bomb test" in Dagestan ended up in Moscow at one point at the end of their trip.

Russia also is trying to find a cheaper route to transport/cultivate a gas trade with China as China will not agree to have Russia as its supplier unless they bring down the cost of their gas. So in order to bring down that cost without losing price point revenue, the Russians want to reduce the cost of transportation.

Funny enough, the area of that proposed tourist cluster would provide the Russian's with the neededtrade route to make their gas transport process cheaper and More efficient - allowing them to reduce the cost of the gas to China and bag China as their natural gas consumer.

NEVER trust the Russian govt. in this day and age.
 
  • #331
Hi, 2Hip2BSquare... I've constructed a partial timeline in order to make sense of these convoluted events. Apparently, in Feb. 2010 TT barged into a competitor's dressing room and tried to intimidate the boxer and his trainer (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/28/us/shot-at-boxing-title-denied-tamerlan-tsarnaev-reeled.html). The trainer complained that TT wasn't a citizen and shouldn't be able to compete in the National Golden Glove Competition, the rules having recently changed.

TT married Katherine Russell in June 2010. Anzor, the father, went back to Dagestan around April 2011, separating from his wife. (Not sure of the divorce date.) At about the same time that Anzor and Zubeidat were falling apart, TT was all buddy-buddy with Brendan Mess, and helped him and his girlfriend move into their apartment (http://www.wgbhnews.org/post/waltha...thon-bombing-probe-florida-fbi-shooting-death). He apparently wanted to learn MMA and sparred with Mess in the Wai Kru gym, in his back yard and in some other gym.

I think at some point, Erik Weissman moved in with Mess, having been busted in January and a lot of money (around $20K) and drugs removed from his apartment by the police. Don't know when Weissman moved in, or the extent of the relationship. Weissman and Mess had talked about partnering in a big new operation, a "grow house". Mess told Christopher Medeiros about it but I don't have the link right now.

About 3 days after Mess told Medeiros about his plans, Mess, Weissman and Teken were murdered. If Weissman had had $20K cash in his apartment earlier in the year, how much do you suppose Mess might've had laying around? Another example: in May of 2011, a big drug bust in Watertown reaped law enforcement $700K and a bunch of gold bars (http://www.justice.gov/usao/ma/news/2011/May/MadaratiSafwan.html).

You can buy Mercedes and make a lot of trips to Russia with that kind of money.

Brilliant timeline!

Everything I listed in my last post above happened when Tsarnaev was in Russia for all that time.

I noticed something as I checked your timeline.

I'm sure Tsarnaev went over to Russia and traveled to Dagestan to see his father. He had to of. Why would he come back from seeing his father with even more intense Islamic extremist views? Was Tamerlan's way of bonding with and "impressing" his dad?

What is your opinion?

It's all so dysfunctional.
 
  • #332
Well, that's one of the things that's interesting about making a timeline. TT went to Russia BEFORE his dad and mom went back. The story that he went there to help his dad is therefore misleading.

9/11/2011: Brendan Mess, Raphael Teken, Erik Weissman murdered in Harding Av., Waltham, apt.; 10th anniversary of Sept. 11 attacks

1/12/2012: TT went to Russia (Chechnya first??) and later Dagestan; wife Katherine and baby stayed with Zubeidat

3/2012: TT arrived in Dagestan

5/2012: Anzor returned to Makhachkala, Dagestan

6/13/2012: Zubeidat charged with shoplifting from Lord & Taylor's in Natick, MA (http://www.businessinsider.com/the-mother-of-the-boston-bombing-suspects-reportedly-arrested-2013-4)

7/14/2012: Plotnikov killed by Russian forces in Makhachkala, Dagestan

7/17/2012: TT left Dagestan to return to U.S.; arrived July 17

(7?)/2012: Zubeidat returned to family in Russia, AFTER TT and Anzor left U.S., and "shortly after" TT returned to U.S.

I don't have time to include all links now but may come back and edit.
 
  • #333
Ah yes! Someone kept posting the date they were murdered as being in 2012, not 2011. That's why I got confused! My apologies! Ok that definitely put me off track. That's amazing how one piece of misinformation can screw up ones overall theory! I'm going to keep studying your timeline for sure!

But I do find it strange Anzor and Tamerlan at one point were around Dagestan at the same time that those attacks happened as well as Platnikov's death.
 
  • #334
Seems very coincidental that TT jumped a plane back to the U.S. 2 days after Plotnikov was killed in Makhachkala, and Makhachkala is where Anzor lives, and TT was presumably staying. He left without getting his Russian visa, which was one reason relatives (I think) had said he'd gone back to Russia.

So did it get too hot for him there, or too discouraging? Did Zubeidat talk him into coming back to his wife and daughter? She was caught shoplifting June 13 (just found the date - http://www.businessinsider.com/the-mother-of-the-boston-bombing-suspects-reportedly-arrested-2013-4) and "her life was falling apart" and she wanted to return to family.

Regardless, TT found another way to act out his narcissistic pathology besides fighting in Chechnya.
 
  • #335
Seems very coincidental that TT jumped a plane back to the U.S. 2 days after Plotnikov was killed in Makhachkala, and Makhachkala is where Anzor lives, and TT was presumably staying. He left without getting his Russian visa, which was one reason relatives (I think) had said he'd gone back to Russia.

So did it get too hot for him there, or too discouraging? Did Zubeidat talk him into coming back to his wife and daughter? She was caught shoplifting June 13 (just found the date - http://www.businessinsider.com/the-mother-of-the-boston-bombing-suspects-reportedly-arrested-2013-4) and "her life was falling apart" and she wanted to return to family.

Regardless, TT found another way to act out his narcissistic pathology besides fighting in Chechnya.

Your insight based on evidence is flawless. And I'm so happy you noticed TT left 2 days after Platnikov was killed. I believe things did get too hot, as you rightly put it.
 
  • #336
I read the same thing. TT was just always kinda quiet and kept to himself within the group. He liked to be around but he wouldn't say much.
I think everyone questioned everyone for a time there, it was just so suspicious and such confusing circumstances.
I had a couple conversations one on one with a few friends of mine and they mentioned Tam but then it was dismissed.
Even now a few people don't think he had anything to do with it.. We still don't have any real evidence. Its all speculation.

So to answer your question I think only in hindsight..JMO
Or..............we have the alledged Orlando confession wherein the brother and ex wife indicated that he was being asked about bombing only - triple never mentioned by either one.???
 
  • #337
Seems very coincidental that TT jumped a plane back to the U.S. 2 days after Plotnikov was killed in Makhachkala, and Makhachkala is where Anzor lives, and TT was presumably staying. He left without getting his Russian visa, which was one reason relatives (I think) had said he'd gone back to Russia.

So did it get too hot for him there, or too discouraging? Did Zubeidat talk him into coming back to his wife and daughter? She was caught shoplifting June 13 (just found the date - http://www.businessinsider.com/the-mother-of-the-boston-bombing-suspects-reportedly-arrested-2013-4) and "her life was falling apart" and she wanted to return to family.

Regardless, TT found another way to act out his narcissistic pathology besides fighting in Chechnya.
I posted links earlier. It is my understanding that older was not doing well in for lack of a better term terrorist boot camp. Canadian guy was more advanced (teacher)> they both knew Russia authorities were looking into them.

So IMO, when Canadian was killed by them, it would make sense older would fear he would be next and his mentor killed.

The last thing I would do is go get a passprot when authorities just killed a group of folk, I might be next!

I have always felt he left here never planning on coming back here , but above mentioned events happened and changed everything about plan.

Also, IMO, crucial to remember that his dream was to be a boxer and was rejected solely becasue he was not AMeircan - he was , by all accounts very kileed.
 
  • #338
Okay, so:

-Who gets murdered over selling pot?

- If it were about say, a drug deal gone bad, why would drugs and $5000 be left behind?

- But lets say it was: Would a drug dealer kill three people in such a violent way? Would he bring someone along to help?

- What are the odds that three people have their throats slit on the 10 year anniversary of 9/11 by two people... and they just happen to be friends with a pair of murderer terrorists who talk a lot about 9/11?

Scary.
Bingo IMO
What are the odds that three people have their throats slit on the 10 year anniversary of 9/11 by two people... and they just happen to be friends with a pair of murderer terrorists who talk a lot about 9/11?

Scary.
 
  • #339
Or..............we have the alledged Orlando confession wherein the brother and ex wife indicated that he was being asked about bombing only - triple never mentioned by either one.???

Its too suspect to even consider until we have more plausible information. A tactic that LEO uses is misleading the direction of questioning so that they might distract you while they are really looking for something else.

I read in a couple of articles that he implicated himself by "making a series of discriminating comments about the murders" whatever that means? But its just hearsay and bad form to kill the witness. I still have a feeling there are other people involved they probably know about and are hopefully questioning right now..
 
  • #340
I still have a feeling there are other people involved they probably know about and are hopefully questioning right now..

Hope so. The silence is deafening.
 

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