GUILTY MA - Rebecca Riley, 4, dies of drug OD, Hull, 13 Dec 2006

[LinasK]

It sounds to me that you are giving the parents an "out" for this.

I am clearly in minority when I place the blame squarely on the parents shoulders.

They knew what they were doing, it is clear. Whenever the child knocked on the door or cried, she was given another pill so the parents would be incovenienced with having to raise their children.

Abuse of the medication to keep the children in a catatonic state is not the doctors fault, it is the parents for choosing to over-medicate their kids.

Although I do agree that diagnosing bi-polar disorder in a toddler is gross negligence, the bottom line is that this was child abuse....and there is no reason to be making excuses for the parents....they killed their own child!

I agree with you. This case is outrageous! They didn't bother to see what was wrong with the little girl, just give her another pill to shut her up!:furious: :furious: :furious: :behindbar

 

[southcitymom]

Cheetah you are correct in that these drugs have not been approved for children.

I am absolutely disgusted reading of this case. I can't get a Dr to prescribe meds to my autistic son.
My hubby was reading of this case over my shoulder and he thinks its the Dr's fault.
After listening to his arguement I tend to agree. In a nut shell ... He basically said that not all parents are as proactive as you and I cheetah.
I could not even imagine not researching any procedure or medication given to my child but as he pointed out very many people whatever a Dr says or does is like the words of God.
And go totally unquestioned.
He also mentioned that it is Highly likely that this girls parents themselves were not only undereducated but possibly bordered on mental retardation.
All they may have known is that this medication made her behave. I am not justifying their choice to over medicate but I think its the DR at fault here.

I find it disgusting that a 2 yo would be diagnosed as being bi-polar and I think it was Tez above who said her teens were diagnosed the same...

I ask what toddler or teen is NOT bi-polar?? Its simply how everyone is at that age not a disorder.

I'm with your husband. Though I think the parents bear an obvious responsibility, I think it's highly likely that they are simple people who didn't know how to control their child and who probably never thought they could harm the child giving her prescribed drugs.

I place more "blame" on the doctor - simply due to the outrageous diagnosis. Hope his license gets yanked and he quacks off into quackdom....

 

[dr dona]

There are some children that actually have
ADHD and do benefit from meds. The goal is to help them stay focused in school. Interestingly, if you look at the med doseage curves vs their action- it takes a lower doseage to assist with attention- very high doses sedate the children (ie make them catatonic ) and curb the hyperactivity but their attention goes kaput. Thus, we usually use much lower doses of stimulants now. If children respond to these lower doses the effects can be almost miraculous.
I also have a bipolar child- she's 25 now. She does take medication but she was diagnosed and treated by a great psychiatrist when she was 16. She required inpatient treatment for this and anorexia/bulemia. She darn near died. She was on Depakote for rapid cycling bipolar but is now on Lamictal and doing well. Meds can be helpful but they can't be overprescribed. Therapy is also needed. And, yes- I was in therapy also to help me cope and to help my daughter.

 

[Opie]

dr. dona--
It seems you have "walked the walk" and know whereof you speak. That is a whole different story and unfortunately a more rare one.

 

[lavonne]

I think it's highly likely that they are simple people who didn't know how to control their child and who probably never thought they could harm the child giving her prescribed drugs.

So, who's to blame:

Not the parents, according to most people in this thread....even though the father has a rage disorder, and was also awaiting trial for molesting his step-daughter in 2005....perhaps this was his way of sedating the girl to make it easier for himself???? Just a theory, but a plausible one. Oh, but he is a simpleton, so that excuses his behavior?

What about the Walgreen's Pharmacist who kept filling the prescriptions, even though it wasn't time? Even though Carolyne lied when she kept coming up with new excuses as to why the scrip had to be filled numerous times before the supply was to run out. (Water got in the bottle, and the other time she lost an entire bottle...right). Oh and when the doctor tried to control this by lowering the supply from 30 days to 10 day supplies per scrip, Carolyne just doubled up and went to Walgreens one day after the other.

The Department of Social Services, who had been called and also believed that everything was A-OK with the medication and dosages? Even though they had tried to make visits to the Riley household and Carolyne had "resisted and evaded" them.....surely Carolyne knew what she was doing was wrong, or why else would she not want them to visit?

The teachers and adminstrators at Rebecca's school that noticed that Rebecca's lethargic behavior and did nothing? Rebecca's mother consistently explained away Rebecca's catatonic state as lack of sleep.

What about Rebecca's uncle and his girlfriend who lived with the Riley's while all of this was happening, surely they must have some blame to cast their direction, even though the night Rebecca died, her uncle found Rebecca choking on her own vomit, kicked on the parents door and yelled at them to take her to the ER. But instead, mommy gave her another pill. So, certainly the uncle is to blame too.

I am sorry, but I don't see anyone here that is to blame but her parents. They killed her....period. Being a simpleton is not an excuse for murder...nor is it an excuse to ignore your child's obvious struggle for life in the hours before their death.

"The medical examiner said Rebecca died a slow and painful death. She said the overdose of Clonidine caused her organs to shut down, filling her lungs with fluid and causing congestive heart failure."

 

[reb]

sounds to me like a classic case of another greedy, unethical psychiatrist taking complete and shameless advantage of a couple who are clueless and not too bright... in order to make a buck or two.

sorry, but you can't diagnose a TWO AND A HALF YEAR OLD with bipolar disorder.. much less ADD. sorry--- that is complete BS-- and i ain't buyin' it.

 

[czechmate7]

My daughter takes Clonidine .... I can get her script maybe a couple of days in advance (if we are going out of town) but I don't understand how they were able to fill the script day after day?? Didn't the insurance co question???? The doctor making the comment about the overdose killing her was too bizarre..Why continue to prescibe this medication if you suspect any substance abuse on the parents part?
I'm with Lavonne....it seems EVERYONE failed this little girl.
The parents need to be put behind bars and the docs license taken away!

 

[pedinurse]

I've practiced Pediatrics for 27 years and have never diagnosed or treated a child of this tender age with either of these two disorders!!!
All two year olds are active, autonomous and their favorite word is "NO"!!
It's normal!!! If this age child is overly aggressive I refer the parents and child for an evaluation- usually its the parents that need to learn parenting skills. The child needs Time Outs- not spankings etc. These parents were lazy and wanted to shut the kid up!!!! Most 2 yr olds need redirection when they are misbehaving.
They need praise for good behavior. Time outs are usually reserved for biting, hitting others etc. You can't sit on your hindend and scream NO at a 2 year old for everthing he does!!!

what was this guy thinking? i mean, the article says that his decision was partially based on family history and a history provided from the mother but STILL. Geez! this guy must have really been lacking in normal development of young children. I also wonder how pushy / manipulated mom is due to the fact she was able to get so many people to do these things (the doc to diagnose and prescribe, the pharmacist to continue to refill even though he complained, ect.)

 

[pedinurse]

Cheetah you are correct in that these drugs have not been approved for children.

I am absolutely disgusted reading of this case. I can't get a Dr to prescribe meds to my autistic son.
My hubby was reading of this case over my shoulder and he thinks its the Dr's fault.
After listening to his arguement I tend to agree. In a nut shell ... He basically said that not all parents are as proactive as you and I cheetah.
I could not even imagine not researching any procedure or medication given to my child but as he pointed out very many people whatever a Dr says or does is like the words of God.
And go totally unquestioned.
He also mentioned that it is Highly likely that this girls parents themselves were not only undereducated but possibly bordered on mental retardation.
All they may have known is that this medication made her behave. I am not justifying their choice to over medicate but I think its the DR at fault here.

I find it disgusting that a 2 yo would be diagnosed as being bi-polar and I think it was Tez above who said her teens were diagnosed the same...

I ask what toddler or teen is NOT bi-polar?? Its simply how everyone is at that age not a disorder.

It's called "off label" prescribing and it's very commonly done. It is hard to get medication testing in children to make sure that a drug is completely safe and effective. So, clinical trials in little ones are hard to come by. The risk is really great when you're dealing with children. SOOO... use of many, many common drugs used in kids everyday is actually off label prescribing. We'd have very little to use / work with re: medication for children if there wasn't some off label prescribing for drugs. It is because of the "using kids for experiements" factor.
I just don't understand how she could have been diagnosed with ADHD at 2 and bipolar at 2. I mean - come on! From what I learned (and I am NOT a dr. of psychiatry in any sense) you can't even really evaluate for ADHD until AFTER four years of age. And that's really pushing it!
I think that these parents just didn't want to deal with their children and wanted them medicated. Rings familiarly of the benadryl OD case we had a few years ago to me. Literally.

 

[pedinurse]

sounds to me like a classic case of another greedy, unethical psychiatrist taking complete and shameless advantage of a couple who are clueless and not too bright... in order to make a buck or two.

sorry, but you can't diagnose a TWO AND A HALF YEAR OLD with bipolar disorder.. much less ADD. sorry--- that is complete BS-- and i ain't buyin' it.

Here's the thing though.
The two older children have also been diagnosed with ADHD and bipolar and are on the same meds.
DO you think that this doctor drug this child in there to be evaluated?
No.
The parents did. They wouldn't have presented at the phyiscian's office if they didn't want something done about what they felt was abnormal behavior.

Depending on where they are from and the situation in the community, he may have been the most qualified and accessable provider to treat these individuals. I am not releasing him from liability here - but the doc isn't in this alone.

 

[OneLostGrl]

This is just unreal!! Bipolar & ADHD in a 2 yr.old?!?! Clonadine given to a 2 yr old baby! The doctor who "diagnosed" this baby should lose his license to practice medicine and the parents should be locked up for life!

I just wish that adults who honestly have Bipolar would put a lot of thought into it before they have children. The disease is genetic and if the parent has Bipolar, their biological children have a 60% chance of having it as well!

This is such a sad story, it makes me feel sick inside..

 

[angelmom]

There is blame to go around. And yes, I've even heard of infants recently being diagnosed with ADD. The doctor may be a whack job, but she's not alone.

http://www.dyslexiaa2z.com/newa2z/ADHD/ADHDInfantCheckList.aspx

ADHD Infant Checklist
Often distressed:

Extreme restlessness.
Poor sleep patterns.
Difficult to feed.
Excessive thirst.
Constant thirst.
Dry skin.
Frequent tantrums:

Screaming.
Head banging.
Rocking the cot.


As for the pharmacist, it is so hard to know. A good friend of mine, M, has a mother who has been abusing her meds for bi-polar disorder for years. M says she can remember as far back as her teen years that her mother went to multiple doctors, had multiple scrips. Now that it is computerized, she said her mom can come up with the best BS in the world for why she needs more meds. Last time she came to visit she said she left it home. M searched mom's luggage and purse...no meds...finally agreed to take her to the pharmacy. Of course, when mom got home...no meds. What do you do? She can't just drop off them. M has called mom's doctors, called the psychiatrist. Mom has been inpatient multiple times. They can't control this woman.

I'll bet the parents in this are abusing their meds too. Maybe even taking some of the kids' stuff. That would explain a lot. Or maybe the other kids are taking it. Also, people who are this screwed up DO have things happen like water getting in the bottle or dropping them down the sink more frequently than the rest of us.

 

[Boyz_Mum]

http://www.adelphia.net/news/read.php?id=13553927&ps=968&cat=&cps=0&lang=en

This is an article from Friday, March 23, 2007- it seems to have more details about this horrible situation. I don't know if it's allready been posted, looked but didn't see it. I am so mad at the whole situation, I can't even see straight!

 

[angelmom]

This poor baby's life sounds like a nightmare.

But, in defense of some of the people involved, it sounds like the school and the pharmacist were all asking questions. They met with the doctors and were reassured. A teacher has no business making a medical diagnosis - I had that pounded into my head about ADD years ago - or questioning one. As a teacher I was specifically instructed not to make any comments about the parents' decision about whether or not to medicate their children.

Even social services was involved, but too little too late. The parents sound like they are to blame, and crappy parents, but also mentally ill and stupid from the sound of it. The doctor warned them, started restricting their access to the meds when she got suspicious, and it wasn't enough.

What the article says about early intervention is a valid point. No one wants to slap a label on a young kid, but look at autism and how that mindset has helped change the lives of those families. Granted, it isn't drugs, but it is a similar way of thinking.

 

[southcitymom]

My daughter takes Clonidine .... I can get her script maybe a couple of days in advance (if we are going out of town) but I don't understand how they were able to fill the script day after day?? Didn't the insurance co question???? The doctor making the comment about the overdose killing her was too bizarre..Why continue to prescibe this medication if you suspect any substance abuse on the parents part?
I'm with Lavonne....it seems EVERYONE failed this little girl.
The parents need to be put behind bars and the docs license taken away!

This is true - she slipped through so many cracks of people and medical professionals who had a hand in her care - parents, extended family, doctor, pharamcists, social workers, school workers. Very very sad.

And even with all the opinions I have read regarding early intervention and other physicians making such diagnoses at this age, my opinion remains that it is insane to diagnose a 2 and 1/2 year old with ADHD and/or Bipolar and then put the child on medication. If this is SOP in the med/psych world, it shouldn't be. Not at 2 years of age. Ever. I don't think I am capable of being convinced otherwise. It's criminal, IMHO. And my FIL is a psychiatrist so I have a little personal experience with these things.

 

[southcitymom]

ADHD Infant Checklist
Often distressed:

Extreme restlessness.
Poor sleep patterns.
Difficult to feed.
Excessive thirst.
Constant thirst.
Dry skin.
Frequent tantrums:

Screaming.
Head banging.
Rocking the cot.

I know SO many children - my own and my sister's (that's 5 right there) included - who had these issues as infants. And they are FINE now. It's quack medicine to think you can make such a diagnosis of an infant based on these guidelines. It boggles the mind...

 

[angelmom]

I know SO many children - my own and my sister's (that's 5 right there) included - who had these issues as infants. And they are FINE now. It's quack medicine to think you can make such a diagnosis of an infant based on these guidelines. It boggles the mind...

I was thinking the same thing. Trust me...I was NOT defending this diagnosis, just saying that this doctor is not flying solo.

 

[Boyz_Mum]

This poor baby's life sounds like a nightmare.

But, in defense of some of the people involved, it sounds like the school and the pharmacist were all asking questions. They met with the doctors and were reassured. A teacher has no business making a medical diagnosis - I had that pounded into my head about ADD years ago - or questioning one. As a teacher I was specifically instructed not to make any comments about the parents' decision about whether or not to medicate their children.

Even social services was involved, but too little too late. The parents sound like they are to blame, and crappy parents, but also mentally ill and stupid from the sound of it. The doctor warned them, started restricting their access to the meds when she got suspicious, and it wasn't enough.

What the article says about early intervention is a valid point. No one wants to slap a label on a young kid, but look at autism and how that mindset has helped change the lives of those families. Granted, it isn't drugs, but it is a similar way of thinking.

I wish that all teachers were like you~ I have many friends whose children were subject to teachers that actually seemed to bully the parents of a rambunctious child. In one case a teacher told a parent, "Your kid needs medication!" IMO, the child was indeed rambunctious but it wasn't that hard to redirect him either... using his excessive energy in a useful manner rather than condemnation might have been a bit more helpful.

I do feel that the doctor in this case should be brought under very much scrutiny. I realize the article states that the doctor warned the parents of what the result of too much medication was but why didn't the doctor cut off the supply and report these kids as being in possible danger?

Early intervention can be a good thing in some cases, as you noted with autism. I guess I only wish that medicating children at such young ages wasn't quite so commonplace in our society. I never met a two and a half year old who didn't have tantrums at times, I have never had an infant that didn't show signs of restlessness at times and can't figure out this diagnostic criteria (above post) doesn't fit nearly every child ever born?

And thanks to all of you who have shared your personal opinions and personal experiences. Maybe with a bit more awareness in our midst, tragedies like this one can be prevented.

 

[southcitymom]

I was thinking the same thing. Trust me...I was NOT defending this diagnosis, just saying that this doctor is not flying solo.

Oh I wasn't trying to attack your post, angelmom....I think we are on the same page!

 

[pedinurse]

There is blame to go around. And yes, I've even heard of infants recently being diagnosed with ADD. The doctor may be a whack job, but she's not alone.

http://www.dyslexiaa2z.com/newa2z/ADHD/ADHDInfantCheckList.aspx

ADHD Infant Checklist
Often distressed:

Extreme restlessness.
Poor sleep patterns.
Difficult to feed.
Excessive thirst.
Constant thirst.
Dry skin.
Frequent tantrums:

Screaming.
Head banging.
Rocking the cot.


As for the pharmacist, it is so hard to know. A good friend of mine, M, has a mother who has been abusing her meds for bi-polar disorder for years. M says she can remember as far back as her teen years that her mother went to multiple doctors, had multiple scrips. Now that it is computerized, she said her mom can come up with the best BS in the world for why she needs more meds. Last time she came to visit she said she left it home. M searched mom's luggage and purse...no meds...finally agreed to take her to the pharmacy. Of course, when mom got home...no meds. What do you do? She can't just drop off them. M has called mom's doctors, called the psychiatrist. Mom has been inpatient multiple times. They can't control this woman.

I'll bet the parents in this are abusing their meds too. Maybe even taking some of the kids' stuff. That would explain a lot. Or maybe the other kids are taking it. Also, people who are this screwed up DO have things happen like water getting in the bottle or dropping them down the sink more frequently than the rest of us.

That list is just - odd. Those can be signs of many problems - some as simple as dehydration and feeding problems!