MA MA - Rapheal Teken, 37, Eric Weissman, 31, & Brandon Mess, 25, Waltham, 12 Sept 2011

[time]

Humm never thought about suicide by cop interesting.............he pretty well did not have anything , probably in his view, to live for..............

Well, I sure would hate to think of living in prison the rest of my life - although, I don't know if that would be the result based on any involvement in the Waltham case.

 

[CARIIS]

I'm not surprised that an agent would shoot to kill anyone he deemed an immediate threat. In terms of firearms training, an FBI agent, just as a police officer, is not trained as a sharp-shooter, to try to disable or disarm a threat, but rather to aim and fire at the kill-zone, to eliminate the threat to his life or anyone else's on the spot, at that instant. If you grab a potato peeler and charge a police officer, she can and very likely will shoot to kill you. She will not squint, stare, do a double-take, try to discern if what you are holding is a lethal knife or a potato peeler. If you brandish it like a weapon, you will be treated as though you have a weapon. IT had a flip-out, violent history. He is strongly suspected of and ready to confess to a triple murder ( in addition to previous criminal conduct); he is connected to two known terrorists
and his body itself is a weapon. He grabs something it appears he might use as a weapon and he uses a table to slam an agent into the wall. That is all it takes folks. Protocol. At that moment, an officer of the law does have the right and the duty--and is trained--to act as judge, jury, and executioner. Most members of LE never want to draw their weapon and are very proud if in the lifespan of their career they have not had to. Once drawn, and it must be a split-second decision, either the threat extinguishes itself, and makes that clear to the officer, or it is extinguished. You can debate the practice/protocol, but it is one that's held to across the boards, so nothing unusual here in its application.

Allegedly
Ready to confess to a triple murder

 

[CARIIS]

The significance of connecting the assasination of the Dagestan Minister of Sports to Tsarnaev/Platnikov might lay in the fact that they might have been trying to knock him off for not confirming their Immigratiom status with their adoptive countries (US/Canada).

In Dagestan many young people are forced into radical fringe groups because they took bribes for education and other formalized institutions. In order to pay off those bribes, they perform assassinations/terror attacks for funding. Once the bribes are paid off, the young men go back into secular Dagestani life.

So I've wondered,

Was there some bribe the minkster of sports engaged in with Tsarnaev/Platnikov that he did not honor? did the minister of sports go back othree promise to ensure Platnikov/Tsarnaev could complete in global sports competition?

Or

Because the Olympics are to be held in the N caucussus region soon, were Platnikov/Tsarnaev paid by the kremlin to knock off the Dagestan minister of sports? To ensure Russia have more control over the sports ministry of the N caucuses during the Olympics? Would they be promised a position in competing for Chechnia, Dag, or Rus if they helped take out the sports minister?

Ive wondered...so many possibilities.

Interesting notions...NOW all that part of this I can understand it taking forever to figure out, but the number of bullets in someone ...............

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Interesting notions...NOW all that part of this I can understand it taking forever to figure out, but the number of bullets in someone ...............

Do you think also there was some sort of jealousy on TT part against the 3 victims in MA?

If he couldn't compete internationally because of his lack of citizenship, he could have harbored deep resentments towards fighters he knew who had a defined citizenship that they could represent in fighting competitions. Maybe he resented that they were able to make money by selling some pot and still were able to find legitimacy in their community/state/country.

Imho

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I honestly think after TT and Platnikov went through so much to try and gain a legitimate spot in their sport, only for Platnikov to die, TT resented when he got back home the people who "had it easy". Last post I promise

 

[katydid23]

I'm not surprised that an agent would shoot to kill anyone he deemed an immediate threat. In terms of firearms training, an FBI agent, just as a police officer, is not trained as a sharp-shooter, to try to disable or disarm a threat, but rather to aim and fire at the kill-zone, to eliminate the threat to his life or anyone else's on the spot, at that instant. If you grab a potato peeler and charge a police officer, she can and very likely will shoot to kill you. She will not squint, stare, do a double-take, try to discern if what you are holding is a lethal knife or a potato peeler. If you brandish it like a weapon, you will be treated as though you have a weapon. IT had a flip-out, violent history. He is strongly suspected of and ready to confess to a triple murder ( in addition to previous criminal conduct); he is connected to two known terrorists
and his body itself is a weapon. He grabs something it appears he might use as a weapon and he uses a table to slam an agent into the wall. That is all it takes folks. Protocol. At that moment, an officer of the law does have the right and the duty--and is trained--to act as judge, jury, and executioner. Most members of LE never want to draw their weapon and are very proud if in the lifespan of their career they have not had to. Once drawn, and it must be a split-second decision, either the threat extinguishes itself, and makes that clear to the officer, or it is extinguished. You can debate the practice/protocol, but it is one that's held to across the boards, so nothing unusual here in its application.

GOOD post. Very well written and thought out.

You are correct about the automatic protocol that requires a Law Enforcement officer to respond with equal force to any kind of attack. And if they were interviewing a murder suspect they would most likely respond with lethal force.

It is drilled into them from the first day of the academy. It becomes an automatic response to assume that the attacker is going for their gun. Only possible response is to take them out first.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I'm not surprised that an agent would shoot to kill anyone he deemed an immediate threat. In terms of firearms training, an FBI agent, just as a police officer, is not trained as a sharp-shooter, to try to disable or disarm a threat, but rather to aim and fire at the kill-zone, to eliminate the threat to his life or anyone else's on the spot, at that instant. If you grab a potato peeler and charge a police officer, she can and very likely will shoot to kill you. She will not squint, stare, do a double-take, try to discern if what you are holding is a lethal knife or a potato peeler. If you brandish it like a weapon, you will be treated as though you have a weapon. IT had a flip-out, violent history. He is strongly suspected of and ready to confess to a triple murder ( in addition to previous criminal conduct); he is connected to two known terrorists
and his body itself is a weapon. He grabs something it appears he might use as a weapon and he uses a table to slam an agent into the wall. That is all it takes folks. Protocol. At that moment, an officer of the law does have the right and the duty--and is trained--to act as judge, jury, and executioner. Most members of LE never want to draw their weapon and are very proud if in the lifespan of their career they have not had to. Once drawn, and it must be a split-second decision, either the threat extinguishes itself, and makes that clear to the officer, or it is extinguished. You can debate the practice/protocol, but it is one that's held to across the boards, so nothing unusual here in its application.

He could have even said something that made them think he was an imminent theat to not just one agent, but multiple agents.

Thank you for this insightful post. I agree.

 

[SophieRose]

He could have even said something that made them think he was an imminent theat to not just one agent, but multiple agents.

Thank you for this insightful post. I agree.

A threat to two or more armed agents. That sounds like a James Bond movie.

 

[bessie]

Mod Note: If your post has been removed it's probably because you linked to an unacceptable source, i.e., a blog. Limit your sources to mainstream media (MSM). Links to most, if not all, local media coverage of the murders can be found near the beginning and throughout the thread

Also, please remember the 10% copyright rule. You can copy and paste snips from MSM articles, but no more than 10%, and a link must be included.

This thread is about the brutal murders of three victims: Brendan Mess, Erik Weissman, and Raphael Teken. Don't forget it.

Thanks.

 

[claudicici]

I honestly think after TT and Platnikov went through so much to try and gain a legitimate spot in their sport, only for Platnikov to die, TT resented when he got back home the people who "had it easy". Last post I promise

No keep posting !!! This is very interesting

 

[claudicici]

Does anyone know how long BM and TT were friends? Maybe he "befriended" him for a reason.It seems like he did not really have any friends.Maybe he was getting close to him to find out some information,contacts or something like that? And when he had the info he needed it was time to execute them?

 

[claudicici]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/23/u...an-tied-to-tsarnaev.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&
"“So Tamerlan says they have dope, they rip them off. Tamerlan says, ‘They can identify me, so let’s kill them.’ And they kill them,” the official said."
Makes no sense at all,they always had dope and it was left behind anyways.....

 

[time]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/23/u...an-tied-to-tsarnaev.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&
"“So Tamerlan says they have dope, they rip them off. Tamerlan says, ‘They can identify me, so let’s kill them.’ And they kill them,” the official said."
Makes no sense at all,they always had dope and it was left behind anyways.....

This is apparently the story IT told. I don't think it is the whole story even if it is true, but I don't find it that difficult to believe.

I think there was a lot more money and pot involved than was found at the scene. It's difficult to speak in hypotheticals since we don't know if this is really the story, or a good version of the story, IT told investigators... unfortunately. I think there could be some other motive AND that they decided to steal Mess' money and drugs as a part of that, IDK. I think it is possible they got caught in the act or they always intended on killing them (or, like a movie scene, one person got out of control).

On the other hand, a lot of people get murdered over drugs for various reasons... too numerous to list and that may be the a huge unknown to us right now.

Mess and Co. were in the process of growing their business ... that seems to be a key piece of this puzzle to me. I think also that several of these guys did not have any jobs and hadn't had any jobs. Money has to come from some where. And, I guess it's possible TT/DT/IT wanted funding for more than basic survival.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Apparently they did let permanent residents compete at the "Tournament of Champions" and just changed the rules so that enraged TT probably even more.There was no way he could have made it into the Olympics if he couldn't even compete at a National Tournament.

"From one year to the next, though, the tournament rules had changed, disqualifying legal permanent residents — not only Mr. Tsarnaev, who was Soviet-born of Chechen and Dagestani heritage, but several other New England contenders, too. His aspirations frustrated, he dropped out of boxing competition entirely, and his life veered in a completely different direction."
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/28/u...-tamerlan-tsarnaev-reeled.html?pagewanted=all

Thank you. This has helped me piece some very important info together. So smart!!

 

[time]

Does anyone know how long BM and TT were friends? Maybe he "befriended" him for a reason.It seems like he did not really have any friends.Maybe he was getting close to him to find out some information,contacts or something like that? And when he had the info he needed it was time to execute them?

Well, there sure are some strange dynamics, aren't there? Mess's GF getting along well with TT and convincing Mess to move.. she and TT have religion in common. Mess' friends are Jewish and TT is becoming more radical ... they are making a ton of money selling drugs and making a big move on the business end. It sounds like TT may have been dissed in his own homeland and they thought his version of Islam was strange. Both TT and IT had wives that converted for them (I think, getting confused here), both had women that worked but they didn't. TT (and maybe IT) were talking big about being so devout, but in reality was not observant in many ways. And so on.

Perfect storm?

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Have we all forgotten the best herb comes from Afghanistan?? Don't ask me how I know this...

Who has access to overseas black market cash schemes (drugs, arms making/dealing, extortion)?

TT

Moo Moo MOO!

 

[SophieRose]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/23/u...an-tied-to-tsarnaev.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&
"“So Tamerlan says they have dope, they rip them off. Tamerlan says, ‘They can identify me, so let’s kill them.’ And they kill them,” the official said."
Makes no sense at all,they always had dope and it was left behind anyways.....

Some media have reported that TT thought the victims would go to police and identify them which didn't make sense. But maybe the three victims were middle men, brokers, operating for a larger party. That's the only thing that would make sense, as sellers and buyers of illegal drugs wouldn't go to LE.

 

[katydid23]

Some media have reported that TT thought the victims would go to police and identify them which didn't make sense. But maybe the three victims were middle men, brokers, operating for a larger party. That's the only thing that would make sense, as sellers and buyers of illegal drugs wouldn't go to LE.

I think they were more afraid of the three going to their suppliers and identifying them. They would have to do that to explain why the pot ands the $ was gone. And the cartel would viciously track them down, imo.

 

[Just K]

Someone asked about the length of time TT and BM knew each other. They were a few years apart in age at the time of the murders but TT and BM went to the same Cambridge HS at the same time. Maybe they met there before BM moved from Cambridge to Waltham.

http://www.wickedlocal.com/waltham/...e-natives-mourned-after-brutal-Waltham-murder

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Russian narcotic trade routes for Cannibis trafficking:

Source countries:
Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgystan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan


Destination countries:
Canada, China, Europe, Japan, Republic of Korea, US


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Russia